Continuing with CDs?

Rows of CD cases are ugly as hell, look well manky when they get a bit of dust in them, and take up valuable shelf space that I could be using for books.

I'm past the point where I might have got into collecting vinyl, but CDs are just another digital storage device, except one that takes up a load of space.

some quotes from a stevehoffman thread

"Painfuly bright, razor sharp and unnatural"

"When RVG started doing this series, he did some bad ones with boosted treble and narrowed stereo"

"I guess what it comes down to is personal taste. If your system is bright, these may sound shrill. However, if your system has less high frequency output, these CDs should sound phenomenal."

probably from this same thread, yeah?

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/recommended-rvg-remasters.74266/

yup

actually, no, this one: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rudy-van-gelder-blue-note-remasters.57135/

Thanks for that, brimstead...yeah, I guess my setup isn't super bright, because that's something that I usually notice immediately/can't stand about some CDs (the Miles Davis/Gil Evans box is bright/brittle to the point of being almost painful to listen to).

Haven't noticed the narrowed stereo. But I'm not a fan of super-wide stereo separation on recordings of this music, so I would prefer narrowed stereo.

ha, so if you have a great system the RVG CDs sound terrible and if you have a bad one they sound great? yeesh.
i have never had too much of a problem w/ the RVG CDs, but but for the most part that's the only way I've heard a lot of blue notes.

yeah, i don't really know but i mean... surely it's not inconceivable that music can sound ~better~ as opposed to ~not worse~??

just the whole attitude (not accusing anyone is this thread!) of music lovers going "good enough for me" is kind of a bummer... don't you ever wonder??

Sure! But there's also the issue of not having tons of cash to spend on equipment, much less pricey original blue note LPs

it shouldn't take big bucks, though! the universe is unfair

it just bugs me that certain catalogues get beautiful CD reissues, while others don't, and at this point i would assume the technology is good enough to significantly reduce the variability, but *loudness wars*, *deaf old dudes*, etc are ruining things.

time to seize the means of production i guess

like those byrds CD from the mid-90s sound amazing and they're cheap as fuck

I still love cds, def prefer them to vinyl

― marcos, Saturday, February 20, 2016 1:06 PM (52 minutes ago)

^ agreed. take up less space, weigh less, ... and now cheaper! Trying to remember the last time I actually played a vinyl record ... I have them. I acquire more from time to time. I have room to store the ones I have, though occasionally I think, "if I got rid of them, I'd have room in my bedroom for a dope comfortable chair to read in" ... but i haven't even investigated how much i could sell them for. i finally did box up most of the cd-r's of things i downloaded during the glorious years of blogs and mediafire.

i think a lot of people just thought his ears were too old. some are probably fine and some are probably not so fine. i haven't heard many of them though.

that was about the RVG CDs....

A smaller CD case's shelves collapsed in November. I've been lazy about replacing the damn thing. Should I?

"Sure! But there's also the issue of not having tons of cash to spend on equipment, much less pricey original blue note LPs"

most 70's and 80's vinyl blue note reissues sound really good. and are not that expensive. cheaper than a new cd in a lot of cases.

just the whole attitude (not accusing anyone is this thread!) of music lovers going "good enough for me" is kind of a bummer... don't you ever wonder??

― lute bro (brimstead), Saturday, February 20, 2016 4:58 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I do wonder. I made a major speaker upgrade a couple of years ago, and was floored at how much of a difference better speakers made. So I do get it -- "good enough" is a long way off from "THIS IS AMAZING."

That said, I don't want to spent a lot of time or money chasing The Ideal Master. My RVG copy of Hancock's Empyrean Isles sounds fine to me; it's also not a huge favorite, so a mastering upgrade wouldn't matter much to me.

Now, Cecil Taylor's Unit Structures (one of a handful of records I can honestly say changed my life) would need serious work -- the piano always sounded muffled to me, and I doubt that's something mastering would be able to fix. But if it could be done, I'd be all over it.

So yes, I totally get that some records could sound better, but it depends on the record. If it's something I just enjoy listening to, like Empyrean Isles, mediocre mastering won't bug me. If it's an all-time fave, sub-par mastering will definitely annoy me.

(I'm using "record" in the format-neutral sense, as in, "a record of these performances/these compositions.")

xposts for new/CD-era stuff, i absolutely prefer CDs. "underground" dance music still v much a vinyl game, though.

(i even like the late 60's/early 70's liberty pressings of old blue note stuff. they used good vinyl. sound great. but for real an 80's DMM pressing of 50's blue note stuff can be found for like 10 bucks online and they are sound super.)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2051541.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.Xblue+note+dmm.TRS0&_nkw=blue+note+dmm&_sacat=11233

(okay those aren't all 10 bucks but they pop up all over the place on the web. lots of them still sealed. 20 or under is a good deal for most of them.)

