A Guy Called Gerald - Black Secret Technology vs. Goldie - Timeless

Hmm, reading that other thread, some people seem to be saying that the mixing/mastering on the 1996 version was already changed from the 1995 version... I've never understood that this was the case, I thought the 1996 version was simply reissue with some tweaking of the tracklist. Can anyone who owns both of these tell me if there's a difference in sound between them?

The 1995 version has this cover:

http://vinyl301.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/front1.jpeg

The 1996 version has a different cover, and it also replaces "Voodoo Rage" with "Hekkle & Koch" and "Touch Me":

http://buildanddestroy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/R-105517-1190750594.jpeg

The 2008 remastered version has the same cover and tracklist as the 1995 one.

Timeless just edges it over BST for me, but re: the discussion upthread you can count me in as one of the weirdos that prefers Parallel Universe to both.

― Grimes, Shoots & Leaves (Mr Andy M), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 20:09 (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

God, what the hell was I even on back then?

Non-italicised bit still stands though.

Every sleeve variation is awful. Even Master P had better album covers in the 90s. Parallel Universe and Jacobs Optikal Stairway LP are both strong contenders for best dnb statement albums from the mid90s.

also i am the sort of reprobate that will try and air guitar to 'sea of tears' so ymmv

― r|t|c, Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:30 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:D

Literally the very best thing you could do today is buy all the “Producer’s Cut Series” tracks on A Guy Called Gerald’s Bandcamp. Seems to be all 94-95 era tracks and i would say in aggregate is actually superior to BST (no “Nazinji-Zaka” or “Glok (Remix)” though).

OMG

Here's hoping he unleashes 28 gun bad boy + all those white labels/acetates

but damn thank you for the tip

28 Gun Bad Boy isn’t up there but is available for streaming on Apple Music? Odd.

Anyway I think a lot of these are in fact white label releases - e.g. I know “Kicking Da Jungle Beat” was one of the white label tracks he put out in 1994.

Probably exaggerating above about these being better than BST but it is all great and sometimes spectular - I particularly like “Beat Dis” (probably 1993?).

i was rereading this thread last night and realized i've only ever known the single disc version of timeless. correcting this atm

I need to revisit both of these. I feel like I wasn't quite ready for them in my dumbass teens.

Timeless (always the double LP version for me) would get my vote quickly but am quite interested in which version of BST stands above (presumably the one on bandcamp?). Can confirm that my CD copy is very tinny and bass lacking.

I've probably listened to LTJ Bukem's Producer 01 the most, come to think of it.

I've never managed to crack Black Secret Technology despite having had it in my collection for years. Will give it another go.

btw i would like to make it clear that anyone who would dare diss "you & me" itt is dead to me

tuomas debunked this a few years ago i guess, but i have the 2008 version of bst and i have never thought "oh this lacks bass." it is still a really weird-sounding record though

(feature not flaw imo)

The only version of BST that sounds worse than the others is the second mid-90s CD version with the weird pink-ish cover. All the versions with the original purple-ish artwork are fine, though the arrangements have always sounded a bit quiet compared to most D&B even from that era, so a lot of people keep waiting/looking for a louder version that does not and will never exist.

"You and Me" is lovely.

I think there's really no filler on the single-disc version of Timeless. I would have once put "State of Mind" and "Sea of Tears" in that category, but i'm older and wiser now.

Thinking about the D&B rankings on that Fact 90s list again. Remove the surrounding noise and it's:

BTS > Icons' 'Emotions with Intellect' > Timeless > DJ Krust's 'Genetic Manipulation' EP > Photek's 'Modus Operandi' > T-Power's 'Self-Evident Truth of an Intuitive Mind' > Source Direct's 'Exorcise the Demons.

I mean this is Fact, so go figure, but I think this ranking says a lot about weird retrospective views of 90s D&B.

Like, that Icons album is fine, but just feels really surplus-to-requirements for me, and elevating it feels like a sop to a 'real heads know' notion of the genre that gets things entirely the wrong-way-about - like, yes, the album was unavailable for ages, but arguably that's more because no one particularly needed a pretty and intricate but personality-free mid-90s jungle album at a time when the music was already pivoting to head in another direction. It's actually very much the ambition and risk of 'bad taste' that infects albums like Timeless and New Forms that makes them so valuable in the context of a genre that was primarily dancefloor/singles/DJ-mix focused.

I've come around to liking 'You and Me' and the other tracks I dismissed back in 2012 (apart from 'Adrift'), would definitely vote for Timeless today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FR0thRsgMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7w-grvkXtQ

The only version of BST that sounds worse than the others is the second mid-90s CD version with the weird pink-ish cover. All the versions with the original purple-ish artwork are fine, though the arrangements have always sounded a bit quiet compared to most D&B even from that era, so a lot of people keep waiting/looking for a louder version that does not and will never exist.

I dunno, as I mentioned upthread, to me the 2008 remaster sounds pretty much exactly like he added some loudness to earlier version.

Also, if you have both the 1995 version (purple cover) and the 1996 version (pinkish cover), does the latter one really sound different? I only own the pinkish 1996 disc and 2008 remastered disc, but I've always thought the pink 1996 version is simply a reissue of the 1995 version with a tweaked tracklist, not a remaster?

Manchester store takes a side.

https://boomkat.com/products/timeless-25-year-anniversary-edition

(last paragraph of the product description is what I refer to btw.)

These are the VIPs and mixes on the third disc.

Timeless (Instrumental)
Kemistry (VIP Mix)
Angel (Grooverider Re-edit)
State Of Mind (VIP Mix)
Still Life (VIP Mix)(The Latino Dego In Me)
Saint Darkie
Inner City Life (4 Hero's Part 2 'Leave the planet mix')
[re:jazz] - Inner City Life
Sensual

tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimelesssssssssssssssssss