School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

it really confused me when i got it because it was like...how on earth did sonos not take that into account when designing their weird system?

xp

I have the older version of the Marantz mentioned near the top of the thread.

I went for this because, after selling all my high-end gear in 2012 and going with a basic separates system (10yo Sony DVD player into 30yo Cyrus amp), and then giving those up too, I wanted to start from scratch with something good but simple. The sound quality is great (basically just the Marantz into Q-Acoustics monitors and Sennheiser headphones), but there are a few niggles with it dropping off my network with some regularity - so it can't find Spotify, or my iPhone / tablet app can't find the Marantz. CD playback was essential for me (again, it would be nice here if, seeing as it's a networked device, it could do a Gracenote-style lookup and not just say "11 tracks 55:12" like a dumb CD player), but there is a cheaper model without.

It also has a useless Last.fm mode (support for that was withdrawn before I bought mine), good FM/DAB and NAS/USB/Bluetooth/AirPlay connections (the last of which I use a lot when I can't be bothered navigating Spotify via the clunky Marantz app).

As an amp, it's perfectly fine - I route the TV and MD deck in via S/PDIF, and the turntable pre-amp via analogue. I think that's about all the connections taken up, mind.

it's tempting to think there's a NAS out there that you can dump your music onto, and feed your Spotify Premium details, and it would provide a unified search/playlist interface to? with RCA out?

I'm looking to reconfigure my home audio system, hopefully in a way that also integrates with my TV. My main music source is Spotify and my main TV platform is Roku. The essential apps for me on Roku are Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Twitch, and Spotify. Unfortunately, the Roku Spotify app is pretty bad. It doesn't allow you to play from folders, only from individual playlists, and it doesn't support local files, only songs in Spotify's library. I've tried doing screen mirroring from my Android phone to Roku for Spotify, but Roku's screen mirroring is junk, it crashes a lot and pretty much disrupts my wi-fi.

I don't think SONOS is the answer to this, but I'm curious about Chromecast. My main reservations are the lack of Amazon and the concern that casting from my phone to my TV/stereo will cause similar wi-fi issues as the Roku.

I wonder if there are any players that would do the same as what the Marantz does, but also work as an bluray/net video player with an HDMI out and surround sound? I have 5.1 speaker set and I watch movies and play music through the same Yamaha A/V receiver... It feels pretty pointless to have separate systems for music and videos, but most audiophile players/receivers seem to be for audio only.

(xpost)

I have been looking at that Marantz thing for a while actually. If it had phono input I would have bought it already. But I've been in a state of indecision for a while now about whether to get that plus separate phono preamp OR vintage integrated amp plus bluetooth adapter (plus separate CD player I guess).

Oppo players might they are supposed to be great dacs

yeah it would be cool if Roku or Plex could just Handle It All, preferably through a unified search interface.

Again not to sound like I'm on the payroll but a Chromecast Audio & DAC would be preferrable to a DAC w Bluetooth adapter imo

I'm fairly clueless about these things... I have a Yamaha receiver with a supposedly good inbuilt DAC, if I plug the Chromecast Audio to the Yamaha via the optical S/PDIF (which it apparently has), would that be enough, or would I still need a separate DAC in between them?

Nope, no further DAC needed.

Thanks!

I've plugged my external hard drive into my BT router and it worked well enough to start with (basics: I was able to access my iTunes library) but every time my laptop went to sleep I had to reconnect/rediscover the drive. It was a pain in the tits. I get this with my airport express, too (in that it seems to drop off the network if not used for anything much longer than about a half hour and I have to turn it off and on again). I assume it's the low-quality of the router, unless it's something obvious I'm missing?

I'm rapidly talking/being talked into a Chromecast Audio here. Is it audibly better quality than an airport express or the same deal?

Sonos + Spotify is probably the easiest solution, but as someone who refuses to subscribe to music streaming services (it only works on Sonos if you're a paying Spotify user), I've been thinking about getting a network drive to store all my music.

I stayed at a house last summer where the owner had installed Sonos speakers all through the house, including the bathroom and on the patio outside. It was so great to be able to control the music in different rooms and to decide when we wanted to listen to the same thing throughout the house. Almost tempted me into subscribing to Spotify...

Google Music or Amazon Prime music allows you to stream and upload your purchased music and then you can stream it

Sonos is great. We collected bits and pieces second hand (including waterproof controller for bathroom) and I couldn't be without it now. The controllers all broke but they replaced them with wizzy new ones and you can control with your phone anyway. Used with one existing amplifier unit/speakers but their own don't seem that bad. Have refused to pay for Premium Spotify to use with it though, that's my main downside.

