Suede

Paul Nichols as in the Eastenders bloke from ages ago?

i fucking love this album, holy shit it's everything i want from music right now

sorry about swearing but omg

It's such a damn shame they can't get back over here. Everything I am hearing about the current shows has been amazing and like Maura says, what an album.

i fucking love this album, holy shit it's everything i want from music right now

― maura, Thursday, February 11, 2016 4:25 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry about swearing but omg

― maura, Thursday, February 11, 2016 4:25 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hehehehehe... no need to apologise at all! For what it's worth, this album has pretty much dominated my listening for the last couple of weeks... I've been catching up on other music and listening to old favourites, of course, but I still keep finding myself drawn to this record for yet another listen!

It is surprisingly good but after a few days listening to it regularly, I already get a bit bored.
It's my problem with Suede mk2. The compositions, even the best ones, lack depth and density.
they always seem a bit thin and superficial to me.

I wish I loved this. Trying to muster the gumption to write a longer review, all I come up with is, "Anderson's in splendid voice, the arrangements are eh."

yeah, arrangements included.
for instance I noticed that there are almost no guitar lines that are memorable and good on the whole record (even the solos after the chorus on "I don't know how to reach you" are nice but eh...). Most of the times, they're basically a rehash of the same ideas/tricks.
Overall, Anderson's voice always seems alone over some standardized Suede backing music. It lacks musical tension.
whereas most of the hooks were coming from the guitar (or even piano) on their early work.

saw them this week. band are great, new album leaves me mostly cold much like the last 4 have done. i think i've seen them too many times now to get anything out of the old songs. highlight was Obsessions oddly. not sure what the Tuesday night after-work crowd made of a film of people throwing up and killing themselves etc.

It is surprisingly good but after a few days listening to it regularly, I already get a bit bored.

I usually get "a bit bored" with most things that I listen to for a few days solid. With this record, though, there's been moments where I haven't been able to wait to listen to it or I've caught myself humming parts of it and thought "I've got to put this on immediately"

whereas most of the hooks were coming from the guitar (or even piano) on their early work.

Yeah, I completely disagree with this.

I mean, it sucks and everything that a couple of you guys aren't getting the same thing out of this record as I am, but for me this is quite possibly their 3rd best record or thereabouts, and I consider the first disc of Sci-Fi Lullabies to be an album in its own right.

Oh, as I said previously, I would agree that it's their best post-Butler album since Coming up was OK but really too superficial for me.
As for the hooks, for me, they almost all came from Butler or at least, the guitar hooks were as strong as the vocal hooks, creating the tension and making the whole richer than just a vocal melody over backing music.

Brett's lyrics are much stronger than they were on Bloodsports and Richard's playing is really the best it has ever been but for some reason I just can't get into this in a big way. When Bloodsports I couldn't stop playing it for at least a couple of weeks. This just hasn't been the same and I'm not sure why.

i'd struggle to come up with a post-Butler Top 5. Chemistry Between Us, Picnic.. By The Sea.. maybe a B side from that era. it's a crap rockist default position but after he walked they were done for. a pretty good indie band at best. i'd bet good money if most people heard the last 5 Charlatans albums they'd like just as many songs.

I don't know, I think the hooks/arrangements/(fake?) strings/everything on this album are absolutely top. I'd put it maybe number 4 on my list, too, after the first album, DMS and Sci-Fi Lullabies. It's definitely got an (intentional?) DMS vibe to it, maybe slightly less apocalyptic. Though no less dense. Anyway, I think the playing, singing, etc. is everything I'd want from Suede, especially Suede in 2016. In fact, if this was the follow up to Dog Man Star I don't think anyone would question its provenance.

i'd struggle to come up with a post-Butler Top 5.

true !
let's see...errr... I'd say : by the sea, everything will flow, europe is our playground, I don't know how to reach you... one last track... maybe trash !

In fact, if this was the follow up to Dog Man Star I don't think anyone would question its provenance.

I've actually thought about this a bit. I appreciate the new album, but if it was the follow-up to Dog Man Star it would be seen as an absolute disaster! Just so much more musically simple. I do think if this was the follow-up to the debut they could just about get away with it. The me of 1994 would've noticed it was a lot worse, but I still would've found things to like, and meanwhile there would be reviewers no doubt who'd identify the more mature/darker approach with an increase in quality.

My post Butler top five

1. Picnic By The Motorway
2. Europe Is Our Playground
3. Together
4. The Chemistry Between Us
5. Hit Me

Trash, Everything Will Flow, Simon, Sometimes I Feel I'll Float Away, Electricity, The Sound of the Streets, Snowblind, This Time, When You Are Young, Young Men, By the Sea and Let Go are all great too.