(auctions are the way to go. nobody bids on them. this record sounds amazing. 8 bucks! http://www.ebay.com/itm/HANK-MOBLEY-Straight-No-Filter-LP-on-Blue-Note-VG-dmm-/331772638421?hash=item4d3f30b4d5:g:wwcAAOSwzhVWtRP2 )

Just on the issue of what to do with empty jewel cases... try your local record shop. We have to buy them to replace broken cases on secondhand cds and would very happily take a donation of decent ones for free, so maybe other shops would too, rather than simply chucking them out?

Thanks krakow, that's a good idea. Will try there and the Oxfam with the biggest music section.

(If I ever actually get round to ordering sleeves and so on...)

I still buy (crazy cheap 2nd hand) CDs and get the occasional new release, along with a slew of promos for work, but would rather have vinyl, for the sleeve artwork and the process of putting an album on (its a fetish, but its all fetish). But I still remember, in the late 80s, before my dad converted to CD (he was a late adopter), just being hypnotised and kind of in love with how shiny CDs were and the rainbow-like shimmer when they're in the sunshine.

I've recently rediscovered my love for CDs - partly due to how cheap they've become and partly due to mp3 ennui.

I've recently rediscovered my love for CDs - partly due to how cheap they've become and partly due to mp3 ennui.

― Poacher (Chinaski), Sunday, February 21, 2016 9:00 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^^

I never really stopped buying CDs, but I've always chosen vinyl over CD when there was a choice. Now, it's usually the opposite. I can buy a Joanna Newsom LP for $25 with no download code, or I can buy the same Joanna Newsom album on CD, a new copy of Back in Black on CD, and a used copy of Tical on CD for the same price. And given that the pressing plants are backed up and vinyl isn't what it used to be and the same masters are being used and blah blah blah, why buy new vinyl when the CD sounds the same except that it eliminates those pops, ticks, and clicks? At that point, choosing vinyl becomes solely about visual aesthetics, and since I keep records in boxes (no room to display them despite owning two of those Ikea shelves), I don't give a shit about that.

Now, I don't have 'hi-fi' equipment, My receiver is an old Luxman and my speakers are JBL ES20s (I think they were a hundred bucks). I use the DVD player to play CDs and I have a Rega RP-1 for vinyl. I bet if I seriously upgraded (specifically my receiver and speakers), I might come around to vinyl again (at least old vinyl, which I still think sounds better), but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Rich man's 8 track tape forever!

i like CDs a lot. i tend to stay away from big label american stuff though cuz most of their CDs sound terrible. maria and the kids got the adele CD for christmas and i couldn't believe how bad it sounded. you turn it up and it's just mush. there is some seriously state of the art digital sound coming out now if you like experimental/electronic music though. and i have no need to own any of it on vinyl. i don't really care about new vinyl at all though there is certainly good stuff if you buy the right artists/labels.

also, if you buy a new record and it has "pops, ticks, and clicks" you should return it. unless you just treat records like crap then its on you.

I can buy a Joanna Newsom LP for $25 with no download code

fuck drag city in the eye for this bullshit

One recent major label CD I think sounds amazing: good kid maad city

I was still doing the CD thing all the time until somewhere mid last-year, when the cheap cd player/stereo system in my room crapped out, and I was too cheap to replace it. and got a decent-ish pair of headphones and realized I liked listening this way better as it's not reduced to background noise.

that and the fact that I buy most of my music as mp3s on Amazon (so they all go to the cloud), started wondering why the point of buying cds anymore. Illustrated mostly by the space waste - I just switched rooms in my condo for a new roommate and 90% of the clutter in my room were mother...fucking....jewel cases, just everywhere. threw most of them away.

Plus I tend to be careless and lose shit which is a problem I avoid on MP3. I could listen to most of this shit on Spotify but since most of what I buy is metal for bands that literally work day jobs I feel like giving them some cheddar helps (though I prefer bandcamp when I can do it - esp cos you can get nice Lossless files there).

It has basically stopped me from paying $20 for that 'uber rare' cd that is only $20 cos some asshole label guy won't reissue it or give the rights to the band to do what they please with it.

However I still get cds now and then - like Voivod were selling their new EP early at the show this week so naturally I jumped on that, and there was this one Church of MIsery album that you can't legally buy on mp3 so I wound up getting it from Amazon.

It does feel weird tho, voluntarily paying for something when I know I could have it for free with another click. guess I like knowing that if I ever do Spotify the songs the band will get a little small cheddar on top of what I already paid them for the album, as opposed to just leeching them.

