School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

I got my parents into Sonos w/ Spotify. My mom is the kind of person who types GOOGLE.COM in the search bar on Google.com. She can work the Sonos from her phone.

Anyone here with experience replacing a Squeezebox 2/3/Touch with a Sonos Connect? I guess since it doesn't have a screen you need an iPad or something to control it?

I was also thinking about this recently. My hifi is very old and i haven't listened to any of my cds or vinyl in years. It's also difficult to find a space for it in my current living room.

How are the actually sonos speakers? I don't care sooo much about sound quality but I certainly don't want anything that sounds like a portable bluetooth speaker.

Or is it a better option to investigate a new standalone hifi and then get a sonos connect or similar?

Sonos app makes it unusable to me. True heads can't even listen to Youtube & my 64 gb itunes library never fully syncs. Currently use apple airplay thru vintage gear but it buffers so I'm interested in other options as well.

Thanks for the tips in this thread, I've been looking for a streaming device too. I have only one audio set in one room I would need to stream to, so I ended up ordering Chromecast Audio... However, upon looking at Google own streaming app, Google Play, it noticed that it transcodes all the FLAC into MP3s. And I know Plex does the same... Most of the music files on my computer are FLACs, and Chromecast itself supports that format, so are there any good music streaming apps that would stream FLACs to Chromecast without transcoding them?

I agree with ums that chromecast audio is THE best bargain on the market. But for multiroom purposes I think Sonos, HEOS or Bluesound are better (though more expensive) choices, in part because of the dedicated control app.

Sonos Connect is a great way to get started with streaming on your current stereo system, it's probably the most stable and developed system on the market. Heos Link and Bluesound Node 2 are good alternatives, they offer more connectivity (usb, optical input, bluetooth-adapter, subwoofer pre-out, triggers) and improved sound (24 bit support, better built-in DACs, better optical outputs).

If you're looking to replace you current amplifier, you'll need active speakers or streamer-amps. The stand alone speakers (like the Sonos Play 1) are impressive but can be a bit tiresome to listen to for very long - unless you're allergic to passive speakers I'd recommend the Sonos Connect Amp, Heos Amp or Bluesound Powernode 2 with a set of budget passive speakers for your main listening room. Price will be similar to a Play:5 or a stereo pair of Play:3s, sound is going to be a lot better.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

As a final note, I'll add that your streaming system is never going to function any better than your router - so if you're using the one supplied by your ISP, getting a proper router (~80$) can make all the difference.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

Sorry if I sound stupid, but what's a NAS and how do you acquire it?

and can i eat it?

NAS, Network Attached Server. dedicated file server running something like FreeNas or MediaVault.

NAS : network storage.
basically a big hard disc that you access via your home network.
they are not too pricey these days :

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/data-storage/data-storage/wd-my-cloud-personal-cloud-storage-4-tb-21817659-pdt.html

i use the NAS/Sonos Connect setup, and its brilliant.
not fussed re speakers round the house, just needed to get my digital archive into my stereo, and figured this was the best option for my needs.
and yeah, the desktop app is very easy to use, and i love the way you can flip from digital radio, various streaming services (i got 12 months free deezer when i bought the sonos connect), and your local digital library without any trouble whatsoever.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

So basically it's an external hard drive that also works as a cloud? The price is pretty steep, but I guess it'd eventually pay itself back since you don't have to pay a monthly/yearly like with net-based cloud services...

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

(xpost)

yes, to keep your network up and running, then you do need to leave the router on.
i dont think this is a fire hazard !
re router+ USB : no idea, i would suspect it is possible, just depends on how the router maps the USB drive.
if you can access the USB drive as a standard external network drive, then i see no reason why you cant point Sonos to that location and pick up the digital files.

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

people turn off their modem/router???

