School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

NAS : network storage.
basically a big hard disc that you access via your home network.
they are not too pricey these days :

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/data-storage/data-storage/wd-my-cloud-personal-cloud-storage-4-tb-21817659-pdt.html

i use the NAS/Sonos Connect setup, and its brilliant.
not fussed re speakers round the house, just needed to get my digital archive into my stereo, and figured this was the best option for my needs.
and yeah, the desktop app is very easy to use, and i love the way you can flip from digital radio, various streaming services (i got 12 months free deezer when i bought the sonos connect), and your local digital library without any trouble whatsoever.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

So basically it's an external hard drive that also works as a cloud? The price is pretty steep, but I guess it'd eventually pay itself back since you don't have to pay a monthly/yearly like with net-based cloud services...

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

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yes, to keep your network up and running, then you do need to leave the router on.
i dont think this is a fire hazard !
re router+ USB : no idea, i would suspect it is possible, just depends on how the router maps the USB drive.
if you can access the USB drive as a standard external network drive, then i see no reason why you cant point Sonos to that location and pick up the digital files.

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

people turn off their modem/router???

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

I don't think I've turned a router off except to reboot it in about 15 years.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

I think my BT Homehub might do this but I've never worked out how to actually set it up properly.

if you think about it there is also electricity CONSTANTLY running into the house. you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency, i.e. the electricity is storing up behind the walls in an active state.

haha that is not how electricity works

Like even if any of that post made sense, "you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency" is cartoon funny - the idea you could see the delay between your fingers flipping a switch and a light turning on if it wasn't "storing up behind the walls".

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

Yeah, I get this, but those servers have inbuilt cooling, unlike my modem, which gets fairly hot if I keep it on for two days in a row. I assume this NAS has its own cooling system, though?

i acquired a sonos player last year and the sound is really good but

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive.

this was just a bit of a deal-breaker - i play all my music off an external HD and the speaker seemed to be requiring that i never switch my laptop off? i don't really see how that's remotely desirable.

Yeah I think this is why people are talking about servers/moving everything to the cloud. Always-on laptop is the scenario I want to avoid.

what about an always-on raspberry pi?

it really confused me when i got it because it was like...how on earth did sonos not take that into account when designing their weird system?

xp

I have the older version of the Marantz mentioned near the top of the thread.

I went for this because, after selling all my high-end gear in 2012 and going with a basic separates system (10yo Sony DVD player into 30yo Cyrus amp), and then giving those up too, I wanted to start from scratch with something good but simple. The sound quality is great (basically just the Marantz into Q-Acoustics monitors and Sennheiser headphones), but there are a few niggles with it dropping off my network with some regularity - so it can't find Spotify, or my iPhone / tablet app can't find the Marantz. CD playback was essential for me (again, it would be nice here if, seeing as it's a networked device, it could do a Gracenote-style lookup and not just say "11 tracks 55:12" like a dumb CD player), but there is a cheaper model without.

It also has a useless Last.fm mode (support for that was withdrawn before I bought mine), good FM/DAB and NAS/USB/Bluetooth/AirPlay connections (the last of which I use a lot when I can't be bothered navigating Spotify via the clunky Marantz app).

As an amp, it's perfectly fine - I route the TV and MD deck in via S/PDIF, and the turntable pre-amp via analogue. I think that's about all the connections taken up, mind.

it's tempting to think there's a NAS out there that you can dump your music onto, and feed your Spotify Premium details, and it would provide a unified search/playlist interface to? with RCA out?

I'm looking to reconfigure my home audio system, hopefully in a way that also integrates with my TV. My main music source is Spotify and my main TV platform is Roku. The essential apps for me on Roku are Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Twitch, and Spotify. Unfortunately, the Roku Spotify app is pretty bad. It doesn't allow you to play from folders, only from individual playlists, and it doesn't support local files, only songs in Spotify's library. I've tried doing screen mirroring from my Android phone to Roku for Spotify, but Roku's screen mirroring is junk, it crashes a lot and pretty much disrupts my wi-fi.

I don't think SONOS is the answer to this, but I'm curious about Chromecast. My main reservations are the lack of Amazon and the concern that casting from my phone to my TV/stereo will cause similar wi-fi issues as the Roku.

