IF IT'S NOT LOVE THEN IT'S THE POLL THAT WILL BRING US TOGETHER - ILM Artist Poll #72 - THE SMITHS - RESULTS THREAD

If any kindly mod could change the url to one I give them that would be great

had a feeling both HOH and LTB would place in a top 5 at the expense of the one of the studio albums. pleased that that is not the case.

The debut was my favourite for a while too, I had it at #2 in the end though.

It would have been 81 ballots if I hadn't been too preoccupied to submit a ballot. Damn, we could have broken the record!

had a feeling both HOH and LTB would place in a top 5 at the expense of the one of the studio albums. pleased that that is not the case.

― Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, March 2, 2016 1:26 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Isn't this premature pleasure? There are three spots left and I thought fandom was generally down on Meat Is Murder as an album

fandom was generally down on Meat Is Murder as an album

now that is crazytalk. Every song on MiM is a gem, save for the title track, and that one at least has cow mooing sounds.

When I was listening back over their discography the other week, I found myself pleasantly surprised by Meat Is Murder. At one point it was my least favourite of all their studio albums, but now I'd probably rank it second behind The Queen Is Dead.

Same. I was disappointed by it at the time, but I dug it all when relistening last week (except the title track).

Even stranger for me, is that when I listened to 'How Soon Is Now' with fresh ears, it regained a power for me that I thought was lost years ago. I honest-to-god thought at this stage that I was thoroughly fucking sick of it - at least, that's how I felt about it for years. But no, turns out I'm not. Amazing how some tracks can regain a potency after a lengthy break from hearing them.

Dan i haven't encountered that myself, i hope that's not the case. it's my #1.

Ha, me too. The first Smiths I ever heard was Hatful of Hollow. Each song was "this is good...THIS is good..." and then, with "How Soon Is Now," "THIS IS AMAZING." Listening again recently, yep, same feeling.

xp

When I was listening back over their discography the other week, I found myself pleasantly surprised by Meat Is Murder.

yeah i had the same experience. everything kinda rules except the title track. i do have a lot of affection for the s/t though, despite some kinda bad songs and vocals and production. strangeways is still weirdly my favorite

I didn't come to MIM until a few years ago because in my youth it sounded like dog shit on cassette and couldn't get past a few of the vocals. I've now had the bass line of "Barbarism Begins at Home" stuck in my head for 72 hours.

I saw a couple shows by a Smiths covers band eons ago (the Nguyens) and was always disappointed that Barbarism was the one song they confessed they couldn't do

(also to-date that is the only Smiths bassline I've ever learned how to play lol)

I've said it before, but I think the debut album is a mostly wonderful collection of material, although far from their best produced and recorded. Also, a bit baffling to put 'Reel Around The Fountain' as an opening track, although at the same time it's difficult to figure out where else it could have gone without making the album feel ballad-heavy. It just strikes me as an odd way to open a debut album, really.

Yeah, 'Barbarism Begins At Home' is fantastic, one of Rourke's best basslines easily. There's footage of them playing it at a gig in Germany on Youtube and when the track breaks down to just the bass and drums, Marr takes off his guitar and begins to shimmy around onstage, dancing with Moz.

As a slab of white funk I'd take it over anything and everything released by Level fuckin' 42, without a doubt.

bassline has kind of a Bernie Edwards' feel to it, a bit of that disco stair-stepping 8th note thing

altho now that I think about it none of it is 8th notes is it? lol

That Barbarism live video and the The The vs. The World live video of Giant, also featuring Johnny Marr dancing across the stage, are probably my two favorite Marr moments.

Also, a bit baffling to put 'Reel Around The Fountain' as an opening track

nah this is my favorite thing about it

There's footage of them playing it at a gig in Germany on Youtube and when the track breaks down to just the bass and drums, Marr takes off his guitar and begins to shimmy around onstage, dancing with Moz.

at 26:07
https://youtu.be/2Y7YnL9SPjs

You guys/gals all failed if Reel Around the Fountain doesn't take this thing.

