Free Speech and Creepy Liberalism

i dunno, I also find crumb really horrendous at times, and he's not even always being satirical when doing so

Like Crumb was publishing 'comix' which I understand to have been under-the-counter products whereas the CH stuff is closer to (though not quite the same as) the classic, acceptable 'newspaper cartoon'

This article from India cropped up which I think is fairly agreeable, also gives an interesting perspective -

https://sabrangindia.in/article/racism-not-anti-racist-%E2%80%98satire%E2%80%99

my impression of CH is that it was pretty underground w/ a v limited audience that gained an expanded readership after the attack on their offices, but i might be misinformed - maybe euler knows?

I don't know, tbh I'd not heard of it before the attacks. but I only moved full time to France a couple years ago. I think it's lower profile than Le canard enchaine, another satirical newspaper that I see people reading all the time, whereas I've never noticed anyone reading CH.

Regarding the assertion that the cartoon was satirising attitudes, the picture was apparantly printed under a banner which said "France isn't what people say" which might give that claim more credibility. Most reproductions of the cartoon I saw online failed to provide that context however.
https://twitter.com/ystriya/status/687415698008764421

i found the interview really amusing but i'm not sure what it has to do w free speech + creepy liberalism?

― Mordy, Wednesday, January 13, 2016 5:18 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

her suggestion that men stop writing for a while rang with something we discussed i think back in the genesis of this thread, the discussion about "if you really believed men's voices were overrepresented then as a man you wouldn't write anything"

oh yeah. well i still agree with that. if your primarily consideration vis-a-vis yr writing is whether yr gender is being appropriately represented or not than probably you don't have v much to say anyway. that can be read as snark but it's also that writing probably should function as a "calling" (it certainly pays like one) and if you feel a little enough compulsion to write that you're musing about yr role in perpetuating the writing gender hegemony, you probably don't need to be.

And it isn't going to stop another ten men from writing, thus preserving the hegemony

I do try to keep my mind bashed/pinned open when reading things people different to me have written - different gender, different race, location, etc. I take on board the 'there are things you probably don't know much about so let's be careful with these conclusions of yours' idea in a way I didn't a few years ago. I like to think if I was an editor or publisher I'd apply that

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/21/oberlins-president-refuses-negotiate-student-list-demands

Marvin Krislov, the president, said that while some of the demands "resonate with me and many members of our community, including our trustees," he would not respond directly to the proposals from black students, which were termed non-negotiable.

"[ S ]ome of the solutions it proposes are deeply troubling," Krislov wrote in a response posted on Oberlin's website. "I will not respond directly to any document that explicitly rejects the notion of collaborative engagement. Many of its demands contravene principles of shared governance. And it contains personal attacks on a number of faculty and staff members who are dedicated and valued members of this community."

re demands linked to above ~ december

this one belongs in a rolling academia and its discontents thread:
https://anthrodialogue.wordpress.com/2016/01/18/bds-and-the-rise-of-post-factual-anthropology/

pretty sure this goes here:

http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/12/22/yes-virginia-there-is-a-left-wing-reform-movement/?fb_ref=Default

I can dig that

Nah, it's rubbish. No mention of #BlackLivesMatters beyond criticizing: 'claiming that you can fight capitalism and the state with hashtags', as if hashtags wasn't a way to make communication and outreach easier, exactly the things he calls for. It's fighting a straw man.

Maybe he wasn't talking about BLM there - maybe he doesn't equate the movement with the hashtag, as you apparently do. From a different FDB piece that I liked a lot: We celebrate grassroots activist movements like Black Lives Matter, but we insult them by treating them as the same thing as hashtag campaigns, and we don’t build a broader left-wing political movement that could increase their likelihood of success. http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/05/13/maybe-time-for-change/

Ok. Well, then he doesn't mention BLM at all, which is weird as well. Still strawmanning.

seems like he's mainly talking about academic leftism. BLM is something broader than that and didn't begin on campus afaict

Yes. He is talking about academic leftism. That is the straw man. He is dismissing identity leftism, as a thing found in the academia, but doesn't mention the biggest activist movement of these last few years. That hurts his criticism.

