Wire: i just don't get it

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why aren't they punk?

Because hstencil doesn't like punk, but he likes Wire.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like some punk, but I love Wire.

Past Pink Flag there's some stuff that isn't doctrinaire-by-the-books-musical-punk (i.e. three chords and shouting). This is a good thing! And I love Pink Flag too.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

''why aren't they punk?''

not this again.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

doctrinaire-by-the-books-musical-punk (i.e. three chords and shouting)

that's punk? a subset maybe . . .

also, julio, yes THAT again.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

wire is okay... i think PINK FLAG is by far the most over-rated of the first 3. i like colin newman's songs best. "the 15th", "map ref", "12XU".

ps: jack cole, please sign in to the new league, pretty pretty please!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

i will, gygax

also, hstencil likes "punk" if you just dont tell him it's "punk" -- see Deerhoof. (wink and a tickle for h).

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

jack I don't wanna open a can of worms here but yeah I don't think of them as punk in the "doctrinaire-by-the-books-musical-punk (i.e. three chords and shouting)" subset, as you call it. At the time of Pink Flag, that was the dominant mode. They excelled in it, but then went on to do other stuff, which is "punk" in the greater sense of the word, but not in the empirical sense.

I guess you don't want that Pagans boot after all, huh punk?

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

hstencil's just mad cuz he got booted out of the parkside lounge in 1997 for not tipping on the PBR cans for $1.25.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

dude, you are so wrong. I don't like the Parkside 'cause the owner recently told the Poodles not to play "any of that moshpit shit" (di390 to thread!).

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

um, H that was my point -- Wire is punk in the greater sense and not the narrow, cartoon sense of the narrower subset.

― jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I know jack but that was my point too!

― hstencil, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

in the greater sense and not the narrow, cartoon sense of the narrower subse

this will be useful later, methinks

i've woken up to mass madness all over ilx...wire roxx u r all gay

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

No No No No No No Mr.Suit!

I actually picked up Pink Flag by Wire a few weeks ago. I really like it.

― Andrzej B. (Andrzej B.), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Parkside Lounge rocketh.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 02:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'll defend Pink Flag to the end, but the rest of their career it hit'n'miss enough (with Chairs Missing being the only one I'd really vote more hit than miss) that I can understand people claiming they're overrated (haven't heard the new stuff). Pink Flag is punk sonics, but even from the beginning these guys were all about SOUND and FORM, they're the reason the word art-punk was invented. I mean, I don't know SHIT about Colin Newman despite despite. True sons of Eno.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 02:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, I love them. Colin Newman's _A-Z_ is outstanding, kind of a _154_ Part Two. _Pink Flag_ is definitely my least favorite of the first three, although its highs *really* scrape sky.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 26 February 2003 02:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Marcello...ahem.... Wire magazine? Never heard of it.
I was talking about Wire the group. And their appalling sleeve designer.
But then.... you knew that, didn't you?

― russ.t, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 12:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pink Flag is the only one I didn't like: electric gee-tars, grimy sounds, punk-yob sympathies.
Chairs Missing was getting good - clearer, more varied sounds, pop geometry, and of course the beautiful 'Uphill Gardener'....
154 is Magnificent - from aching and knowing disillusionment of 'I should have known better', to the sublimely eerie '40 Versions', via fury, bad dreams, pop psychedelia, insane romanticism, off-the-wall sardonic grins, calm and resigned and reassured disappointment...I can even forgive it the clattering mess that is 'once is enough'

I really like the '87 - '90 period albums: the one track I've heard from Read & Burn I was very disappointed by.

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 18:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

What does "punk-yob sympathies" mean?

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 18:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nick A - people are pretty good at disagreeing with opinions and not the person are they? Well why did you call me and Jaymc "fucking idiots"? Surely you should have phrased that "Jaymc and Chris are expressing idiotic opinions"?

Or am I taking things to seriously - or are you?

― chris sallis, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Colin Newman's _A-Z_ is outstanding, kind of a _154_ Part Two

is this still in print?? amazon seems to think not. it sounds absolutely key, anyway.

i listened to the read & burn eps on the tube earlier and stand by my claim that they're essential too.

Albums? Surely Wire are best understood as a singles band?
Mannequin / 12XU; I Am The Fly; Dot Dash; Outdoor Miner; A Question Of Degree; Map Ref 41N 93W: there aren't many acts to rival that run.

tim's v otm; this probably is the way to get into them.

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

...what's the Colkin Nrewman single from the late 80s where, on the sleeve, you see the bakcof his head in a black jacket playing with some clock/pendulum like thing? I do love that single.... was it something...."Hearing'?

― russ t, Thursday, 27 February 2003 10:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Chris, I was adopting your method of expressing yourself on purpose to try and show how annoying it is. I wouldn't say that you and Jaymc were expressing idiotic opinions, because that wasn't my problem. I disagree with your opinions, but I don't think they're idiotic. What I had a problem with was making generalized derogatory opinions with no reasons for why you felt that way, which contributes nothing to the discussion.

― Nick A. (Nick A.), Thursday, 27 February 2003 14:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

i dig them, aspecially the 154 great post-punk fun. i just don't like it when Graham Lewis sings.

