It's not the "nong's" I'm concerned with - it's the vast massed ranks of tokenists who only actually need about a dozen CD's because a copy of Legend tells them everything they need to know about reggae just as their copies of Kind Of Blue and A Love Supreme tell them everything they need to know about jazz....
You know these people, they are moving amongst us in every day lives - their collection also includes Revolver, Sgt "Peppers and either: Blood On The Tracks, Dark Side Of The Moon and Astral Weeks (if they're over about 35); or Automatic For The People, OK Computer, (What's The Story) Morning Glory and Nevermind (if they're under about 35).
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:49 (nineteen years ago) link
I prefer coconut.
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:50 (nineteen years ago) link
how the fuck is it not racist to say this, about a genuwine black person? mindboggling
― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― mr scratch, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyway, letting the stupid mannerisms and attitudes of certain fans of an artist/band ruin that artist/band for you is self-conscious and dumb.
― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― ..., Friday, 21 May 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link
In reference to Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, the term Uncle Tom, as I understand it, is an epithet applied to blacks who are perceived to act in a shuffling, subservient manner to please white folks. Its use is, if not necessarily racist, at the very least extrodinarily racially-loaded, especially for a white person to apply. I still haven't quite wrapped my head around Robert Christgau's use of it to describe Jimi Hendrix in his infamous Monterey Pop review.
So, Marcello's not necessarily racist in applying it to Bob Marley, just wrong. Boot polish? That's racist.
― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link
1. Duppy Conquerer2. Kaya3. Small Axe4. A Hammer5. Lively Up Yourself6. 400 Years7. Put It On8. Soul Rebel9. Rastaman Chant10.Redemption Song
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:23 (nineteen years ago) link
but unfortunately the predictable attacks indicate yet again that your voice is not your own, you are the product of a discourse.
marley ripped off lee perry's vocal stylings and grafted it clumsily onto clapton's love-me-rich-white-man sickening succour.
sinatra can make me weep. coltrane can make me scream. marley just makes me yawn. go and listen to proper reggae, i.e. dr alimantado, joe gibbs, pablo, culture, burning spear, congos (did marley ever do anything as sheerly VISIONARY as any given nanosecond of "Row Fisherman Row"?) et Al (Green).
― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:34 (nineteen years ago) link
I don't think he ripped off Perry.
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:34 (nineteen years ago) link
The Perry-period stuff is marvellous and rightly gets great respect. The Studio 1 material is, I think, very mid-60s Coxsone business and too often overlooked, at least by comparison.
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:47 (nineteen years ago) link
marley was beloved of a white audience. the lyceum '75 audience was 80% white, for example. do any blacks even bother listening to him these days?
― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 21 May 2004 14:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:55 (nineteen years ago) link
classically DUD.
― waxyjax (waxyjax), Friday, 21 May 2004 14:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― briania (briania), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:00 (nineteen years ago) link
Lee Perry is not the most reliable of sources, though, is he?
Marcello, several of the names you mention above will have, at certain points in their histories, have attracted audiences in the UK which were substantially white, and I'd be very wary of trying to map that on to musical quality.
My understanding is that Bob Marley is enormously popular in many black communities around the world, and I know he's listened to where I live. Certainly he garners enormous respect on the reggae lists and newsgroups I've read over the years, including from people who know their reggae inside out.
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:01 (nineteen years ago) link
I'd never really thought about this until I read that David Katz biography of Perry where (i think) Jimmy Riley and Clancy Eccles both point out that not only did Marley's vocal style change as a result of working with Perry but he began to sound like Lee Perry. One of them said something like "Listen to Marley after he worked with Perry, that's Lee Perry's voice you're hearing". It's not so much a case of Marley ripping Perry off as of Perry coaching Marley musically and vocally.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:05 (nineteen years ago) link
(It's probably also fair to say that the likes of Mr. Eccles know what they're on about much more than the likes of me. But it's nice to try to make my own mind up sometimes...!)
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim (Tim), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link
If they did would that make him good?
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:42 (nineteen years ago) link
This is a joke, right?
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Barima (Barima), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Barima (Barima), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― christoff (christoff), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link
However, after learning more about Reggae and reading up on some of the backstories of some of his songs ("Burnin' & Lootin'" etc), I realised that a lot of his stuff was based not in abstract ideas of how the world is fucked up, but in experiencing the world's fucked-upness firsthand.
So my question, to try to put it in specific enough terms, is: do you think that there's a specific point at which Marley's lyrics stopped being about trying to get the ppl in his backyard to stop shooting each other, and started to be about trying to get ppl everywhere to stop shooting each other? A specific point in time when it stopped being about preaching to a very specific community and started being about more-or-less universal messages?
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Saturday, 4 June 2005 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Sunday, 5 June 2005 00:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 5 June 2005 00:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 5 June 2005 01:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Leonard Thompson (Grodd), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― That One Guy (That One Guy), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Catch A Fire = CEverything Else = D
― That One Guy (That One Guy), Sunday, 5 June 2005 02:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Sunday, 5 June 2005 08:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― shookout (shookout), Sunday, 5 June 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link