what does this pfm song review thingy even mean anyway?

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nabisco - maybe, but the "fleeting" thing makes me feel like rachel wants it NOT to be shins-life-pop, so again it makes the shins-life-pop-lover disappointed. (oof)

sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Damn, I figured fans referred to the band as "Boris Yeltsin," I didn't think about it being a reference to the band's full name. That's a bit of a stretch, no one claims the "someone" is the band itself. Now that's nitpicking!

You can make references that will neatly sort out who will or will not like the music in question

Unless, of course, you've only heard from a friend that you should check out this review and song and have never heard Beulah or Phantom Planet or know their members or backstories. This is why PFM (and other sites I read regularly) are mentioned as sites for indie music obsessives. My sister was telling me about enjoying and possibly seeing Beulah live, but I doubt she knows the name of the singer. PFM singles reviews are for the obsessives, definitely.

mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't understand what this:

"a bendy plywood voice emoting like Miles Kurosky or even Alex Greenwald."

has to do with getting dressed up.

(that part is kinda silly. skin & bones/socks/plywood voice)

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago) link

here's the song, by the way.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link

the "auditioning drummers" part makes way more sense now that i listen to it.

haha, and the "fleeting moment" is also the worst part. (can you tell that i wish the Shins changed my life?)

sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost

Yeah well now's the part where reading any more closely starts to seem actively mean. Which is to say: it's a really short track review, one of many, and so picking on a failed metaphor or two might be getting a bit too demanding.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:15 (eighteen years ago) link

(xpost: I am mean.) I put on my plywood voice every morning before I go to work, Scott.

Dan (Also My Balsam Eyesight) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:15 (eighteen years ago) link

i am more bored than mean.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I am still mean.

Dan (Grr Grr) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

this particular review isn't really the best example of what i mean, but it seems like a lot of the pfm track reviews are trying to sound rushed, like the writer is just churning something out as quickly as possible. hence the constant use of things like "etc," which usually isn't even referring to anything.

my main problem with this style is that there are actually no real people who talk like this/think like this. i guess it's supposed to sound speedy and preoccupied?

Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago) link

My take on that blurb goes along the lines of:

“The writer is having fun and being somewhat clever in ways that impress her, so good on her, despite the fact that I don’t understand this review, really, and have no more desire to hear this song than I did before I began reading it. Man, I sure hope my singles reviews don’t elicit a similar response.”

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

my main problem with this style is that there are actually no real people who talk like this/think like this.

Dude, you are hanging out with the wrong people.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

OTFM.

HUMPS, Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link

If those people are wrong I don't wanna be right.

HUMPS, Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost

Yeah, I know that tone. I think it's trying to communicate a bunch of qualities about itself: excitement, personality, casualness, range of high/low culture references -- some trait we might call "freewheeling," you know? There's also an attempt toward density -- using that freewheeling quality to pack as much into a capsule review as can possibly be gotten in there.

I don't know that it really matters whether people ever talk like this -- writing is not talking, and nobody talks like the New York Times, either -- but you'll be either frightened or relieved to learn that there are indeed people who kinda talk like that, or whose discussion at least vaguely takes that shape.

xpost

Guys, L said he didn't mean this review, so much -- I think the reference runs more toward Sylvester-type capsules, really.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link

haha sylvestery-type capsules

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:55 (eighteen years ago) link

the entire history of rock crit is rolling over in its grave

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:56 (eighteen years ago) link

http://members.aol.com/troydk/images/dyn/slyvester.jpg

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago) link

r. meltzer sez sufferin succotash 2 u nitsuh

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:58 (eighteen years ago) link

http://im.rediff.com/movies/2005/may/31sly.jpg

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Dude you totally just got an F in rock critic history. Aren't you ashamed?

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I think this is a pretty decent review, though it's maybe not the most accessible bit of music writing in the world. I've liked a lot of things I've read on Pfork by Rachel Khong - she's pretty sharp for the most part.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:01 (eighteen years ago) link

DUDE IS TALKING ABOUT PITCHFORK TRACK REVIEWS. It's not exactly an assault to history to use Nick as the best-known handy reference to that particular writing style in that section, which is edited by ... Nick.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.dogmacatma.com/images/050805_17.jpg

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:03 (eighteen years ago) link

That's like if someone said "you know those kinda chimy-guitar bands on the O.C. mixtape CD" -- you'd say "like Death Cab," not "like the Byrds."

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:03 (eighteen years ago) link

actually i'd probably do that "dog-with-its-head-to-the-side" stare

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link

true no one talks like the NYT but then, the tone i'm trying to describe seems to make some gestures towards the conversational. no intention of implicating nbs, but a lot of the reviews i'm thinking of try to come off like casually composed riffs. just thinking out loud, no biggie etc!!

the syntax is off-kilter and often hard to penetrate but the weirdness is calculated and the grammatic acrobatics finely tuned. it's not a new trick i guess (trying hard to sound breezy) but i guess it's just a little more obvious when you've got this self-conscious overuse of parentheses, abbreviations, and unexplained references. i understand they're trying to keep these little blurbs to word count but there's still something distasteful about writers purposely alienating readers and casting themselves as "insiders" too busy to explain what the fuck they mean.

Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

I find the over-the-top, drowning-in-references stiltedness of this particular review to be sort of funny in the sense that it reads like the kind of semi-parodic music writing you'd find in a piece of fiction. It seems kinda unreal.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

p.s. all that said it's pretty fun to read i guess and when the obscurity thing isn't pushed to its limits the grammar/syntax business is pretty effective in terms of communicating thrill/cool/whatever. it's way more entertaining than most "serious" music criticism, but it's never going to be as good as writing that manages to match exciting/innovative form with genuinely exciting/innovative content.

Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Readers always assume that challenges in music crit -- say, heavy references -- are designed to prove that the writer is cooler than the reader. Consider the opposite: perhaps the writer is giving the reader a little credit. Or consider what's probably the reality: perhaps the writer is just aiming to the most initiated portion of the audience, aiming for the approval of his/her peers. Maybe disdaining the task of explaining the references as kind of boringly kindergartenish. I don't support this kind of thinking, but it seems a lot more like the reality than this idea that writers are just trying to be cooler than you. (Nobody reads Critical Inquiry or Artforum and says "these fuckers just have to pretend to be so much more sophisticated than everyone else" -- they're just shooting at an audience more initiated than you'd prefer them to.)

Again, for the record: it seems to me to be a better challenge for the critic to evade this issue entirely, and in fact I think the people lauded as top-notch critics usually do find a way to write that can be sophisticated and universally-understandable at the same time.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I am steadily more convinced that readers of music criticism need to stop for a second and read books. Literature. Maybe even high-school English class staples. I can't think of any other way to remedy these constant complaints that people can't understand basic literary tactics like metaphor (simile, even!), use of images, personification, and so on.
-- nabisco (--...) (webmail), January 5th, 2006. (nabisco)

There's a problem of genre here. When people read music criticism (or at least, when I read music criticism) they want something along the lines of an IGN.com video game review or a newspaper movie review. Straight and to the point. It's utilatarian literature, they want the question "Do I want to hear this?" answered.

They aren't expecting something that looks like it belongs in the Norton Anthology of British Literature. Reading music reviews on sites like Pitchforkmedia, I often feel like opening a technical manual for my car to find out how to change the oil and finding the entire thing is wrote in haikus.

Mickey (modestmickey), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:34 (eighteen years ago) link

'the writer is cooler than the reader' by referencing phantom planet twice

'the writer is giving the reader a little credit' by referencing phantom planet twice

'the writer is just aiming to the most initiated portion of the audience, aiming for the approval of his/her peers' by referencing phantom planet twice

there must be an option d.

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link

this is a pretty clear review for p-fork....what's the fuss? i've read way more confusing shit on p-fork than this.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link

We weren't talking about that review anymore, doofusiccio.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh whatevs, nabuttsco

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Nutface aboobie

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:38 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.technotica.nl/board/html/emoticons/sex.gif already.

Dan (Sheesh) Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:39 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost I think the writer generally just gets caught up in providing his own description of how the music sounds and forgets that other people might not understand what they're talking about. That's what I do, anyway.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Not that I have weaknesses.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh and

a lot of the reviews i'm thinking of try to come off like casually composed riffs. just thinking out loud, no biggie etc!!

This is certainly how I write track reviews.

Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Eppy deeply otm

Dan too.

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Mickey can you point to examples? The bulk of reviews I see contain literary and rhetorical tactics on basically like a high-school English level, which seems pretty appropriate to me. Who exactly is deploying such outlandish literary/rhetorical devices? How do they rate on a scale of 1-10, if 9.5 and above are reserved for like Eliot, Joyce, and Woolf?

(Also haikus are very clear and practical, not opaque.) (Also your haiku simile is an example of exactly the kind of literary tactic -- metaphor -- that I'm surprised people claim to have trouble reading.)

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:46 (eighteen years ago) link

my mom's russian is better than her english so whenever i try and fail to define a word for her, she reminds me that intelligent people aren't just good at knowing things, but explaining what they mean. critical inquiry is not analogous to pitchfork in terms of audience expertise, and even if it was-- even if everyone reading the site knew who the fuck Alex Greenwald is and why he deserves an "even" before his name-- the fact that it's indie rock they're talking about makes it just kinda nasty because it's a culture populated by people trying constantly to outcool each other. maybe that's not a fair association, and i guess pfm's current policy is better than the inevitable condescension that would come along with level-headed explanations. but there's no virtue in speed, and just because you talk fast doesn't mean you're saying a whole lot. it's like using italics to communicate emphasis: the best writers don't need to lean on form to make up for deficiencies of substance.

in conclusion it's nothing personal but rachel probably had to look up Phantom Planet on Allmusic.com before she referenced Alex Greenwald by first and last name. because any normal person would. that's reason enough to explain the reference, however briefly.

to reiterate, i might actually be more worried if she just knew it offhand.

Leon Neyfakh (Leon Neyfakh), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link

(Anthony I called you just "doofus" first but then there was an xpost and I didn't want anyone to get confused: thus doofusiccio, which sounds ... delicious, I guess?)

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

WHATEVER, NUTFACE.

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:49 (eighteen years ago) link

NUTFACE ABOOBIE

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm sorry, I have to go take a drug test now.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

watch out for those poppyseeds

cancer prone fat guy (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:53 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm afraid all the Nyquil I've been popping turned my pee into Mad Dog 20/20.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 5 January 2006 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link


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