REM: Classic or dud?

But I had been tapping the brakes for a couple albums before that.

that band is one of my favorite finds this year, I think i've played "curry your favor" 1,000 times

― rip van wanko, Thursday, February 4, 2016 1:41 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, the debut is surely one of the greatest ever. The next two albums (Elaine MacKenzie and White Soul) are nearly as great, and while subsequent albums don't always hit the mark, there's a few amazing things on each.

green = selling out to corporate cash. but who cares. they didn't record a dud till bill split. murmur - new adventures is an epic epic run. peel back the mountain, peel back sky. stomp gravity into the floor . . . time and distance are out place here

Which ones you don't like Reggie?

every one through new adventures had something immediately captivating on first listen. i 'tried' to like the final five but they never took. can't say why, just that nothing felt like 'oh man this is awesome' as i guess i'd come to expect

A couple of things...

It seems really clear now but, even though Stipe was always the spokesperson, I can't think of any other of the big bands that was less about the individuals and more about the band than R.E.M was.

I agree, but I think it was always clear that R.E.M. were about the "collective" rather than the individuals in the band and that they operated as democratically as they possibly could. I'm not sure that Stipe was "always the spokesperson", even if he was the frontman - in the early days it seemed to be mostly Buck that was the "mouthpiece" of the band in interviews etc., or Mills.

(wasn't most of Perfect Circle written by Berry?)

That's one, and "Driver 8" is another supposedly written completely by Berry.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, February 3, 2016 8:15 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Everybody Hurts', 'Strange Currencies', 'Leave', and 'Man On The Moon' all had major input from Berry, and I think 'Can't Get There From Here', too, although I'm not 100% on that one.

My obligatory contribution to talk of late REM: Up is amazing, my favourite by them.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:45 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I like it, but I think it'd be an even stronger record if it were 3 or 4 tracks shorter. I tend to think albums that are slower-to-mid tempo tend to work better if they're shorter - you can only sustain that kind of mood for so long before it gets tiresome.

When did people start stop liking REM?

― Sam Weller, Thursday, February 4, 2016 4:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I got on board, as did many people in the UK, circa Out of Time/Automatic For The People - bought all the previous records, enjoyed them, and followed them up until Reveal, which didn't really do an awful lot for me at the time bar one or two highlights admittedly. I got back on board again with Accelerate, which may have only been a couple of albums after, but there was 7 years in between Reveal and Accelerate. I like Reveal more now than I did at the time, and appreciate more what they were attempting to go for - a really slick, summery record. Around The Sun continues to be the only R.E.M. album I out-and-out dislike.

green = selling out to corporate cash.

― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, February 5, 2016 1:51 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't think signing to Warner Brothers changed R.E.M.'s approach to their music at all, and I think that if R.E.M. had stayed with IRS then they probably would have went in the direction of Green anyhow - half of the album sounds like an extension of Document and half of it was, at the time for them, new territory. If they really wanted to sell out, they could have attempted to write a whole album of 'The One I Love's, which of course they didn't. Green doesn't really strike me as being a typical, calculated "we're on a major label now and time to sell some rekkids" album.

I actually suspect the main reason that R.E.M. signed to Warner Bros. was because Warner Bros. were able to distribute their records better worldwide - and it obviously paid off, because in commercial terms here in the UK, those IRS-era records sold next to fuck all at the time.

I always assumed REM were firmly cemented in the "pantheon," at least as far as post-Beatles/Zep rock went. Surprised that some people here wouldn't put them up there, even if they did fall off near the end. To me, growing up in the 80s/early 90s in suburbia, they were ever-present on MTV and all my friends knew and liked them. But NONE of us ever owned or heard anything before "The One I Love." It's only when I got to college that I got the first records. Are they really not name-checked much these days? I can't believe it.

Yes, it does feel like R.E.M.'s stock is at an all-time low at the moment, but I can only really put that down to timing... from the years prior to them splitting up and up until recently, there doesn't seem to be much music around that seems to be directly influenced by R.E.M., and nor are there many new bands/artists out there proudly stating that they're an influence. I suspect it'll be another few years, once the dust settles, before R.E.M.'s stock begins to rise again and you have newer bands discovering or re-discovering their catalogue.

I can see why Up would try a lot of listeners patience, but I like the length (of course that wouldn't work if I didn't like all the songs). It's like a big long night of someone pacing around their room and working through things. With some lighter and funner moments.
I love long mood pieces like that. Lycia's Burning Circle And Then Dust is 2 hours of gothy contemplation, another one of my all-time favourites.

I doubt REM compromised their music at all. Stipe said he wouldn't even budge on cover art for anything. Wasn't that a big part of why a lot of indie bands liked them so much? But I think they probably felt an obligation to play certain songs.

the 2001 Unplugged set does a lot to reveal the first couple of albums after Berry

I don't think signing to Warner Brothers changed R.E.M.'s approach to their music at all, and I think that if R.E.M. had stayed with IRS then they probably would have went in the direction of Green anyhow - half of the album sounds like an extension of Document and half of it was, at the time for them, new territory. If they really wanted to sell out, they could have attempted to write a whole album of 'The One I Love's, which of course they didn't. Green doesn't really strike me as being a typical, calculated "we're on a major label now and time to sell some rekkids" album.