I do find myself though not buying many major label albums anymore - like the Lorde album I just pulled up the Prime version and have no intent to buy even though I like it.

also haven't even bothered to try them but a lot of the cds I still have are of the 15+ years old variety, and I know that's when they're supposed to start disintegrating (if they do).

most of my oldish cds have played fine thus far. at least the ones that I didn't break in a fit of rage when I was losing on FIFA on Xbox.

Probably bought around 500 albums on CD last year, two albums in FLAC (because no CD was available), and one LP (to get the "bonus" CD that came with it). Don't have room or time for vinyl, nor much patience for clicks/pops/sibiliance; and I don't like paying money for something I don't permanently own/can't lend/can't resell. Hence, CDs, which I own somewhere around 6,000. Great format, great sound, great portability. Inferior to LPs only as artifacts to hold/frame, and I'm only interested in the music as far as all that goes.

sometimes I will buy a cd when Amazon is offering it via AutoRip and the price is comparable or cheaper than mp3 only. and then sometimes just sell the cd, though to be honest they don't have great resell value anymore unless they're a rarity. isn't like the early aughts where I could sell any damn cd for 5.99 on eBay. I couldn't even sell sealed copies of new albums for 7.99 (not major releases, lesser knowns) on two tries last month.

also haven't even bothered to try them but a lot of the cds I still have are of the 15+ years old variety, and I know that's when they're supposed to start disintegrating (if they do).

most of my oldish cds have played fine thus far. at least the ones that I didn't break in a fit of rage when I was losing on FIFA on Xbox.

― you are no man. take the balls. (Neanderthal), Sunday, February 21, 2016 5:35 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Disintegrating CDs can almost entirely be traced to a Polygram plant in West Germany that, in the 80s, didn't use the correct manufacturing process, causing its discs to deteriorate over time. This is not a fate that will eventually (or ever) befall all CDs. My oldest CD is an Italian bootleg of a 1968 Who show; it's 28 years old and still sounds great. So great, in fact, that recent-ish speaker/amp/CD player upgrades have revealed it to be a needledrop of an LP boot.

good to know! always heard it as such a truism but found it weird none of mine really had the pinpricks I had heard about. most of the playability issues have to do with normal wear and tear/scratches from poor upkeep as opposed to age.

CDR's, on the other hand, will definitely start to disintegrate after 15 years. At least that's been my experience almost universally.

Disintegrating CDs can almost entirely be traced to a Polygram plant in West Germany that, in the 80s, didn't use the correct manufacturing process, causing its discs to deteriorate over time.

did not know this, thanks, see also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_bronzing

Bronzing became a thing again in the last few years with early Blurays, most notably some of Criterion's initial efforts in the format.

i lost some good shit on cd-rs. and yeah a lot of import cds, "mastered by nimbus" bronzed and got shitty.

here in the tropics this happens

disc weevils!?

God, CD-Rs were the other thing cluttering my room...so glad to be free of them

Spotify has mostly weaned me off CDs, but I still buy the odd box and am also slowly buying up all the Italian prog titles I can find on the cheap

Disintegrating CDs can almost entirely be traced to a Polygram plant in West Germany that, in the 80s, didn't use the correct manufacturing process, causing its discs to deteriorate over time.

People keep saying this, and in fairness you did say "almost", but I've had several CDs from the mid-90s go brown/stop working, so this "it was only a specific factory in the late 80s" doesn't add up for me.

Tarfumes misremembered how long the manufacturing problem continued. If you read that Wikipedia link above, it says it continued until the mid-90s, and possibly there were similar problems with one or two other CD pressing plants besides the best-known example in the UK.

But it's not something that affects all CDs from that era, and CDs produced after that will not decay over time, provided you take decent care of them. I have hundreds of CDs from that era (from 1988 to 1993), and some even older ones from the mid-80s, and none of them have suffered from bronzing.

Any problems I've had with CDs have been caused by my own mishandling of them, such as keeping them in a full CD wallet for months... You really shouldn't do that, because if the discs constantly rub against each other they may chafe, which can result in tiny damages in the reflective material inside the disc, which will make some tracks unplayable. Unlike scratches on the outer plastic layer of the disc, the damage in the reflective layer cannot be fixed so that the CD will play again.

Throwing away all the packaging and keeping your CDs in a big plastic wallet strikes me as the worst of all worlds really.

Disc bronzing is different to disc rot, apparently. Same end result but bronzing is almost entirely associated with discs made at the PDO plant in Lancashire in the late 80s - early 90s. Of the first CDs I bought in 1986 that I still have they all seem good as new.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_bronzing