Wow "Eyeball Kicks", you really don't get Suede at all do you? Every musician matures and Brett and the guys have never sounded better to me, they're probably writing deeper stuff than they've ever done and what a great sound too.

Just so much more musically simple.

Well, considering this is exactly what we got with "Coming Up," and then it got even simpler/less good/disastrous ...

Hmm. I think it does a great disservice to Suede's work after they parted ways with Bernard Butler by calling said work "post-Butler", it's more that the early work is "pre-Oakes/Codling" - let's not forget that the current line-up of Suede have actually released more albums than the first incarnation of the band, three of which (Coming Up, Bloodsports and Night Thoughts) are very good to outstanding. After Bernard left the band, the band were just as successful if not more so commercially. It's not that the original line-up were Suede and what has happened subsequently has been some kind of "phoney" Suede, it's more that the current line up are Suede and the first two albums and the period surrounding those albums was like a prologue. A great prologue which yielded some magnificent music, but a prologue nonetheless. I'd have no trouble coming with a Top 5 at all - in fact, have a list of 25 in no order:

1. Together
2. Bentswood Boys
3. Trash
4. By The Sea
5. Beautiful Ones
6. Another No One
7. Europe Is Our Playground
8. Electricity
9. Hi-Fi
10. Indian Strings
11. Obsessions
12. You Belong To Me
13. One Hit To The Body
14. Oceans
15. Simon
16. Barriers
17. Snowblind
18. It Stars and Ends With You
19. Hit Me
20. Always
21. When You Are Young
22. I Don't Know How To Reach You
23. What I'm Trying To Tell You
24. Learning To Be
25. I Can't Give Her What She Wants

...all of which are significantly more worthwhile than pretty much anything Bernard Butler did post-Suede apart from 'Stay' and maybe two tracks he did with McAlmont.

Y'know, not trying to discredit the line-up that made Suede, Dog Man Star and the majority of the first disc of Sci-Li Lullabies, but to say that's where it ends and that there was no great Suede work after is beyond ridiculous, IMO.

...all of which are significantly more worthwhile than pretty much anything Bernard Butler did post-Suede apart from 'Stay' and maybe two tracks he did with McAlmont.

― The Dave Grohl of ILX (Turrican)

As much as I love Suede and agree that the post Butler years have plenty of great moments, Yes by McAlmont & Butler is better than anything either Suede lineups have ever done in my opinion. That song is all time.

As much as I love Suede and agree that the post Butler years have plenty of great moments, Yes by McAlmont & Butler is better than anything either Suede lineups have ever done in my opinion. That song is all time.

yeah, also the second McAlmont&Butler album (which was actually the first since the first was more of a compilation of singles and b-sides) has some fantastic stuff (Bring it Back, Beat...) and The Tears album is actually my favourite Suede related album post DMS (Night Thoughts included). It would have been a great follow-up to DMS !

It's not that the original line-up were Suede and what has happened subsequently has been some kind of "phoney" Suede

Well, it's difficult not to see post-Butler Suede as a kind of "phoney" Suede when they decided to hire a guitarist/composer to replace Butler who was COPYING his guitar playing, composing (and stage moves) !
I totally agree that it's silly (and it must be hard for them) that this incarnation of Suede which is 20y old is still compared to the first one which lasted only 5y but the thing that is even sadder and shocking to me is that all these years later, they still work within the musical frame that was set by Butler (he was making ALL the music) but with less quality/depth... It would have been more interesting if Brett hadn't tried to replace Butler with a copy and moved on in a new direction (Bowie style !)...

OTM

Well, it's difficult not to see post-Butler Suede as a kind of "phoney" Suede when they decided to hire a guitarist/composer to replace Butler who was COPYING his guitar playing, composing (and stage moves) !

When they hired Oakes, Dog Man Star was their then-new album, and they obviously needed to tour it. It would have been incredibly ridiculous to then hire a guitarist who was going to do "jazz odyssey" versions of the tracks onstage, so it makes sense to hire a guitarist who could play the back catalogue including their then-new album. Besides, while Oakes can play Butler's lines accurately, his own guitar style - and incidentally, composing style - have their own hallmarks. The way that Oakes and Codling formulate their chord progressions is understandably different to the way Butler formulated his, because neither of them are Bernard Butler. It's Brett's voice and the rhythm section that ultimately make those songs sound like Suede.

the thing that is even sadder and shocking to me is that all these years later, they still work within the musical frame that was set by Butler (he was making ALL the music)

There were four members of Suede, all of which made a contribution to the overall sound. Next, you'll be telling me that those early albums would have turned out identical if it had been Butler and three other assorted guys. The reason Suede albums sound like Suede and Bernard Butler's solo material doesn't, is that Suede records have Suede playing on 'em. From what I've heard of what Butler's done since, it would seem like most of the aspects of what people like about Suede, Butler would have gradually attempted to bland out anyhow.