I wonder if there are any players that would do the same as what the Marantz does, but also work as an bluray/net video player with an HDMI out and surround sound? I have 5.1 speaker set and I watch movies and play music through the same Yamaha A/V receiver... It feels pretty pointless to have separate systems for music and videos, but most audiophile players/receivers seem to be for audio only.

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I have been looking at that Marantz thing for a while actually. If it had phono input I would have bought it already. But I've been in a state of indecision for a while now about whether to get that plus separate phono preamp OR vintage integrated amp plus bluetooth adapter (plus separate CD player I guess).

Oppo players might they are supposed to be great dacs

yeah it would be cool if Roku or Plex could just Handle It All, preferably through a unified search interface.

Again not to sound like I'm on the payroll but a Chromecast Audio & DAC would be preferrable to a DAC w Bluetooth adapter imo

I'm fairly clueless about these things... I have a Yamaha receiver with a supposedly good inbuilt DAC, if I plug the Chromecast Audio to the Yamaha via the optical S/PDIF (which it apparently has), would that be enough, or would I still need a separate DAC in between them?

Nope, no further DAC needed.

Thanks!

I've plugged my external hard drive into my BT router and it worked well enough to start with (basics: I was able to access my iTunes library) but every time my laptop went to sleep I had to reconnect/rediscover the drive. It was a pain in the tits. I get this with my airport express, too (in that it seems to drop off the network if not used for anything much longer than about a half hour and I have to turn it off and on again). I assume it's the low-quality of the router, unless it's something obvious I'm missing?

I'm rapidly talking/being talked into a Chromecast Audio here. Is it audibly better quality than an airport express or the same deal?

Sonos + Spotify is probably the easiest solution, but as someone who refuses to subscribe to music streaming services (it only works on Sonos if you're a paying Spotify user), I've been thinking about getting a network drive to store all my music.

I stayed at a house last summer where the owner had installed Sonos speakers all through the house, including the bathroom and on the patio outside. It was so great to be able to control the music in different rooms and to decide when we wanted to listen to the same thing throughout the house. Almost tempted me into subscribing to Spotify...

Google Music or Amazon Prime music allows you to stream and upload your purchased music and then you can stream it

Sonos is great. We collected bits and pieces second hand (including waterproof controller for bathroom) and I couldn't be without it now. The controllers all broke but they replaced them with wizzy new ones and you can control with your phone anyway. Used with one existing amplifier unit/speakers but their own don't seem that bad. Have refused to pay for Premium Spotify to use with it though, that's my main downside.

We have a sort of music server too, made life easier.

re: those people looking to integrate music and tv -- Sonos does have a soundbar (not cheap) that'll take audio from your TV and distribute it to other Sonos components, and you can set it up with a couple of the small Play:1 speakers and a sub if you want 5.1 surround. If your TV or set top box supports Spotify and something like Plex for local files you're all set (or just use your phone to control music if you don't care about a unified interface).

I look at how much it would cost to deck out our place with Sonos speakers and I look at my kids and think "I would like to feed and clothe these guys without dipping into their college fund"

I'm not sure it's necessary to deck out the place with speakers - an amp and a set of stereo speakers in the living room is great! Want sound ind more rooms? Turn it up!

Buy cheap active speakers for kids' computers - you don't need to be able to synchronize playback between rooms. It's more like a fun luxury.

well my kids aren't 2 yet so the closest they will be coming to getting computer speakers is if we buy some squeaky toy speakers

what i am really looking for is the following:
- no wires
- can stream music from spotify tablet or laptop
- sounds nice in my living room (~30m^2)

would 2x play:1's do the job?

having speakers in more rooms not really important to me. is sonos still the best fit?

If that's all you need then £30 Chromecast audio should do the job? Assuming you have speakers already, that is.

Cheap one-room solution: find a used Phillips Streamium player. They're around and they're pretty good, even if Phillips got out of the game a couple years ago.

I do have speakers & actually just bought the chromecast audio for the time being.

