down *the road
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Monday, 29 February 2016 14:03 (eight years ago) link
I was wondering, if Gira did publicly admit to rape would he be at risk of prosecution even if Grimm didn't want to pursue that option? would it be possible to prosecute him without her involvement or would she need to make a complaint to the police for that to happen, even if he had made a public confession?
― soref, Monday, 29 February 2016 14:07 (eight years ago) link
mm.. no.
― Mark G, Monday, 29 February 2016 15:09 (eight years ago) link
mm.. wrong.
― Three Word Username, Monday, 29 February 2016 15:59 (eight years ago) link
Yeah I get that my hypothetical has never rolled out that way before but that's my point. If other women come out with similar stories, though, he's fucked.
― just1n3, Monday, 29 February 2016 17:38 (eight years ago) link
oh yeah, that's truee.
― Mark G, Monday, 29 February 2016 18:37 (eight years ago) link
true.
Larkin has a new song out about survivors of abuse, released today. http://larkingrimm.bandcamp.com/track/i-dont-believe. With Martin Bisi and Tony Visconti.
― dlp9001, Monday, 29 February 2016 19:50 (eight years ago) link
Martin Bisi... That's interesting
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 29 February 2016 20:31 (eight years ago) link
yeah bisi goes way back to the 80s with gira right?
― François Pitchforkian (NickB), Monday, 29 February 2016 20:42 (eight years ago) link
Yeah produced Swans, Angels of Light
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 29 February 2016 20:48 (eight years ago) link
i played a show with bisi once, pretty awful music
― flopson, Monday, 29 February 2016 21:03 (eight years ago) link
I guess I know him more as a producer never heard good music
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 29 February 2016 21:40 (eight years ago) link
I kept wondering if jarboe would have anything to say but nothing yet
― nomar, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 15:13 (eight years ago) link
I'm pretty sure that Jarboe wasn't there the night that Gira did/didn't rape Larkin Grimm, so I'm not exactly sure what she'd have to say. I would like to point out, though, that Larkin has a new song out on Bandcamp that everyone should listen to.
― dlp9001, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 15:16 (eight years ago) link
jarboe has alluded to "solidarity" with michael on her fb.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 17:42 (eight years ago) link
I hate when people do that. You have no idea what happened Jarboe . Pledge solidarity privately in these instances.
― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 17:48 (eight years ago) link
i mean its her own personal fb page..
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 17:48 (eight years ago) link
IYou have no idea what happened Jarboe
not unlike a lot of the posts on this page!
― stirmonster, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:01 (eight years ago) link
Nobody here is a (relatively) public figure either
― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:05 (eight years ago) link
― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:48 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
So public solidarity is OK as long as its with the accuser and not the accused. Got it.
― Wimmels, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:21 (eight years ago) link
i think you're overcorrecting by sneering at the statements made by a possible rape victim
― nomar, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:22 (eight years ago) link
Xpost sure if you wanna strawman what I said
― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:23 (eight years ago) link
people wonder why rape victims don't come forward sometimes, i wonder if it has anything to do with people not remaining neutral or supporting them, but rather implying that they're liars, sometimes implying they may be doing it for attention. maybe some of them don't want to be psychologically traumatized a second time.
― nomar, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:26 (eight years ago) link
"I'm a feminist, guys! Except when someone I like is accused of doing something bad, then women are clearly attention-seeking lying whores".
― emil.y, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:28 (eight years ago) link
Otm.
Like I'm not saying Jarboe should be mum but pledging solidarity comes across as "I support my friend in the face of these horrible made up lies". Similar to Rashad re: Cosby.
Probably not what is meant but it's how it could be read.
― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:29 (eight years ago) link
Xpost
"hmm i was wondering what jarboe thinks of all this"
*jarboe posts something*
"stupid jarboe i hate when ppl do this! ppl in the public need to stfu!"
smh
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:30 (eight years ago) link
xp "I'm a critically-thinking person, guys! Except when someone I don't know accuses someone else I don't know of doing something bad, then I'm ready to take sides immediately based on speculation, conjecture, and my own personal biases."
― Wimmels, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:31 (eight years ago) link
I believe I will stay off the internet for a few days until this whole thing blows over
you, like 5 days ago
jfc stfu
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:40 (eight years ago) link
i couldn't possibly imagine why women hesitate to speak out about sexual abuse, jeez, i have no idea why that might be
oh wait, this thread
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:41 (eight years ago) link
it's fucking revolting
WRETCH
New song out today, dedicated to all the survivors of abuse. Recorded with Martin Bisi and Tony Visconti.
http://larkingrimm.bandcamp.com/track/i-dont-believe
― dlp9001, Tuesday, March 1, 2016 2:31 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
impeccable timing
I guess art really is higher than morality
― Wimmels, Tuesday, March 1, 2016 2:06 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― nomar, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:42 (eight years ago) link
cool guy
sorry but knowing multiple people who survived abuse and assault (including one of my best friends, both her and her sister being assaulted while young by their mom's boyfriend, one of whom was too scared to speak up bc the other wasn't believed by anyone for quite awhile) i find comments like that infuriating to the extreme.
― nomar, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 18:43 (eight years ago) link
swans bros are the worst bros
― qualx, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:05 (eight years ago) link
not that it's any different anywhere else just ugh
swans bros suck thats tru
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:07 (eight years ago) link
Um Kurt yr conflating nomar and me
― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:14 (eight years ago) link
you guys are "people" im just talkin bout "people"
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:17 (eight years ago) link
neanderthal is technically our ancestor
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:20 (eight years ago) link
lol
― anglos with derpy phasis (wins), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:21 (eight years ago) link
a swans bro defriended me on fb for posting about the Death in June Nazi thing ... but that's just one dude
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:22 (eight years ago) link
when we try to talk about these issues swans bros want to quiet us
― anglos with derpy phasis (wins), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:24 (eight years ago) link
xp kurt - swans bro was briefly in a band with our mutual friend whose birthday is today
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:26 (eight years ago) link
― sarahell, Tuesday, March 1, 2016 1:22 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
is there some new thing or just the same thing that's been going on for the past 30 years?
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:26 (eight years ago) link
many xp If you're referring to me, I'm not a "Swans bro." Like you, I am generally more inclined to believe an accuser than the accused in these situations for many of the reasons mentioned and linked to upthread. And I'm sorry if this sounds very "I have black friends," but I grew up with sisters and a strong mother, took women's studies courses in college, worked in venues that sponsored women's self defense classes, and generally consider myself a strong supporter of women's rights. I realize this isn't the same as being on the front line, necessarily, but I'd just as soon not be lumped in with fanboys and misogynists.
What I don't understand is why no one, as of yet, has answered my (very reasonable) question above, namely, why does "innocent until proven guilty" not apply here, given the fact that all we have to go on is one person's word against another person's word? Many of you here had already made up your minds the second Larkin posted her accusation.
I've seen some vicious, terrible things said about Gira these past few days, despite the fact that two (credible) women have already come out in his defense and no one else has--as of yet--come forward with accusations like Larkin's. It's also important to remember this is a man with children who are (iirc) just about internet-browsing age, and wild speculation in these instances can damage more than a music career.
― Wimmels, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:28 (eight years ago) link
why does "innocent until proven guilty" not apply here
because this is not a court of law, it's the internet
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:36 (eight years ago) link
― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, March 1, 2016 11:26 AM (12 minutes ago)
they played a show where we live.
then this happened:http://missionlocal.org/2014/11/death-in-june-protest-at-elbo-room/
― sarahell, Tuesday, 1 March 2016 19:40 (eight years ago) link