We have a sort of music server too, made life easier.

re: those people looking to integrate music and tv -- Sonos does have a soundbar (not cheap) that'll take audio from your TV and distribute it to other Sonos components, and you can set it up with a couple of the small Play:1 speakers and a sub if you want 5.1 surround. If your TV or set top box supports Spotify and something like Plex for local files you're all set (or just use your phone to control music if you don't care about a unified interface).

I look at how much it would cost to deck out our place with Sonos speakers and I look at my kids and think "I would like to feed and clothe these guys without dipping into their college fund"

I'm not sure it's necessary to deck out the place with speakers - an amp and a set of stereo speakers in the living room is great! Want sound ind more rooms? Turn it up!

Buy cheap active speakers for kids' computers - you don't need to be able to synchronize playback between rooms. It's more like a fun luxury.

well my kids aren't 2 yet so the closest they will be coming to getting computer speakers is if we buy some squeaky toy speakers

what i am really looking for is the following:
- no wires
- can stream music from spotify tablet or laptop
- sounds nice in my living room (~30m^2)

would 2x play:1's do the job?

having speakers in more rooms not really important to me. is sonos still the best fit?

If that's all you need then £30 Chromecast audio should do the job? Assuming you have speakers already, that is.

Cheap one-room solution: find a used Phillips Streamium player. They're around and they're pretty good, even if Phillips got out of the game a couple years ago.

I do have speakers & actually just bought the chromecast audio for the time being.

The reason I'm looking to replace them is that the amp+speakers are fairly large & the only place they fit in the room in an awkward position which doesn't lead to very nice sound. I can't move them to a better position without trailing wires all over the place.

xp - will check out the streamium, thx

Sonos would be the most elegant solution (assuming you have outlets near where you'd want the speakers), and two Play:1 would probably be fine in that room. If you're happy with Chromecast and don't mind a wire between your speakers, you could eliminate the amp (and the wires from the amp to the speakers) and maybe get a bump up in sound quality with a nice pair of powered speakers like Audioengine A5 for the same price as Sonos (note I haven't compared the Sonos sound w/ the Audioengine; just speculating).

there's tons of great 90s audio equipment on craiglist. people let go of totally good 90s and early 00s technics, yamaha, denon receivers for peanuts (just don't overpay for the now SUPER inflated "silver face" 70s and early 90s solid state stuff)

but i got a pair of awesome early 80s boston acoustics a30s for $80 and he had even refoamed them

I have a pair of Audioengine A5+ speakers in my living room that also handle the TV. I love the minimal aspect - the amp is built-in to the left speaker and it has plenty of input and output options. These speakers go for around $400 a pair and sound absolutely fantastic, been very happy with them and am only slightly tempted by the new HD6 ($700). I specifically chose active speakers over a soundbar because (3+ years ago) soundbars had a poor reputation for handling music.

I use a doohicky to wirelessly send the sound from my living room/TV over to another speaker (Mass Fidelity Core) in my dining room, been wondering if syncing two Chomecast Audio's would be a better option but it works now, so, meh. As I said, my setup has grown organically over the past few years so it's a mish-mash. My focus is being able to have my music follow me as opposed to having it play in multiple places at once, and I've achieved that with my BubbleUPNP/JRiver server setup - I can listen to something in the car, pause it, resume it on the Sonos, pause it, resume on the Chromecast Audio, etc.

Anyone use Chromecast Audio multi-room feature?

i got a canton dm55 soundbar for my tv recently. ideally i'd have gone all sonos but their soundbar is like 550 pounds or something, my tv is new and only cost 320 so i felt strange about spending way more on the sound. the canton was about 300- it's p great, big booming cinematic sound and seems good for music also.

this thread makes me realise how little unity i have in my setup, kitchen is two active monitors and chromecast, living room the canton dm55, bedroom a sonos, but i can control all p easily so i guess it doesn't matter.

you can create "groups" of CCAs for multiroom play but i haven't tried it

just as an example, here's craigslist today, solid Teac receiver for $30
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5417509609.html

some early 90s Polk S6 speakers $50

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5408860157.html

and a chromecast audio you've got a heck of a lot better sound than 90% of ppl do for a little over $100

i have a pretty similar set up but also threw in this Fiio dac that's the size of half a pack of smokes and costs $30

http://www.amazon.com/D03K-Digital-Analog-Audio-Converter/dp/B009346RSS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454432404&sr=8-2&keywords=fiio+dac

ug anyway I'm done shilling & Sonos is good but man I see what they charge for these little ass speakers and a I get kind of a Bose/Bang & Olafson vibe from that company

"multiroom play" indeed

I've got that DAC, too, great little thing.

I agree that with Sonos, you're paying a bit of a premium. But only a bit, and there's so much else you don't need to pay for or bother with.

Chromecast Audio + speakers you've already got is the best quick and dirty solution at this point. But we'll start to see many other affordable options on the market.

Good overview here.

