"I'm a sovereign human being, I stand under common law only" - Thread of Freemen

Mr. Patrick [one of the people left at the refuge], who said he had had only snatches of sleep, would not commit to staying at the refuge. “I’m committed to going to breakfast,” he said.

somehow this phrase seems incredibly funny to me, given the seriousness of the events

yeah that's perfect

The complaint and supporting affidavit filed by the US Attorney's Office:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/296875147/US-v-Bundy-Complaint-and-Affidavit

(TL; DR)

Wuz Talking to Dr C., who seems to think I was rooting for excessive force

― a (waterface), Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:33 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thread's obviously moved on, for obvious reasons, but fwiw it felt more like you were bending over backwards to justify excessive force, using a bunch of stock justifications i've grown really weary of hearing in recent months (cop feels threatened, victim was asking for it, people should know better etc.). i guess in the context of a thread where we're kind of here to mock tinfoil people who set out to make videos like that babbling their incoherent logic, that did feel like rooting for the excessive force. but if that's not what you were going for, my bad.

But Finicum, with police in hot pursuit, attempted to leave the main road and drove into a snow bank. When he emerged from the vehicle, FBI and state police ordered him to surrender. That’s when, authorities say, Finicum reached down toward his waistband where he had a gun.

there it is

maybe he was reaching for a snack

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/631498/thumbs/o-BANANA-GUN-570.jpg?4

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/03/waistbands_n_6791990.html

sorry, that was maybe a little too "trenchant social commentary". I'm pretty willing to believe it in this case, but that phrasing has obviously been used before in sinister circumstances.

we know

"trigger happy cops are a bigger national problem than white militia paranoids"
"they're both a huge problem. don't see what difference it makes which is the bigger problem."

cops are a WAY bigger problem. they have a legal right to fuck with you and always get the benefit of the doubt if they injure/kill you. militia dudes usually stay away from most people. they like to hide out in their kingdoms. they are afraid of everything. which makes them theoretically dangerous, but, like most americans, they usually only end up hurting their own friends and family.

^^^

same

militias might be emblematic of some deep seated issues in the ~american psyche~ or w/e but trigger happy cops are that AND an actual bona fide public safety/health issue

yeah i mean let me tell you, i was Facebook friends with an infowars/"newtown was fake"/illuminati guy but then i blocked him and life goes on, he lives somewhere in wisconsin and i'll never see him again. but like a trigger happy cop destroyed a guy's life two blocks from me. i'm not actively worried about the former type (who i file under at least "militia sympathizer") bc like scott said they hide out, like mole people. cold comfort to oklahoma city i guess, but at the same time i'd rather be in their crosshairs than the crosshairs of a terrible cop. one would send me deranged emails, the other would shoot me.

not that the militia people don't have the potential to be a scary force obviously. was reading earlier about the rise of the rifle clubs and the Red Shirts in the 19th century. i don't really think that Trump is the despot they want, but the people out there now could definitely rally around someone scary at some point in the near future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Shirts_(Southern_United_States)

yes, someone scarier than Trump...

As they now exist, the militias are not politically relevant. But, if they are in any way legitimized and incorporated into our existing political machinery, they potentially form the nucleus of a brown shirt/black shirt organization. The Republicans are flirting with that kind of legitimization even now.

their popularity is growing, that's for sure

look i'm the first to say the growth of the far right is accelerating at the same time its various strands & impulses are being normalized -- but i still think unaccountable police violence is a bigger problem. its worth keeping up that sense of skepticism even for the bundy types.

this "waistband" detail is p much dispositive if it holds up

"where he had a gun" seems important, too

as opposed to "where police believed he may have been concealing a gun"

Yeah, this dude was definitely strapped.

I don't think this dude is going to get a lot of benefit of the doubt really.

If not necessarily suicide-by-cop, then maybe righteous-martyrdom-by-cop?

It's sad that this had to end with somebody getting shot, but I'm wondering how much in the guys own mind this is how his storyline ends and he was going to take control of it for once

Law cited against Oregon occupation was created to corral Civil War secessionists

Turn it off before 6:00 if you don't want to see a man shot and killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjl1hefqqWI

But there is something really weird about seeing a vehicle in the crosshairs of some government aircraft that's –

http://i.imgur.com/RRL6lAS.jpg

– I mean IN COLOR. IT'S WEIRD TO SEE IT IN COLOR.

This is what happens when a sovereign individual declares war on the sovereign state the individual resides within: their army proves to be somewhat insufficient to prosecuting the war to a successful conclusion.

Yeah, who woulda thought this goober couldn't organize an armed insurrection?

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1485325/oregon-standoff.jpg

The main political takeaway I hope comes out of this guy's death is the realization that no amount of militia-level armament is going to allow them to challenge the authority of the local police, let alone the army, and that that particular 2nd Amendment justification/perversion with regards to gun control is a complete fiction with no standing in a rational, evidence-based world.

a rational, evidence-based world

now you've gone too far

hear hear

I mean, I know it won't be, but still

nd that that particular 2nd Amendment justification/perversion with regards to gun control is a complete fiction with no standing in a rational, evidence-based world

there's a bad side to this, too--if the militias decide guns are not working to get their point across, they'll start to bomb more buildings

at which point maybe more of them will be treated as terrorist organizations

guessing it's hard to "prove" sedition in court but from what i've seen, a lot of these fuckers are seditious

There are now only about four occupiers left in the refuge hq. They are now demanding full pardons for everyone who took part in the occupation before they will leave the premises. Or else they will start executing the dozens of dildoes they are holding hostage.

So ... they are holding themselves hostage?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iXOAKnUqQ7M/UOr2khzx0qI/AAAAAAAABIk/JG-gOCAR2M0/s1600/Sheriff_Bart_self_hostage_Blazing_Saddles.jpeg

so these assholes are still there.

from a friend:

the Malheur takeover is a calculated effort to disrupt a national model for collaboration, cooperation and mutual benefit between federal agencies and local stakeholders.

very good background here, ALEC is involved:

http://www.triplepundit.com/2016/02/clive-bundy-taunts-feds-malheur-takeover/

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html

why does newsweek hate america

remember when right wing extremists flew airplanes into NY skyscrapers

no but I remember when they blew up a federal building

i'd have no complaint if the headline said "also a threat"

"They and untold thousands like them are the extremists who hide among us, the right-wing militants who, since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have."

huh, 2002. what an interesting year to start counting from

i'd have no complaint if the headline said "also a threat"

Not much of an attention grabber tbh.

is it really wise to lump all islamic militant groups into one category? i don't think doing so for all domestic groups who have anti-government leanings is necessarily prudent, either, but treating them as a potential threat seems useful

tbf the article does single out three particular stripes of domestic militants

remember when right wing extremists flew airplanes into NY skyscrapers

― Mordy, Thursday, February 4, 2016 6:35 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

look up the statistics smart guy

the statistics of...

temperatures at which steel beams melt