The reason I'm looking to replace them is that the amp+speakers are fairly large & the only place they fit in the room in an awkward position which doesn't lead to very nice sound. I can't move them to a better position without trailing wires all over the place.

xp - will check out the streamium, thx

Sonos would be the most elegant solution (assuming you have outlets near where you'd want the speakers), and two Play:1 would probably be fine in that room. If you're happy with Chromecast and don't mind a wire between your speakers, you could eliminate the amp (and the wires from the amp to the speakers) and maybe get a bump up in sound quality with a nice pair of powered speakers like Audioengine A5 for the same price as Sonos (note I haven't compared the Sonos sound w/ the Audioengine; just speculating).

there's tons of great 90s audio equipment on craiglist. people let go of totally good 90s and early 00s technics, yamaha, denon receivers for peanuts (just don't overpay for the now SUPER inflated "silver face" 70s and early 90s solid state stuff)

but i got a pair of awesome early 80s boston acoustics a30s for $80 and he had even refoamed them

I have a pair of Audioengine A5+ speakers in my living room that also handle the TV. I love the minimal aspect - the amp is built-in to the left speaker and it has plenty of input and output options. These speakers go for around $400 a pair and sound absolutely fantastic, been very happy with them and am only slightly tempted by the new HD6 ($700). I specifically chose active speakers over a soundbar because (3+ years ago) soundbars had a poor reputation for handling music.

I use a doohicky to wirelessly send the sound from my living room/TV over to another speaker (Mass Fidelity Core) in my dining room, been wondering if syncing two Chomecast Audio's would be a better option but it works now, so, meh. As I said, my setup has grown organically over the past few years so it's a mish-mash. My focus is being able to have my music follow me as opposed to having it play in multiple places at once, and I've achieved that with my BubbleUPNP/JRiver server setup - I can listen to something in the car, pause it, resume it on the Sonos, pause it, resume on the Chromecast Audio, etc.

Anyone use Chromecast Audio multi-room feature?

i got a canton dm55 soundbar for my tv recently. ideally i'd have gone all sonos but their soundbar is like 550 pounds or something, my tv is new and only cost 320 so i felt strange about spending way more on the sound. the canton was about 300- it's p great, big booming cinematic sound and seems good for music also.

this thread makes me realise how little unity i have in my setup, kitchen is two active monitors and chromecast, living room the canton dm55, bedroom a sonos, but i can control all p easily so i guess it doesn't matter.

you can create "groups" of CCAs for multiroom play but i haven't tried it

just as an example, here's craigslist today, solid Teac receiver for $30
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5417509609.html

some early 90s Polk S6 speakers $50

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5408860157.html

and a chromecast audio you've got a heck of a lot better sound than 90% of ppl do for a little over $100

i have a pretty similar set up but also threw in this Fiio dac that's the size of half a pack of smokes and costs $30

http://www.amazon.com/D03K-Digital-Analog-Audio-Converter/dp/B009346RSS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454432404&sr=8-2&keywords=fiio+dac

ug anyway I'm done shilling & Sonos is good but man I see what they charge for these little ass speakers and a I get kind of a Bose/Bang & Olafson vibe from that company

"multiroom play" indeed

I've got that DAC, too, great little thing.

I agree that with Sonos, you're paying a bit of a premium. But only a bit, and there's so much else you don't need to pay for or bother with.

Chromecast Audio + speakers you've already got is the best quick and dirty solution at this point. But we'll start to see many other affordable options on the market.

Good overview here.

So it's coming down to Sonos Connect vs Chromecast Audio for me (Mike's Last.fm issue is a dealbreaker for me). I'm assuming Sonos has proper Last.fm support, but what's its radio streaming like? Realistically I'm only going to listen to the BBC and occasionally Kiss or Rinse or something.

Dumb Chromecast audio question - if my entire library is up in the Google Play cloud, does is need to be accessed via my mobile? Is there any way I can allow my wife to search my library through her Android phone as well?

Sonos is starting to seem like the best all round option despite higher set-up costs.

Radio has worked fine for me on Sonos anytime I've used it, but I haven't done so often - others may have found problems through regular use.

