Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

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amen.

what's always amusing to me about folks who use the pistols or lydon as a crutch for bashing stuff like steely dan (or anything else) is that it's doubtful that the crutches themselves were thinking the same way. i mean john lydon was a fan of CAN, NEU!, and CAPTAIN BEEFHEART ... it's not THAT great a leap from those guys to steely dan. do these people who trot out the pistols or whatever class of '77 punk group ever really THINK?

What does this mean? Enlighten me!

Can't Buy A Thrill has been one of the things that's got me through a fairly intense last week. The great thing about them is of course you can listen to them as just a bunch of coke-raddled musos practising their licks and it's very soothing if you do.

70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

this quote does make them sound very good, sort of like summer 73

Absolutely right Gaz. Actually the only people I can remember mentioning SD specifically around the time did so in positive terms - albeit maybe as some sort of guilty secret!

"does stewart O like steely dan i wonder?"

Indeed I do.

"Haha .. actually I think I got in some stupid bitchy argument with Stewart O on that "Talking Heads vs. Steely Dan" thread (he liked TH)."

Actually I was perfectly clear that I like both bands - the point was that you didn't like TH and seemed intent on starting some stupid bitchy argument because you were apparently unable or unwilling to assimilate the possibility that I (anyone?) could possibly like both!

"Anyway, is there anything more tired and poked full-of-holes in 2004 than received punk-rock mythology"

Very true; the problem is that "received mythology" played such a huge part in the development of punk almost from the word go, that it's almost certainly impossible - and quite definitely pointless - to even attempt to separate the two.

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians.

Again that's pretty much what SD were seen as representing as far I can recall. Let's remember the crucial role that the word "IN CONTEXT" and "REPRESENTED" are playing in that sentence 'though, shall we?

"john lydon was a fan of CAN, NEU!, and CAPTAIN BEEFHEART ... it's not THAT great a leap from those guys to steely dan."

It may not be that great a leap in many respects 'tis true; but in context, in terms of what those different acts represented at that moment in time, you could have been forgiven for believing that there was a vast, yearning chasm between them.

"the worst thing abt it is that it's reduced some of us to actually 'calling sides' in this nonexistent musical-generational war"

Amen.

On the surface, you might think that because of the backup singers. But listen harder - nowadays I hear the Mothers of Invention more than anything.

Should I (or indeed my former English teachers) be pleased about that... or not?

no, honestly.

Don't you know
There's fire in the hole
And nothing left to burn
I'd like to run out now
There's nowhere left to turn

With a cough
I shake it off
And work around my yellow stripe
Should I hide
And eat my pride
Or wait until it's good and ripe
My life is boiling over
It's happened once before
I wish someone would open up the door

Don't you know
There's fire in the hole
And nothing left to burn
I'd like to run out now
There's nowhere left to turn

BLASPHEMY

People who think great craft and good chops are antithetical to "feelings" (too intellectual? not enough from the heat?) hate Steely Dan. But that's just as silly as thinking great craft and good chops are *necessary* for creating great music. You can't make rules about this stuff. Orbit makes them sound like they're Blood, Sweat & Tears, or something.

That may be true; but what seems to me to be far more prevalent is people who hate Steely Dan ascribing the reason for that hatred to a belief that great craft and good chops are antithetical to "feelings"

I will not take anyone seriously who thinks that "Babylon Sisters" is sterile and unfeeling.