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

I don't think I've turned a router off except to reboot it in about 15 years.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

I think my BT Homehub might do this but I've never worked out how to actually set it up properly.

if you think about it there is also electricity CONSTANTLY running into the house. you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency, i.e. the electricity is storing up behind the walls in an active state.

haha that is not how electricity works

Like even if any of that post made sense, "you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency" is cartoon funny - the idea you could see the delay between your fingers flipping a switch and a light turning on if it wasn't "storing up behind the walls".

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

Yeah, I get this, but those servers have inbuilt cooling, unlike my modem, which gets fairly hot if I keep it on for two days in a row. I assume this NAS has its own cooling system, though?

i acquired a sonos player last year and the sound is really good but

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive.

this was just a bit of a deal-breaker - i play all my music off an external HD and the speaker seemed to be requiring that i never switch my laptop off? i don't really see how that's remotely desirable.

Yeah I think this is why people are talking about servers/moving everything to the cloud. Always-on laptop is the scenario I want to avoid.

what about an always-on raspberry pi?

it really confused me when i got it because it was like...how on earth did sonos not take that into account when designing their weird system?

xp

I have the older version of the Marantz mentioned near the top of the thread.

I went for this because, after selling all my high-end gear in 2012 and going with a basic separates system (10yo Sony DVD player into 30yo Cyrus amp), and then giving those up too, I wanted to start from scratch with something good but simple. The sound quality is great (basically just the Marantz into Q-Acoustics monitors and Sennheiser headphones), but there are a few niggles with it dropping off my network with some regularity - so it can't find Spotify, or my iPhone / tablet app can't find the Marantz. CD playback was essential for me (again, it would be nice here if, seeing as it's a networked device, it could do a Gracenote-style lookup and not just say "11 tracks 55:12" like a dumb CD player), but there is a cheaper model without.

It also has a useless Last.fm mode (support for that was withdrawn before I bought mine), good FM/DAB and NAS/USB/Bluetooth/AirPlay connections (the last of which I use a lot when I can't be bothered navigating Spotify via the clunky Marantz app).

As an amp, it's perfectly fine - I route the TV and MD deck in via S/PDIF, and the turntable pre-amp via analogue. I think that's about all the connections taken up, mind.

it's tempting to think there's a NAS out there that you can dump your music onto, and feed your Spotify Premium details, and it would provide a unified search/playlist interface to? with RCA out?

I'm looking to reconfigure my home audio system, hopefully in a way that also integrates with my TV. My main music source is Spotify and my main TV platform is Roku. The essential apps for me on Roku are Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Twitch, and Spotify. Unfortunately, the Roku Spotify app is pretty bad. It doesn't allow you to play from folders, only from individual playlists, and it doesn't support local files, only songs in Spotify's library. I've tried doing screen mirroring from my Android phone to Roku for Spotify, but Roku's screen mirroring is junk, it crashes a lot and pretty much disrupts my wi-fi.

I don't think SONOS is the answer to this, but I'm curious about Chromecast. My main reservations are the lack of Amazon and the concern that casting from my phone to my TV/stereo will cause similar wi-fi issues as the Roku.

I wonder if there are any players that would do the same as what the Marantz does, but also work as an bluray/net video player with an HDMI out and surround sound? I have 5.1 speaker set and I watch movies and play music through the same Yamaha A/V receiver... It feels pretty pointless to have separate systems for music and videos, but most audiophile players/receivers seem to be for audio only.

(xpost)

I have been looking at that Marantz thing for a while actually. If it had phono input I would have bought it already. But I've been in a state of indecision for a while now about whether to get that plus separate phono preamp OR vintage integrated amp plus bluetooth adapter (plus separate CD player I guess).

Oppo players might they are supposed to be great dacs

yeah it would be cool if Roku or Plex could just Handle It All, preferably through a unified search interface.

Again not to sound like I'm on the payroll but a Chromecast Audio & DAC would be preferrable to a DAC w Bluetooth adapter imo

I'm fairly clueless about these things... I have a Yamaha receiver with a supposedly good inbuilt DAC, if I plug the Chromecast Audio to the Yamaha via the optical S/PDIF (which it apparently has), would that be enough, or would I still need a separate DAC in between them?