― rex jr., Thursday, 27 February 2003 14:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Lewis' singing on 154 is HORRID

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 27 February 2003 16:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

It is?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 February 2003 16:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Man, I like his singing on 154!

― hstencil, Thursday, 27 February 2003 16:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

How does it much differ from his singing on any other Wire song, Tom ?
(What songs do you like his singing on)

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 27 February 2003 18:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, Graham Lewis is the Klingon of Wire, after all. From 154 and after, he tries too hard to be majestic and dark, and I can understand his singing style rubbing people the wrong way.

I love his compositions and was a big He Said fan, but man sometimes his voice on certain songs is just one big bad idea... i.e. "Ambitious"

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Is he the one droning 'rrrape' over and over in the background at the end of Reuters?

― Ferg (Ferg), Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think that's just multi-tracked Newman, but I dunno for sure.

I can't imagine Colin Newman singing "Ambitious."

― hstencil, Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

I would not like to imagine ANYBODY in Wire singing "Ambitious". I absolutely love Wire, but this song could have not existed, and I think the world would still be happy. :)

I think Lewis's vocals works better ovreall with 80s Wire.. like with "It's Beginning To And Back Again", and He Said, obviously. But I agree "Should Have Known Better" and "A Touching Display" are great.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Also, I think Lewis's vocal style was eerily foreshadowing of a lot of the New Zealand rock to come out a year after.. Gordons, This Kind Of Punishment, Pin Group, etc. (aside from the Joy Division and Fall influences of course)

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

I would not like to imagine ANYBODY in Wire singing "Ambitious". I absolutely love Wire, but this song could have not existed, and I think the world would still be happy. :)

*sniff* I wouldn't be happy!

I love "Should Have Known Better," his voice is great on that.

Hahaha, Pin Group! Love that Siltbreeze CD. Roy Montgomery sounds more like late M. Gira to me on it, but it's close enough to Graham too. Have you heard his Wire cover?

― hstencil, Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

They were pretty bad at ATP last year. Mostly drab newish material delivered in a inelegant, semi-slick, techno-metal style. Graham Lewis' mike wasn't working for the early part of the set, which might've been a blessing in disguise, 'cos I agree w/ Tom abt the horrible singing on 154 - the unacceptable face of the punk-prog crossover.

Some of the lyrics on the first three recs are exceptional - 'Ex-Lion Tamer', 'Single K.o.' etc etc.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Thursday, 27 February 2003 19:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hahaha, Pin Group! Love that Siltbreeze CD. Roy Montgomery sounds more like late M. Gira to me on it, but it's close enough to Graham too. Have you heard his Wire cover?

Unfortunately, no. I listened to Roy Montgomery a lot when every underground rock band needed to do an "Outdoor Miner" cover, so maybe I did, and it got lost along all the other Wire covers lobbed at me at the time.. heh.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 27 February 2003 23:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's actually a cover of "Used To" and it's on the singles comp. Hmm...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 February 2003 00:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

Russ T, is the Newman single yr after "Feigned Hearing"? It's on the lp "Commercial Suicide", another good Newman record. Actually, all four I have are good

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 February 2003 01:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Speaking of Newman, is there a thread anywhere to discuss all of the other side projects of Wire members between the incarnations of the group? I managed to find a copy of 8 Time by Lewis and Gilbert in the used bin the other day, and after a bit of research I just realized that Dome and Duet Emmo were also Wire offshoots (something I probably knew once upon a time).

Why don't people talk about these other projects more? It strikes me as odd that Wire is so revered (rightly) and yet most people can't be arsed to even mention this stuff most of the time, especially since a lot of it is of a piece with the more experimental Wire material.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 3 March 2003 16:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

you've all formulated some very interesting and sophisticated arguments to why one should revere the art-punk band wire
unfortunately some posters actively avoided answering the question, and although attempting to tackle some broader postulations regarding the meaning of 'punk' and the group's relationship to 'punk' which by itself would recieve merit, in this context it is sadly unwelcomed.
all in all, a well written and entertaining thread; B-

― schnell schnell, Monday, 3 March 2003 17:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

kill yourself.

― roger adultery, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 07:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, I mean you don't even like Wire

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 11:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

sixteen years pass...

Right, never mind all that..

Here is a crowd funder for a Wire documentary, one day left and close to the ummmm wire.

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/wirefilm

Have a butchers, see what happens!

― Mark G, Sunday, 8 September 2019 12:32 (four years ago) link

Christ, early ILM was insufferable...

― Soundslike, Sunday, 8 September 2019 13:13 (four years ago) link

I threw em some greenbacks. So close!

― but everybody calls me, (lukas), Monday, 9 September 2019 02:00 (four years ago) link

I like Wire in the most clichéd way (first 3 and Read/Burn/Send) but people really need to be discouraged from making music documentaries.

― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, 9 September 2019 02:49 (four years ago) link

yeesh at ppl upthread saying elastica was better

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 9 September 2019 03:15 (four years ago) link

They got there, anyway.

― Mark G, Monday, 9 September 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link

who are all these upthread losers

― akm, Tuesday, 10 September 2019 03:15 (four years ago) link

... Belle & Sebastian fans - enough said?

people really need to be discouraged from making music documentaries.

OTM. I would hope Wire might do some different with this one though.

― Boulez, vous couchez avec moi? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 September 2019 06:50 (four years ago) link

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