3. LOUDER THAN BOMBS (compilation album, 1987)
1398 points | 40 votes | 11 first place votes

I like 'Reel Around The Fountain', but it's my least favourite opening track of theirs. You'd think that they'd open their debut with something with a little more power to it, like they would later do with 'The Headmaster Ritual' and particularly 'The Queen Is Dead' ...

one thing I love about HOH is the position of "Reel Around The Fountain"

I think that there's something discombobulating about making 'Reel Around The Fountain' the opening track of the album, but in a good way. the debut was the second Smiths record I listened to after Louder Than Bombs and I remember being surprised by how eerie and strange the whole album was compared with the later stuff. it makes less of an impact for me on HOH, sandwiched between two other ballads

xp They can do power from time to time but it's not what they are about. RATF is a way more appropriate opening track for them.

Oh yeah, I agree that the debut is quite an eerie record in places: 'Suffer Little Children', 'The Hand That Rocks The Cradle'... 'Pretty Girls Make Graves', even. I'd say a song like 'Suffer Little Children' in particular is 100% successful in providing an eerie vibe, in a way that 'Meat Is Murder' isn't.

I think that there's something discombobulating about making 'Reel Around The Fountain' the opening track of the album, but in a good way. the debut was the second Smiths record I listened to after Louder Than Bombs and I remember being surprised by how eerie and strange the whole album was compared with the later stuff. it makes less of an impact for me on HOH, sandwiched between two other ballads

I disagree strongly; HOH was the first place I heard "Reel Around The Fountain" and it was an instant standout for me, to the point where I immediately played it again once it finished. (Also, I already knew "Back to the Old House" and "Please, Please...", the latter being the first Smiths song I ever heard thanks to the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, so I knew what to expect from them.)

I voted for The World Won't Listen over Louder Than Bombs - LTB was a handy way to collect (nearly) all the non-album stuff but I think the sequencing lets it down a bit, it's never really felt like an album listen to me.

I think that there's something discombobulating about making 'Reel Around The Fountain' the opening track of the album, but in a good way

yeah, the album goes into weird and unsettling places for a debut that's also packed with singles, and this sort of sets it off in an appropriately uneasy but assured way, portending something awful but being excessively pretty about it. for years "reel" was my favorite smiths song, which i think owes a lot to how it announces that record, and also announces the smiths as a band. (at least for me. the s/t was the first record of theirs i heard)

I know that some Smiths fans count those compilations (partcularly Hatful of Hollow) as "proper" albums alongside the main 4, but I don't think I ever have. They're useful to own, though.

In the same way as, say, The Beatles' Past Masters or Yellow Submarine are useful to own, I mean.

Ah, y'see, The Queen Is Dead was the first "proper" Smiths LP I heard, and then I went backwards from there to the beginning and got Strangeways last... so after hearing the thundering opening to The Queen Is Dead, 'Reel Around The Fountain' sounded a bit soggy in comparison. I do like the song, though!

my introduction to the smiths story is incredibly bad. i read perks of being a wallflower in high school, which prominently refers to the smiths and "asleep" in particular, over and over, and i was like "i gotta check this band out!! also my zits are exploding everywhere, whoooaa, shoot i forgot to do my homework, aw man and i hate my parents but i guess i love them too!"

Also, a bit baffling to put 'Reel Around The Fountain' as an opening track

The Smiths thought this was the stand-out song in their early set - the nearest they had to an all-time classic. It was going to be their second single before the whole paedophilia controversy. It's always been used as the most obvious example of the duff production/performances on the debut album - they had Paul Carrack add some keyboard to try to liven it up. The version on Hatful of Hollow is way better (as is the Troy Tate one), but received wisdom is they never recorded a great version of it.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree that it's one of those songs they never truly nailed in the studio. It's a wonderful song, but they never really got the best out of it that they could. It's understandable that it's often cited as an example of the production flaws of the debut... the drums in particular sound terrible - I'm not so much talking about Joyce's performance, although it is quite basic and not as assured as his drumming on later releases, more the actual sound as captured by the producer/engineer. Those snares sound really feeble, and the reverb sounds as if it's there to try and cover the bad snare sound up.

Turrcan's hate for Level 42 is hilarious at this point.

not sure if any of the 'Reel..' nay sayers are familiar with the Troy Tate version. easily the best version of a song i was never a huge fan of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOZ7iXsaoeM

Aw, man. Does LTB at #3 mean MIM is going to miss out? Assumed HOH would place

Blows my mind that this band did all it did in 5 years, and that Johnny Marr was still only 23 when they broke up. (FWIW, Tommy Stinson is a few years younger than Marr!).