Nope, no further DAC needed.

Thanks!

I've plugged my external hard drive into my BT router and it worked well enough to start with (basics: I was able to access my iTunes library) but every time my laptop went to sleep I had to reconnect/rediscover the drive. It was a pain in the tits. I get this with my airport express, too (in that it seems to drop off the network if not used for anything much longer than about a half hour and I have to turn it off and on again). I assume it's the low-quality of the router, unless it's something obvious I'm missing?

I'm rapidly talking/being talked into a Chromecast Audio here. Is it audibly better quality than an airport express or the same deal?

Sonos + Spotify is probably the easiest solution, but as someone who refuses to subscribe to music streaming services (it only works on Sonos if you're a paying Spotify user), I've been thinking about getting a network drive to store all my music.

I stayed at a house last summer where the owner had installed Sonos speakers all through the house, including the bathroom and on the patio outside. It was so great to be able to control the music in different rooms and to decide when we wanted to listen to the same thing throughout the house. Almost tempted me into subscribing to Spotify...

Google Music or Amazon Prime music allows you to stream and upload your purchased music and then you can stream it

Sonos is great. We collected bits and pieces second hand (including waterproof controller for bathroom) and I couldn't be without it now. The controllers all broke but they replaced them with wizzy new ones and you can control with your phone anyway. Used with one existing amplifier unit/speakers but their own don't seem that bad. Have refused to pay for Premium Spotify to use with it though, that's my main downside.

We have a sort of music server too, made life easier.

re: those people looking to integrate music and tv -- Sonos does have a soundbar (not cheap) that'll take audio from your TV and distribute it to other Sonos components, and you can set it up with a couple of the small Play:1 speakers and a sub if you want 5.1 surround. If your TV or set top box supports Spotify and something like Plex for local files you're all set (or just use your phone to control music if you don't care about a unified interface).

I look at how much it would cost to deck out our place with Sonos speakers and I look at my kids and think "I would like to feed and clothe these guys without dipping into their college fund"

I'm not sure it's necessary to deck out the place with speakers - an amp and a set of stereo speakers in the living room is great! Want sound ind more rooms? Turn it up!

Buy cheap active speakers for kids' computers - you don't need to be able to synchronize playback between rooms. It's more like a fun luxury.

well my kids aren't 2 yet so the closest they will be coming to getting computer speakers is if we buy some squeaky toy speakers

what i am really looking for is the following:
- no wires
- can stream music from spotify tablet or laptop
- sounds nice in my living room (~30m^2)

would 2x play:1's do the job?

having speakers in more rooms not really important to me. is sonos still the best fit?

If that's all you need then £30 Chromecast audio should do the job? Assuming you have speakers already, that is.

Cheap one-room solution: find a used Phillips Streamium player. They're around and they're pretty good, even if Phillips got out of the game a couple years ago.

I do have speakers & actually just bought the chromecast audio for the time being.

The reason I'm looking to replace them is that the amp+speakers are fairly large & the only place they fit in the room in an awkward position which doesn't lead to very nice sound. I can't move them to a better position without trailing wires all over the place.

xp - will check out the streamium, thx

Sonos would be the most elegant solution (assuming you have outlets near where you'd want the speakers), and two Play:1 would probably be fine in that room. If you're happy with Chromecast and don't mind a wire between your speakers, you could eliminate the amp (and the wires from the amp to the speakers) and maybe get a bump up in sound quality with a nice pair of powered speakers like Audioengine A5 for the same price as Sonos (note I haven't compared the Sonos sound w/ the Audioengine; just speculating).

there's tons of great 90s audio equipment on craiglist. people let go of totally good 90s and early 00s technics, yamaha, denon receivers for peanuts (just don't overpay for the now SUPER inflated "silver face" 70s and early 90s solid state stuff)

but i got a pair of awesome early 80s boston acoustics a30s for $80 and he had even refoamed them

I have a pair of Audioengine A5+ speakers in my living room that also handle the TV. I love the minimal aspect - the amp is built-in to the left speaker and it has plenty of input and output options. These speakers go for around $400 a pair and sound absolutely fantastic, been very happy with them and am only slightly tempted by the new HD6 ($700). I specifically chose active speakers over a soundbar because (3+ years ago) soundbars had a poor reputation for handling music.