So it's coming down to Sonos Connect vs Chromecast Audio for me (Mike's Last.fm issue is a dealbreaker for me). I'm assuming Sonos has proper Last.fm support, but what's its radio streaming like? Realistically I'm only going to listen to the BBC and occasionally Kiss or Rinse or something.

Dumb Chromecast audio question - if my entire library is up in the Google Play cloud, does is need to be accessed via my mobile? Is there any way I can allow my wife to search my library through her Android phone as well?

Sonos is starting to seem like the best all round option despite higher set-up costs.

Radio has worked fine for me on Sonos anytime I've used it, but I haven't done so often - others may have found problems through regular use.

I regularly use my Sonos players to listen to BBC radio 4, 5 & 6 (via TuneIn). There have been some issues with quality/reliability of the the BBC streams over the last year or so, but there was a fix at the end of last year and since then it's been perfect.

Sonos supports Last.fm, but it's not comprehensive -- it'll scrobble Spotify and your local library for instance, but not your Google Play cloud library. I've had a couple of other minor annoyances with Google Play via Sonos: when scrolling through my library it stops displaying artists midway through the "T" section (will still play them though), and alphabetizing is pretty primitive -- I haven't looked into it but I think Google Play isn't recognizing the "sort as" tag so it goes by artist's first name, and anything that starts with "The" falls under T. I tend to type the artist I'm looking for though rather than scrolling through the list so not a big deal.

I haven't had any issues with radio streaming through TuneIn.

If you want to save a few bucks on Sonos equipment I've had good luck with Best Buy open box deals. Look up the product on their website and then click "other buying options." I got my last Play:1 for $150 brand new other than the box having been opened.

If you go Chromecast your Google Play library will be accessible to your wife too; just need to enter the account info into the Play app on any phone you want to use.

OK buying a Sonos Connect this afternoon - is it generally advisable to have by NAS set up first?

Nope, you can always set up NAS later

Advisable to get some kind of streaming subscription (if you don't have already) maybe just a 30 day trial - it'll make it a lot more fun

but that takes like 5 seconds to set up anyway :)

That's fine, I have Spotify premium set up anyway (and maybe 1/3 of my library on Google Play but that's such a clusterfuck I'm probably going to delete it all).

my chromecast audio came! pretty neat thing & very easy to set-up. slightly annoying that i have to stream to it from the spotify web interface (rather than the standalone app) on my laptop. it also seems to skip sometimes when i'm doing something else on the laptop. for the price i'm happy & i just streamed the king album over it and it sounded gorgeous.

still thinking of getting a sonos for the living room, but will move the old hifi+chromecast to my study.

So I bought a play:1 and a chromecast audio.

CCA is good, but I'm not mad on the stream-from-browser as a model when I'm on my laptop.

The Sonos, otoh, is fantastic - does everything I'd hoped and sounds better than I'd imagined - surprised by how well a small speaker handles our main room (about 25x10). Family very happy with it, and find it entirely intuitive. The radio is cool - mostly BBC 3/4/6 so far but it is nice to have eg WFMU sitting alongside them.

CCA is good, but I'm not mad on the stream-from-browser as a model when I'm on my laptop.

I was just looking into Chromecast Audio as I would love to no longer have to hook up my laptop to the room stero, and not being able to stream directly from iTunes is a bummer. There seems to be a workaround though

you can use the desktop app to connect to your cca or other spotify connect devices

http://i.imgur.com/hXxHtSh.png

I got the Chromecast too, and so far I've been pretty happy with it. I find it a bit weird that there's no off switch though. Even when I'm not streaming anything it stays warm, there doesn't seem to be any "go to sleep after 30 minutes of inuse" setting or anything. I guess it's not that dangerous or anything, but it still feels stupid there's no timed sleep state, since even mp3 players have it these days.

I found that that if you don't want to spend too much money and you're okay with 320kb mp3 quality stream, the best option is Google Play + Chromecast Audio. Even with if you only opt for the free account, Google Play allows you to upload 50,000 songs from your own library to their server, which you can then stream to Chromecast. So this way you don't have to keep your computer on, and you can still listen to music you've ripped from CD or bought as files. But the downsize to this is that if you're an audiophile and want to stream FLACs to the Chromecast, you can't do that even with a paid Google Play account, the highest quality is always a 320kb mp3 stream.

I acquired the 30 day trial account for Google Play's music service, and so far it seems fine, can't really see that much difference to Spotify. It seems the amount of music available is roughly the same too. (Google Play claims they have a 35 million track catalogue, the latest info I could on Spotify says it has 30 million, but this is from last June. It's weird that Spotify don't mention their catalogue size on their own site?)