I regularly use my Sonos players to listen to BBC radio 4, 5 & 6 (via TuneIn). There have been some issues with quality/reliability of the the BBC streams over the last year or so, but there was a fix at the end of last year and since then it's been perfect.

the description implies that sonos devices will now be controllable from the web (which was previously limited to your network), creating a much higher potential for somebody hacking into your system. and for what? so i can control music at home while i’m in the office?

it’d be better if they fixed the latency issues, speakers periodically getting lost and frequent forced updates (which included such “useful” functionality as having an inbox that only receives marketing messages).

xp +1

Thoughts?

Do not update. This is something rushed out with no quality control. Slow, sluggish, removes features, and not accessibility tested

They did not allow third parties to test fwiw

ugh

kind of glad i stuck to my S1 era device now.
at one time i was tempted to upgrade/replace my Connect with an S2 version, but upon investigation found that there was actually very little reason to make the switch.
subsequently, the S1 software now rarely gets an update, certainly nothing to do with functionality.
which suits my requirements just fine.

Good thread on the app. It's wild that a company that's dependent on return customers (building out a system with Sonos products) would fumble and piss them off this much.

So the forced update to my @Sonos app is easily the most mind-bogglingly terrible degradation of a previously beloved service I have experienced in my 59 years on planet Earth.

Basic functionality has simply been...removed. Want to edit your queue? Fuck you -- you can't!

— Tim Quirk (@tbquirk) May 9, 2024

the problem with no updating is that at some point it just stops working until you update.

so, what are good alternatives to sonos nowadays?

Depends what you're after - for all-in-one streaming smart speaker multiroom, I'm starting to think 'just don't do it, don't get trapped' - right now something more like a wiim mini running into a half-decent powered speaker is probably a more flexible alternative. Wiim seem to have a decent roadmap, deliver iterative improvements, good price for the hardware, app is multi-service (but I don't use it much - see next para).

Personally - I got out a 2-3 years ago & rebuilt a stereo system for the main room. Wiim pro for streaming but it's always just connecting via spotify or apple music or chromecast, not using the wiim app. Really solid, tho - like I really do not have to think about, it never seems to get confused.

The sonos speakers (3 s1s) sit around the house but tbh are mostly for my wife, who's used to them, used to using them from her phone and likes what she's used to.

The S1s still sound great - the room correction stuff built into them is really nice & tbh might probably make them outgun a powered speaker plus little wiim streamer. But I just don't want to be trapped with Sonos the company.

https://lyrion.org/

Logitech Media Server renamed and put together some easier documentation, from the look of it!

Worth a look if you are into playing your own collection of files... since even if you are just streaming from the cloud to your player(s), you need your server to be on.

Everyone uses the Material skin and not the ugliness displayed on the homepage.

thanks, both looks like promising options from a quick look!

new wiim ultra looks very impressive -

https://www.blog.wiimhome.com/post/unveiling-wiim-ultra-the-digital-hub-for-your-music

all these years and that $35 little Google Chromecast audio is still working for me

they don't make 'em like that any more!

forgot to turn off auto update, so let's see if it's fixed my main and critical gripe of saying it can't find any speakers when you open the app... and that's a nope.

reading about the wiim and now starting to regret the money i have punted sonos' way.

the missing "add to queue" option is very strange. a page says it's coming back in a future update to this update, but how can you push a version without it? I also miss the volume numbers for precisely setting the volume of sleep noise or music in the kids' room. Suppose I mostly use the spotify app anyhow.

there's some good discussion of alternatives to Sonos on this thread:

Maintaining a Digital Music Collection

There’s an option for “Save to Sonos Favorites” (for a playlist, track, or album); and when you try it, it just says “Something went wrong. Try again.”(??)

reading about the wiim and now starting to regret the money i have punted sonos' way.

I hear you - the trigger for rebuilding was wanting to bring my vinyl back to life and the sonos sunk cost thing pulled me towards a sonos amp or sonos port for a bit of my research but nah - they're still very respectable streaming speakers to have around the house but I'm happier out.

wow.the previous app would eventually pick up the speakers if you left it on for a bit or restarted a few times. the new one doesn't, and can't find any products if I try and set up a new system.

it's found them now. then loses and finds them again every time I reopen.

the sonos experience in a nutshell