I use a doohicky to wirelessly send the sound from my living room/TV over to another speaker (Mass Fidelity Core) in my dining room, been wondering if syncing two Chomecast Audio's would be a better option but it works now, so, meh. As I said, my setup has grown organically over the past few years so it's a mish-mash. My focus is being able to have my music follow me as opposed to having it play in multiple places at once, and I've achieved that with my BubbleUPNP/JRiver server setup - I can listen to something in the car, pause it, resume it on the Sonos, pause it, resume on the Chromecast Audio, etc.

Anyone use Chromecast Audio multi-room feature?

I have two pre-2015 Sonos 1s and a vinyl hifi -> Sonos Connect. It has had hiccups now and then but has been recently very stable. I use the S1 app, works just fine

yeah, i am still Connect/S1 user.
had a weird hiccup the other day when my hi-fi amp and sonos connect both went 'POP' at the same time (i literally heard a click sound).
recycled my amp via its master switch,
waited for the connect to get reconnected to my network only to discover it had a cleared out library,
so had to do the re-index process.
have been concerned that it's a sign the connect is beginning to show its age,
but not had any other problems since that happened.
when it does die, then i am totally straight down to richer sounds to get a port.
dont think i could cope with all the various alternatives that are out there.
have done research, and for windoze users the sonos desktop app is still the only real option for a simple NAS drive collection like i have.

The app is rubbish. When it's working well it takes ages to connect to the system. Today it wasn't working well, it wouldn't connect and everything was greyed out. At first it claimed it was still connected to two of my three speakers but it couldn't find the third, eventually it admitted it couldn't find any of them. I had to turn them all off and on, then turn my router off and on as well. Finally after it was all working - a twenty minute process - it wanted to update one of the speakers and to do so it had to stop all the music playing.

Google voice control is also sub par to say the least. You can't use it to play in shuffle mode. I have to say "(play whatever) ON SONOS" even when I'm speaking to a sonos speaker, if I ask it to stop playing it says "you have to tell me which device" even though it's only playing on one device. It often thinks we're talking to it when we say my daughter's name or other random words.

The voice controlled house-wide celestial jukebox is a great idea in theory and pretty neat in practice when it works but when it doesn't I find myself longing for an old fashioned system.

I hate the app and never use it. I just have a Sonos Move, which is a somewhat big and heavy "portable" speaker that sounds reasonably good. I stream spotify direct from my iphone to the speaker, and do not use the app to do it.

Yeah I should do the same - except this time spotify couldn't see the speakers as it was borked at a more fundamental level. And we sometimes play the radio and, surprise, voice control stopped working for bbc 6 music after some update at the bbc end last year.

I use Alexa not Google, but don't get the problems you outline, Ledge. But have had the odd bit of jankiness that has led me to set the whole thing up from scratch once or twice (moving homes was involved, to be fair). The app is a bit rubbish for song choosing so I use Spotify for that. I like the fine volume control the Sonos app gives you though – "Alexa, volume up" often jumps far too much.

As for BBC, I found I can't reliably say "Alexa, stop" to stop it any more, but "Alexa, quit BBC" works. As does asking it to mute, but that's slightly different, I guess.

My app used to glitch out a lot, I'd have to reset the speaker/router etc., but it hasn't happened lately (cross fingers). I only have one speaker, though.

Did you see they just replaced the One with a new model: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/03/sonos-replaces-the-sonos-one-with-new-era-300-and-100-speakers/

I really like what I've read in the early takes of the Era 300 (both the sound and the line-in/Bluetooth capabilities).