It would have been more interesting if Brett hadn't tried to replace Butler with a copy and moved on in a new direction (Bowie style !)...

They tried this on Head Music and it divided fans. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Moved in a "new" direction that is, not replaced their guitar player... in any case, point to me a part of Head Music that sounds like Butler is playing on it.

I felt a bit sorry for them on The One Show last night.

i like the new one just fine but how does this band manage to get shitty muted/muffled production jobs on their records over and over?

it sounds like the drums are in the next room over on 'outsiders'

The vocals on the post Bernard albums always have way too much reverb, which is weird since Brett's voice is really great. On 'Outsiders' it seems that they've used the same reverb setting on all the instruments as well, bar the drums.

There's a repeated line in the chorus of 'No Tomorrow' that sounds like "fuck the Cylon", mainly because it sounds like the vocals were recorded in a Tube tunnel.

weird since Brett's voice is really great.

Although on the other hand he's about the only singer I can think of whose voice sounded worse after they came off drugs.

Father-in-laws verdict (watching the One Show): "Well, this is a racket".

Night Thoughts still holding up incredibly well. If you told me back in 2002 that Suede still had a record like this in 'em I wouldn't have believed you at. Astounding.

I always thought it was suspect that I picked up a 2nd hand non-promo copy of A New Morning four days after it was released

*at all, rather.

I remember going to buy A New Morning, funnily enough... I remember looking at the cover on the racks and thinking "hmm... that doesn't really look like a Suede sleeve"

it looks like it's eating the head music sleeve

btw there's a twitter account devoted entirely to lyrics of Head Music THE SONG https://twitter.com/musicinstead

deluxe coming up came out yesterday. i did not know that "europe is our playground" on scifi lullabies is a different version than the one from the trash single.

i am extremely delighted that its working title was "sombre bongos"

Yeah, it was re-recorded for Sci-Fi Lullabies... I think the band felt they'd improved upon the song from playing it live and wanted to get a better recording of the song that did it justice. The right decision, IMO, it's one of their best ever songs.

I like both versions myself! Strongly suspect I'll have to get this; it remains my favorite album of theirs, even if other albums have greater individual songs.

I still have a hell of a lot of time for Coming Up, too. Yes, it's unashamedly a big, brash pop record, but that's the great thing about it.

Been listening to the deluxe Head Music. Lots of good stuff I forgot about.

Yeah that run of B-sides in particular is underrated. I'm still amused at how "Let Go" ended up becoming a random hit in Sweden -- single was released there and everything!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQ6qBfukU4

I watched the Oasis documentary the other night, for some reason, and it really made me realize how much I never liked Oasis. The other year I watched that Blur doc, too, and I thought, hmm, I never really got into Blur, either, though I liked more of their stuff a lot more than Oasis. But Suede, Suede was the sweet spot, just what I needed, OTT arty glam punk perfect (if a sense). I watched this interview with Brett and Bernard on youtube, probably from the Dog Man Star reissue, and they made some interesting revelations. Bernard, for example, had Joy Division's Closer in mind for a lot of the album, not the sound of it, just the spirit, really. And Brett, who had never listened to Scott Walker, had been listening to a lot of Scott Walker, because some review had compared one of their b-sides to Scott Walker. So again, Walker is there in spirit if not really in sound (though they did use his string arranger).

A lot of the more obvious stuff that infuses Suede, Bernard points out it really hadn't been in the air for some time. In the early '90s, were there British bands referencing Bowie and T. Rex, let alone the Smiths (who Butler worshipped)? I don't know. It's the same way Blur and Oasis to some extent brought back the Kinks and the Beatles, or Elastica with Wire and the Stranglers and Buzzcocks and UK post-punk, just sort of opportunistically striking after several years of those acts being slightly out of favor/the spotlight. Good timing.

I've since come around to a lot of Head Music - sure, Brett being off his face most of the time probably hampered the record (especially lyrically) but now I see Head Music as an '80s revivalist record made at a time when it was painfully fucking uncool to do such a thing. In that sense, there's an argument to be made that it was, in a way, ahead of the curve.

80´s ? I had never thought of it that way !

Yeah, I don't know about that. If anything it sounds more typically '90s.