Johnny Marr was still only 23 when they broke up

Yeah this is incredible to me.

Yeah, it's an incredible output over so few years and at such a young age. I think Paul Weller split up The Jam when he was in his early 20's, too. If only they could have found a manager that Morrissey could put up with or found it hard to be a prick to, and there may have been more Smiths music.

Even stranger, or not, was Marr's incredible lack of ego, going on to such a journeyman career, where even when he did officially join bands (Electronic, The The, Modest Mouse, the Cribs) he seemed as much a support player as when he played session guy.

http://i.imgur.com/03Y6FcD.jpg

2. MEAT IS MURDER (studio album, 1985)
1485 points | 45 votes | 8 first place votes

The best - my number one. Every track great (including the title track). A total showcase for Marr's most inventive playing.

whoa, kind of surprised by that, even though i like MiM (it was #5 on my ballot). just kind of shocked that Hatful didn't make it!

But wait, what was number 3?

Never mind, I missed it.

http://i2.wp.com/contentdope.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/vegetarian-thanksgiving.jpg
"Let me get my paddles on your wobbly waddles ..."

Re-listening to 'The Boy With The Thorn In His Side' again, I love it how Morrissey begins singing on the second chord in the chord progression, as opposed to the first chord where you'd expect the singing to start.

wasn't able to participate in this but thanks for organizing! I'm on tracks 77-75 and they are already awesome.

Tracks 50-48 I mean

ugh

i missed this

never got used to the fact that how soon is now is so loved, likewise with ask

son list would like thusly

20 miserable lie (peel sessions)
last night i dreamt
this night
what difference (hatful)
this charming man (hatful)
barbarism
boy with the thorn
headmaster
stop me
rusholme
nowhere fast
handsome devil (hatful)
london
rubber ring
some girls
still ill (hatful)
bigmouth
i know it's over
asleep
1 there is a light

and out of the albums/comps

hatful of hollow is probably my fave, followed by queen is dead and meat is murder

song*/look*

Just noticed that the Smiths' Complete, which I bought as mp3s and assumed was... complete, doesn't include a few songs! I just heard "Wonderful Woman" for the first time and it's a very pretty song. Maybe not top 20, but certainly top 50

Here is my very consenus-y ballot.

This Charming Man
Ask
William, It Was Really Nothing
Panic
The Boy With a Thorn In His Side
Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want
Reel Around the Fountain
Bigmouth Strikes Again
Hand in Glove
There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now
Is It Really So Strange
How Soon is Now?
Cemetry Gates
What Difference Does It Make?
Girlfriend in a Coma
Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others
Girl Afraid
Frankly Mr. Shankly
Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before

While waiting for the kettle to boil earlier I realised the main riff from What Difference Does It Make is the theme tune from HOW with the beat on a different place in bar.

What is HOW?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XK0RImTvh0

Now soon, is HOW!

Oh wait, it's come back to me now! Haven't thought about that programme for 30+ years!

Fred Dineage is our local news report presenter, so I get to think about HOW! fairly often.

I missed this. People don't like Strangeways nearly enough - I'm with Morrissey and Marr in thinking Last Night I Dreamt is their best song - but god bless Euler for putting A Rush and a Push at #1.

1. Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others
2. I Know It’s Over
3. There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
4. Rubber Rin
5. Asleep
6. Shoplifters Of The World Unite
7. Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want
8. Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Know
9. This Charming Man
10. How Soon Is Now
11. Panic
12. Ask
13. Bigmouth Strikes Again
14. A Rush And A Push And The Land Is Ours
15. The Queen Is Dead
16. William, It Was Really Nothing
17. Girlfriend In A Coma
18. Nowhere Fast
19. Oscillate Wildly
20. London

Can anyone recommend some good Smiths live shows from the MiM and QiD tours? Also, were they known as a particularly good live act? Never saw them although I was a fan at the time, regret it now.

Nevermind, I got it (Thank Your Lucky Stars, LA 1986; Madrid, 1985)

I think there's a proshot video of that Madrid show on YouTube.

Thanks, brother

I have been listening to the Spotify playlist constantly at work since this countdown and think it's driving me a little batty :)

Coyness is nice!

And do you think you've made the right decision this time?