I've come around on the app and prefer it to using spotify directly these days.

Press and hold on tracks to bring up menu is good

The app lost my speakers again. I went to the support chat bot and after some initial questions it wanted me to go through the same steps that the app recommends of turning off and on all the speakers and the router. 'fuck this' I typed'. 'Ok, redirecting!' said the bot and a live person appeared. They came up with some router settings to try, which I haven't done yet but it's a start!

What do you all think of the New Search function in the app?

Just had a look - as I only ever use it for searching spotify it's probably an improvement, switching tabs to search for songs/artists/albums was a pain.

Meh, it's fine but I like seeing a list of results aggregated by service.

You can still do that; there are now little buttons at the top to limit results by each service. I just wish it were faster!

Got me an open-box discount on one of the new Era 100s, which we're using to replace our OG Alexa. Sounds great!

Spotify generally seems better at finding the speakers than the app itself. Here's the advice they gave me, tailored for BT routers. Haven't actually tried any of the advanced stuff as it seemed to involve downgrading to older slower protocols.

Wireless Mode 2 (b/g/n) is recommended for station mode. BT's guide on this here.

- If is not possible to fix the wireless channel or to separate the 2.4Ghz and 5ghz Bands on the Smart Hub 2, you can perform a "rescan" against each of the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands, within "advanced" - >"wireless"

-Opt out of BT Web protect help service:BT Web Protect You can turn off BT Web Protect by logging in to My BT and scrolling down to ‘Manage my extras’ and then selecting Turn Off in the ‘BT Web Protect’ panel within the 'Your included extras' page. It will take up to two hours for your service to be removed.

- If you have association issues, it may be worth toggling UPnP off then on and rebooting the router ( Advanced → Firewall → Configuration tab → Upnp On/Off

- Worth Turning off "Smart Setup" - > from the router home page → this can cause devices to have to "login" before getting an internet connection - Not necessary

My biggest gripe now is, once I used to be able to say 'Hey google play autechre'. Then that changed and I had to say 'Hey google play autechre on sonos'. Now I have to say 'Hey google play autechre on spotify on sonos in the living room'!

can you not define macros for these things?

My biggest Sonos gripe is that rewind and fast forward doesn't work on the BBC Sounds Alexa skill - even though it announces that it's doing it, it just goes back to the start of the bloody show. It works fine on Echo devices. No idea if it's the BBC's fault or Sonos's.

Is this voice control of Sounds via Alexa on a Sonos speaker?

And what are you saying to it?

Yes, that's it, Tracer. Using Alexa integration on the Sonos.

I'm listening to the most recent edition of a show on demand then say "Alexa, ask BBC to fast forward 10 minutes" and it replies "Going forward 10 minutes" and then the show restarts from the beginning.

Same happens with resume function. I go back to a show and it says "Would you like to resume the episode of Cerys Matthews from Sunday 9th July" or whatever and I say yes and it just starts the show from the start.

Not the only one with this issue

https://en.community.sonos.com/amazon-alexa-and-sonos-229102/bbc-alexa-skill-6851039

That's v helpful, thanks :)

:)

I'm told it's either Amazon or Sonos at fault but Amazon are now aware...

Thank you!

To be honest I'm amazed that this elaborate fusion of iOS, Sonos, Amazon and fourth (fifth?) parties like the BBC or Spotify works at all. So many layers!

FWIW there is a Sonos "controller app" for BBC Sounds though you're probably aware of that..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/help/questions/listening-on-a-smart-speaker/sonos

Thanks Tracer. I do have BBC Sounds added to the Sonos app but don't use it much as I find it easier just to use the BBC's own app and then Airplay it. But experimenting with it again, I've found that if I've started listening via Alexa, it does remember where I was if I resume via the Sonos app, and once I've resumed via that route, Alexa voice commands to rewind and FF magically do start working. Something about passing through the app seems to set the whole thing right. Not ideal but good to know until it's properly fixed.