It's a strawman because there are no leftists who embody the qualities he's criticizing? Because all purveyors of "identity politics" are also grassroots activists affiliated with BLM?

he probably didn't bring BLM up so as not to appear to be criticizing it or tying it explicitly to #cancelcolbert or whatever

A White Off is a peculiar 21st-century phenomenon where white progressives try to prove that the other white progressives they’re arguing with are The Real Whites. It’s a contest in shamelessness: who can be more brazen in reducing race to a pure argumentative cudgel? Who feels less guilt about using the fight against racism as a way to elevate oneself in a social hierarchy? Which white person will be the first to pull out “white” as a pejorative in a way that demonstrates the toothlessness of the concept? Within progressivism today, there is an absolute lack of shame or self-criticism about reducing racial discourse to a matter of straightforward personal branding and social signaling.

this has obv never happened anywhere ever

Which white person will be the first to pull out “white” as a pejorative in a way that demonstrates the toothlessness of the concept?

The answer to this question is always Whiney, btw.

he probably didn't bring BLM up so as not to appear to be criticizing it or tying it explicitly to #cancelcolbert or whatever

― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), 27. januar 2016 16:31 (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That is completely ridiculous. He seems more to criticize it by attacking all non-class based leftism. He probably didn't bring up BLM because it absolutely destroys his argument about the bad things in identity leftism.

He "seems more to criticize it" by failing to confuse it with the phenomenon he's criticizing?

i agree freddie does downplay, to the detriment of his argument, the overwhelmingly positive effect the rise of BLM has had on the left and discourse as a whole, even despite some missteps and questionable tactics. i would make the argument though that it is possible for reasonable people to disagree in good faith about the extent to which revolution needs to be race-focused, something i think many on certain parts of the left do not grant

I agree, I'd just also consider including Fredrik de B in that group.

The group of reasonable people who disagree in good faith?

Nah. I think by denying the best argument for the revolution being race-focused, he is not arguing in good faith.

Then you didn't really agree with or understand the post you were responding to, but whatever. He only "denies" BLM by not lumping it in with the performative, non-substantive tendency he's criticizing in that post. I would say the third paragraph here is more like an endorsement of BLM as an actual movement, but I suspect you'll stop reading once you notice it comes after "anti-capitalist" and doesn't namecheck BLM: http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/12/29/left-materialism-for-2016/

The idea that Marxists have to ignore racism or sexism for fear of being 'identity politicians' is nonsense. It's part of the same mythology that claims anything short of revolution it counter-revolutionary, which is contrary to how Marx approached politics.

boxall, do you really need the snarky remarks? You're hardly a shining example of good-faith-arguing right now.

I disagree with this central part of his argument: 'I’m part of a small but growing collection of people who feel that the left has lost its way, and that it must be steered back to its traditional roots: in materialism, in class solidarity as the basis of political organizing, in recognizing that racism and sexism can only be meaningfully addressed through structural economic change, in privileging the material over the symbolic or the linguistic, and in defining our purpose as building a mass movement — and thus necessarily reaching out and convincing those who are not already convinced.'

I don't think that racism and sexism can only be meaningfully dressed through structural economic change, I would argue a lot of countries that has gone through structural economic change has ended up no less racist, I live in a country with a welfare state the envy of a lot of the American left, right now making headlines for our racist behavior. Ta-nehisi Coates writes convincingly that the fundament of racism remains violence against black bodies, and I don't think the word 'materialist' is good enough to cover that. And if you're arguing in good faith against student leftism, I don't think it proper to dismiss trigger warnings as 'the symbolic or the linguistic', when it is in fact meant as a way to deal with trauma, a way to break the link between the bodily attacks heaped upon women and minorities and the school curriculum, intentional or not a way to keep college more white and male, with huge materialistic implications. We can agree or disagree on that argument, in good faith, but to dismiss it the way Fredrik the Boer does is wrong.

A school curriculum can't make a bodily attack on anyone, which is why calling e.g. trigger warnings a "symbolic" or "linguistic" approach to the problem of violence against women or POC is just an accurate descriptive statement, not a dismissal. If college is too white and male (latter not really as true as the former in the US, I don't think), a wider or warmer embrace of trigger warnings are not the most effective remedy for that problem.

