Swans: Classic or Dud?

I wasn't seeing it as an excuse for his behaviour but I did wonder if he did.

Also just thinking about Gira's inclusion in that thread about rockstars as overgrown children who need to be nannied. I hadn't thought he fit in there before, wondering now. Would have thought he had better moral sense. Glad that so far we haven't heard anything about him doing this thanks to a stupor or in another form of unconscious state, sleep-rape or something.
I take it that it is currently a given that she was asleep and he was aware of it, though that is still speculation to some degree.
Would hate to think that her lack of resistance to him made him think it was ok.

if he had privately contacted larkin, talked with her, he then could have said 'yeah, i've been a real asshole for not acknowledging that i did not have her enthusiastic consent, i realized i just took her consent for granted, refused to really listen to what she was saying and then lived in denial about my actions, male privilege etc etc, my message to other men is etc etc, i've apologized privately but now i want to apologize publicly etc etc'.

serious question, are their any cases where a public figure/celebrity has been publicly accused of rape and responded in this way? I can think of cases where there was maybe some circumspect acknowledgement from the accused that they had behaved in a less than exemplary fashion, but not enough to shift the accusation out of 'he said/she said' limbo. the closest I can think of is this:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/14/oxford-university-student-annie-teriba-resigns-posts-non-consensual-sex

I guess it would be nice to think that if if Gira responded to Grimm's fb post with a swift admission and apology that everyone would have quickly moved on to a productive discussion about these issues in general, but that seems unlikely to me tbh.

presumably his lawyer would tell him that a public admission of guilt would open the door to prosecution if larkin changed her mind down (statute of limitations notwithstanding)

down *the road

I was wondering, if Gira did publicly admit to rape would he be at risk of prosecution even if Grimm didn't want to pursue that option? would it be possible to prosecute him without her involvement or would she need to make a complaint to the police for that to happen, even if he had made a public confession?

mm..
no.

mm..
wrong.

Yeah I get that my hypothetical has never rolled out that way before but that's my point. If other women come out with similar stories, though, he's fucked.

oh yeah, that's truee.

true.

Larkin has a new song out about survivors of abuse, released today. http://larkingrimm.bandcamp.com/track/i-dont-believe. With Martin Bisi and Tony Visconti.

Martin Bisi... That's interesting

yeah bisi goes way back to the 80s with gira right?

Yeah produced Swans, Angels of Light

i played a show with bisi once, pretty awful music

I guess I know him more as a producer never heard good music

I kept wondering if jarboe would have anything to say but nothing yet

I'm pretty sure that Jarboe wasn't there the night that Gira did/didn't rape Larkin Grimm, so I'm not exactly sure what she'd have to say. I would like to point out, though, that Larkin has a new song out on Bandcamp that everyone should listen to.

jarboe has alluded to "solidarity" with michael on her fb.

I hate when people do that. You have no idea what happened Jarboe . Pledge solidarity privately in these instances.

i mean its her own personal fb page..

IYou have no idea what happened Jarboe

not unlike a lot of the posts on this page!

Nobody here is a (relatively) public figure either

I hate when people do that. You have no idea what happened Jarboe . Pledge solidarity privately in these instances.

― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:48 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So public solidarity is OK as long as its with the accuser and not the accused. Got it.

i think you're overcorrecting by sneering at the statements made by a possible rape victim

Xpost sure if you wanna strawman what I said

people wonder why rape victims don't come forward sometimes, i wonder if it has anything to do with people not remaining neutral or supporting them, but rather implying that they're liars, sometimes implying they may be doing it for attention. maybe some of them don't want to be psychologically traumatized a second time.

"I'm a feminist, guys! Except when someone I like is accused of doing something bad, then women are clearly attention-seeking lying whores".

Otm.

Like I'm not saying Jarboe should be mum but pledging solidarity comes across as "I support my friend in the face of these horrible made up lies". Similar to Rashad re: Cosby.

Probably not what is meant but it's how it could be read.

Xpost

"hmm i was wondering what jarboe thinks of all this"

*jarboe posts something*

"stupid jarboe i hate when ppl do this! ppl in the public need to stfu!"

smh

xp "I'm a critically-thinking person, guys! Except when someone I don't know accuses someone else I don't know of doing something bad, then I'm ready to take sides immediately based on speculation, conjecture, and my own personal biases."

I believe I will stay off the internet for a few days until this whole thing blows over

you, like 5 days ago

jfc stfu

i couldn't possibly imagine why women hesitate to speak out about sexual abuse, jeez, i have no idea why that might be

oh wait, this thread

it's fucking revolting

WRETCH

New song out today, dedicated to all the survivors of abuse. Recorded with Martin Bisi and Tony Visconti.

http://larkingrimm.bandcamp.com/track/i-dont-believe

― dlp9001, Tuesday, March 1, 2016 2:31 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

impeccable timing

I guess art really is higher than morality

― Wimmels, Tuesday, March 1, 2016 2:06 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

cool guy

sorry but knowing multiple people who survived abuse and assault (including one of my best friends, both her and her sister being assaulted while young by their mom's boyfriend, one of whom was too scared to speak up bc the other wasn't believed by anyone for quite awhile) i find comments like that infuriating to the extreme.

swans bros are the worst bros

not that it's any different anywhere else just ugh

swans bros suck thats tru

Um Kurt yr conflating nomar and me

you guys are "people" im just talkin bout "people"

neanderthal is technically our ancestor

lol

a swans bro defriended me on fb for posting about the Death in June Nazi thing ... but that's just one dude

when we try to talk about these issues swans bros want to quiet us

xp kurt - swans bro was briefly in a band with our mutual friend whose birthday is today