But since I'm somehat an audiophile, I like to have the option to stream my own music library as FLACs. It seems there are three options how to do this:

1) Get a paid account for Dropbox/Onedrive/Google Drive or some other cloud drive, upload your library there, then get an app for your mobile/pad that can stream music from cloud to Chromecast. This option means you don't have to have your computer on while streaming music, and of course you can listen to your library through the mobile outside home too. The downside is that this'll cost you at least 10 euros per month for the cloud drive.

2) Get one of those NAS things. This has the same benefits as solution 1, the only difference is that you don't have to pay a monthly fee for a cloud drive rather one payment for the NAS. But they are quite expensive still, the cheapest solution for me would still cost something like 250 euros. It's tempting, but I guess I'll wait to see whether their prices go down. Also, since the NAS has to be plugged in all the time, it'll raise your electricity bills, but so does keeping your computer on to stream music from there.

3) Stream FLACs from your computer with a music database software + an app that lets you control it from your mobile. This is what I'm doing for now, because it's much cheaper and more flexible than options 1 and 2. I'm using Subsonic, which is an open source database/streaming software that allows you tweak it quite a lot, which I like. It costs 1 dollar per month, but it also lets you to stream movies to your bluray player/smart TV and lossless music to your amplifier, if it has network connection. So basically I could play all the music through my amplifier without needing the Chromecast at all, but the amp's simplified interface allows me to browse folder only, which is quite a hassle when you have thousands and thousands of tunes on the computer. So I find using Chromecast + a mobile app that works with Subsonic (I used one called DSub, it cost 3 euros, but it's more versatile than Subsonic's official free app) to be much nicer, plus it can do stuff like playing a shuffled playlist of all the tracks tagged under one genre, which is nice if you feel like having a quiet ambient evening or whatever.

There are some free database/streaming softwares that do roughly the same as Subsonic, but I haven't liked as much. Plex only allows for mp3 streaming (like Google Play), so no lossless music through that. And while Logitech's free alternative does stream FLACs, it's user interface is very bad.

So yeah, those seem to be the options with Chromecast, as far as I can tell. If you some new info or tweaks to add to this, I'd love to hear about it.

If you don't mind keeping your computer on you could use it as a server with software like Serviio

Re uploading stuff to google play - what happens if you upload your pirated collection?

Re flac/cd-quality streaming, Tidal has a hifi subscription that will give you cd quality streaming (HD/24 bit is on the way) and should integrate with cca soon

Re uploading stuff to google play - what happens if you upload your pirated collection?

I don't know, I don't have any pirated files. :) But if I did, I guess I wouldn't upload them, though I can't seen how Google would differentiate those from legal files... It's not like they're gonna ask me to send receipts for everything I've uploaded.

Re flac/cd-quality streaming, Tidal has a hifi subscription that will give you cd quality streaming (HD/24 bit is on the way) and should integrate with cca soon

I checked into Tidal when I was looking into various Chromecast streaming options, and it looks they've been promising Chromecast support for over a year now, so I wouldn't cross my fingers. Of course, if you have an Android mobile/pad, you can mirror whatever you play on any app into Chromecast, but this method seems much more prone to freezing than using apps with official Chromecast streaming function.

If you don't mind keeping your computer on you could use it as a server with software like Serviio

Yeah, this is the same as what Subsonic does, but I chose it because its Android apps have Chromecast support, so you don't have use the mirroring trick I mentioned above. Don't know if Serviio apps have that function too?

I quite like the AppleTV, the 'hockey puck' ones (version 2 and 3) work great without a TV attached. You'll need an amp that has digital inputs (HDMI or optical) but then you're set. And they're hitting the second hand market in large numbers now that the new one is out, you can pick a perfectly good one up for 40-50 bucks.

what happens if you upload your pirated collection?
Nothing, except that it refuses to upload MP3's that were bought on Google Play and subsequently distributed.

Not the only one with this issue

https://en.community.sonos.com/amazon-alexa-and-sonos-229102/bbc-alexa-skill-6851039

That's v helpful, thanks :)

:)

I'm told it's either Amazon or Sonos at fault but Amazon are now aware...

Thank you!

To be honest I'm amazed that this elaborate fusion of iOS, Sonos, Amazon and fourth (fifth?) parties like the BBC or Spotify works at all. So many layers!

FWIW there is a Sonos "controller app" for BBC Sounds though you're probably aware of that..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/help/questions/listening-on-a-smart-speaker/sonos

Thanks Tracer. I do have BBC Sounds added to the Sonos app but don't use it much as I find it easier just to use the BBC's own app and then Airplay it. But experimenting with it again, I've found that if I've started listening via Alexa, it does remember where I was if I resume via the Sonos app, and once I've resumed via that route, Alexa voice commands to rewind and FF magically do start working. Something about passing through the app seems to set the whole thing right. Not ideal but good to know until it's properly fixed.