― The Dave Grohl of ILX (Turrican), Friday, February 5, 2016 7:42 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree that the Warners move itself didn't change their approach, but there were incremental changes/compromises along the way. Someone in their management/at I.R.S. might've said, "You know, if you guys just enunciate on your next record, and use Mellencamp's producer, we can get you into arenas." "Hm...welp, enunciating isn't a dealbreaker, and Scarecrow sounded good..." But as Mills himself pointed out (on either Behind The Music or The Seven Ages Of Rock), bigger halls necessitate broader gestures, and I think Green was a reflection of that. Sometimes it works ("Get Up," "Pop Song 89"), sometimes it very much doesn't ("Inside Out," "Orange Crush"). But that fleet, charging dynamic/tension that made their early-80s shows so thrilling was gone forever.

Oh but Orange Crush does work.

I think both of the latter work better than the two opening tracks. And I like those!

Huh. Orange Crush may be the first REM song I flat out hated.

I think "Orange Crush" is amazing. I seen them play twice on the Around The Sun tour and to be honest I didn't enjoy it much, probably a lot of my own fault for playing their stuff too much and catching all their tv appearances but "Orange Crush" was still thrilling. "Me In Honey" was a really pleasant surprise, the highlight.

The idea that Green, my least favorite in their canon before 1998, is a sellout album is bizarre!

it's been years since I've listened to Green but I remember Orange Crush being the highlight

one of my favourite things about a lot of songs on the first few albums was all the overlapping vocal lines, shame they abandoned that around Document or so

Yeah, 'Orange Crush' definitely works - it's one of my all-time favourites, that's for sure, and I don't think it's lost its impact for me even though I've listened to it hundreds upon hundreds of times at this point.

I've got no problem with "Green," at least no more than I have with "Out of Time" or even "Document." As almost always with late REM, I love a third, like a third, and don't like around a third.

"Turn You Inside Out" is my favorite song on Green imo, has been so since 1988. tbh I like Green more than all the IRS albums save the first two.

yeah Green is great -- funny to think that "Stand" is the first REM i ever heard.

(that said, i can totally understand why a Murmur fan in 1989 would not be into the album)

yeah the first REM I heard was "The One I Love" but Green was the first REM album I got, on cassette for Christmas 1988.

I'll admit that the transition from "Turn You Inside Out" to "Hairshirt" could have been handled better (maybe by sticking "Hairshirt" on a b-side instead).

Orange Crush was a really quite intense highlight of the Green Tour show that I saw.

Green was the moment when they went full-on MTV, it felt like a big change of direction after the IRS records

yeah on Tourfilm "Orange Crush" rips, "be all that you can be... bababababbababababa", more menace than the album take

one of my biggest music regrets was missing the closing show of the Green tour at the Fox, even though I was just a sophomore in high school & would have had to get a ride from my parents from corncob county.

I don't think R.E.M. went full-on MTV until Monster, when they started making more performance-based videos. Automatic For The People into Monster was far more dramatic than Document into Green. Unless Michael Stipe dancing with a bunch of topless chicks is "going full-on MTV" ...

Always struck me how, especially given Stipe's extracurricular interest in art was/is never higher, how horrible those last 5 album covers are. The only comparison is Monster, but that in itself seems an intentionally gaudy one off.
It's as if those covers mirror the gracelessness/artlessness of REM in the 00s, even compared to the Bill Berry 90s, never mind the 80s

imo r.e.m. were never particularly great at cover art

as bad as Neil Young imo

hahaha, it's funny reading the comments on here and being reminded of seeing "can't get there from here" on MTV after it came out and thinking they had gotten so slick and MTV!

Murmur, Green, Automatic For The People, Monster and New Adventures In Hi-Fi are probably their best sleeves for me.

of all those i'd suggest murmur has a great sleeve

hmm, i think Reckoning looks great
but yeah, their 00s albums have cover art that looks like it was whipped up by a junior designer in about 3 minutes.

that's fair, and it's also true that they were showing up on MTV as early as Reconstruction

from the perspective of Athens folks who had followed them from the start, the material up through Document still felt close to home, but with Green it was clear they were changing and moving into the big time ... "Stand" in particular sounded like a song written for a video

This huge Murmur stan brought home his cassette of Green, played it, heard "Stand," was like wow, this is a pop song for the ages and R.E.M. is finally gonna be huge. Haven't changed my opinion.

"Orange Crush" and "Turn You Inside Out" sounded kind of monotone/shouty/muddy to me until I heard them live and then was like "NOW I GET IT"

xp yeah "Can't Get There from Here" also seemed written for MTV

"can't get there from here" felt like they were going for that big wall of voodoo money. even the video.

I don't think I've ever seen the video, but I didn't have MTV in 1985.

"Can't" was definitely the first time I heard R.E.M. on a big FM rock station, though.

It's the track on Fables that has aged the worst, IMO.

Honestly some of Berry's backing vocals are pretty dodgy on the early records, they add a really muddy feel to the chorus of Life and How To Live It, for example.

Yeah – Green and Fables are my least favorite pre-1998 albums.

IRS albums: Reckoning > Murmur > Lifes Rich Pageant > Fables of the Reconstruction > Document
Peak-period WB: New Adventures In Hi-Fi > Automatic For The People > Green > Monster > Out of Time
Late-period WB: Accelerate > Up > Reveal > Collapse Into Now > Around The Sun

out of time at the bottom of the peak period? aside from the opener, that record is amazing. (and yeah I include "shiny happy people", i like that song)

Yes, there's a lot that I like on it, but the gulf in quality between its best songs and its worst songs is vast and I don't think it comes together as well as an album the way the way their best albums do.

whoever dislikes "Shiny Happy People" is a disgusting savage imo

I like 'Shiny Happy People' a lot and have never understood the problem that some folks have with it.

hey now
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/5e/ac/a1/5eaca146f1fdb428d3b8aaee718b886a.jpg
xp