The relationship between positive (to a leftist) economic change and progress against racism might be debatable, but I doubt the experiences of Denmark shed any light on the question in the US.

i take it financial post is canada's version of wsj? anyway lol: http://business.financialpost.com/executive/student-protesters-become-someones-employee-heres-how-to-ensure-they-dont-become-your-headache

http://peterlevine.ws/?p=16357

http://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/mind_reading.jpg

https://twitter.com/LibertarianBlue/status/694168588631040000

x-post That's true, right?

Correct. There are no laws on the books to protect you from involuntary mind-reading.

Phew!

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/23/dont_teach_sensitive_topics_or_anger_students_university_of_houston_warns_after_campus_carry_gun_law_is_passed/

You Guys Are Great 201
Seriously, you guys are so cool. Do you like pizza? Me too. In this course we'll just sort of see what happens, go with the flow. Readings will include just, you know, books mostly. Or not! No pressure. I love you.

Sam Gerrans of Russia Today brings us our latest piece on universities and safe spaces.

Some of the "suppressed truths" highlighted are... interesting.

"I made an independent trip to Russia in my first year where I learned – by speaking with Russians – what every Russian over 30 knows: that there was very little Russian about the Russian Revolution.

They all knew what Putin declared publically: that the overwhelming majority of the Bolshevik leadership was Jewish. Yet, back in the UK, no one was allowed to mention this fact. Papers were marked down"

Further nonsense includes:

"missionary of moral relativism Peter Tatchell (has) been out-offended and out-outraged by the grandchildren of the people they helped corrupt."

"We are now pandering to a generation of cultural Marxists – iPhone-touting Maoists – indoctrinated snitches on a perpetual witch-hunt for anyone who does not conform with their feelings about an ideology they have been fed but which they do not understand."

Link: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/334733-education-mediocrity-rugby-feelings-compassion/

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/10/western-washington-university-students-push-sweeping-demands

The list comprises some of the most of the most expansive -- and resource heavy -- demands put to a university’s administration. Among them:

A new College of Power and Liberation to focus on “the study of histories and communities that continue to be mis- and underrepresented into the mainstream curriculum at Western.” In addition to the college itself, the list calls for “a cluster hire of 10 tenure-track faculty,” a new building to house the college and that the Student Assembly for Power and Liberation have “direct input and decision-making power over the hiring of faculty for the college.”
That $45,000 be allocated to compensate students and faculty “doing de-colonial work on campus,” which is defined as “providing space and resources to learn alternate histories, supporting students' nonacademic work, emotional and intellectual labor that is not about publishing or service to the institution, providing often unrecognized trainings, workshops and/or interventions on behalf of students.”
The creation of a 15-person student committee called the Office for Social Transformation “to monitor, document and archive all racist, antiblack, transphobic, cissexist, misogynistic, ableist, homophobic, Islamophobic and otherwise oppressive behavior on campus.” Using a three-strike system, the committee would have the power to take disciplinary action up to and including dismissal against faculty members who receive citations for creating “an unsafe classroom environment.”
A mandatory online survey conducted by the faculty and administration that would “allow Western Washington University community members to confidentially express concerns of discrimination and safety.”
A new “multicultural residence building,” applications to which would be overseen by the new Office for Social Transformation.
And finally that the university provide tuition reimbursement to “any Western Washington University student who has been targeted by, harassed by or has experienced excruciating acts of violence that [ were ] racialized, sexualized, gendered, based on ability, employment status, citizenship and/or mental health from the university.”

comical number of the demands are to be implemented 'by spring 2016', per the assembly's diktat

uh $45K won't cover the photocopier budget

i think you mean photocxpier

what a bunch of wimps, if they were genuine revolutionaries they'd take over a building. this is asking ("demanding") mommy & daddy to make things all better.

and that the Student Assembly for Power and Liberation have “direct input and decision-making power over the hiring of faculty for the college.”

when i was in college all potential new department hires met with students first for like a lunch/lecture/meet and greet and then students gave their input. i'm sure the administration took some of that input into account when making their decisions. is that not normal at other schools, or are they asking for direct hiring/firing ability?

can't these kids just go start a commune/punk house?

And when the revolution came it was led by the grant writers