Search and Destroy : New Order

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Did "Ceremony" come out before or after _Movement_?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 30 March 2003 19:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

bernard sumner's vocals aren't that horrible. I do see what you mean sundar but for me he has the perfect 'I'm so not bothered and yet I'm getting away with it haha'.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 30 March 2003 19:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

i haven't talked enough about how 'temptation' is the best song ever. find me that thread where marcello nails that 'small voice/big music' dynamic so i can post it to the 'ilm critical insights' thread.

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 30 March 2003 19:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Search: _Technique_, which I love head to toe; the U.S. 7" mix of "Blue Monday 1988" (which radically re-edits the song & more or less structures it into a pop song); plus the videos for "The Perfect Kiss" (!!!!!) and "True Faith."

Destroy: "World in Motion," "Shell-Shock."

Douglas (Douglas), Sunday, 30 March 2003 19:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

you're telling me you don't like that rap douglas? hoe can you not?!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 30 March 2003 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

in 'world in motion' that is

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 30 March 2003 19:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Search: "Temptation," "Age of Consent," "Your Silent Face," " Ceremony," "Touched by the Hand of God" (Does no one else love this?), "Leave Me Alone," "Face Up." There are more but their titles can be so hard to remember.

I don't know as I'd destroy anything, but the songs that just sit on the I & IV chords are the only ones I care much about.

Burr (Burr), Monday, 31 March 2003 00:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

two months pass...
And while I'm doing a bit of NO revival, search the last fifteen seconds of "Regret." I will take that against anything and everything recorded by all those Part of the Canon/Hall of Fame characters I regularly impugn -- Dylan, Beatles, Clash, U2, Springsteen, etc. -- now and forever.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 June 2003 19:47 (twenty years ago) link

see that's easy to say when you are just playing a band's records again, one after the other. but after a while the memory fades (you still think its great): it will not be the 'forever' as you say ned.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 12 June 2003 20:22 (twenty years ago) link

i like a lot of new order, but personally id still take dylan over them. although if i need something to dance to, then its got to be true faith.

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Thursday, 12 June 2003 20:27 (twenty years ago) link

it will not be the 'forever' as you say ned.

Oh yes it is. Trust me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 June 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link

There are U2 and Clash songs that I like more than the last 15 seconds of "Regret".

Nothing recorded by either can touch "1963" or "Doubts Even Here", though.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 12 June 2003 20:53 (twenty years ago) link

but personally id still take dylan over them

?????? god help us all

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 12 June 2003 22:19 (twenty years ago) link

heh, it was a comment on his music, im not making advances of manly love towards him

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Thursday, 12 June 2003 22:28 (twenty years ago) link

Last night I dreamed about New Order. They were playing a gig at the Windmill (dive venue in Brixton, for those of you who aren't from London.) I remembered thinking that Barney was getting fat. But that I'd still do him in a heartbeat. ;-)

kate (kate), Friday, 13 June 2003 08:53 (twenty years ago) link

U're referring to the bass coda, right? Yeah these 15 secs are worth the album alone

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 13 June 2003 08:58 (twenty years ago) link

it's a bit harsh to rank the Beatles with those other characters, Ned, innit? at least they made some good films (unlike bloody U2, argh).

"Bizarre Love Triangle" is one of my fave singles evah.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 13 June 2003 09:12 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
Nice to see that some people out there do enjoy Movement. It was my first New Order album and has since been my favourite.

While there are a bunch of songs I'm not overly fond of, the only things I'd really like to destroy are "Shellshock" and that "Sub-culture" remix. I always found it hysterical that Peter Saville hated that version so much that he refused to design a sleeve for it.

I'd certainly avoid 90% of the remixes as well (via The Rest of and elsewhere).

Kent Burt (lingereffect), Friday, 22 August 2003 18:41 (twenty years ago) link

I'd simply add 'State of the Nation' to your destroy list. Ok, and maybe also 'Liar' off Republic

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Saturday, 23 August 2003 09:16 (twenty years ago) link

Search: Original 12" single of 'Ceremony"
Destroy: Blue Monday

Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 23 August 2003 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

four weeks pass...
while i'm having the biggest neworder phase since about 10 years ago who can tell me which b sides/remixes that aren't on substance disc 2 and 'rest of' are the best ? i have a sneaky feeling that unlike, say prince or pet shop boys or whoever, that all the good stuff (cept maybe 1963) is on the a sides and albums. there's not a lost classic is there ? it's certainly not to be found on the b sides of technique. i like that though, it's al on the record between those 45 minutes ! one semi-gem i discovered is 'the happy one' (technique sessions) which is ace !

god i love new order so very very much it almost physically hurts.

is john denver really credited in the brackets after 'run 2' on the best of sleeve or is someone having me on ?

piscesboy, Sunday, 21 September 2003 16:45 (twenty years ago) link

the tune is ever so slightly nicked from denver's "leaving on a jet plane"

the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 22 September 2003 04:50 (twenty years ago) link

and the settlement from Denver's suit was described as their contribution to sending him into space!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 22 September 2003 06:04 (twenty years ago) link

I'm pretty sure that 'the happy one' is used as the continuity music on one of their video collections, quite possibly the Substance one - accompanied by images of falling leaves coloured Saville style (True Faith single cover?)

Alan (Alan), Monday, 22 September 2003 08:23 (twenty years ago) link

aha ! well done alan. that explains why it sounds like 4 seperate pieces edited together ! it's a lovely little thing but totally throwaway. yeah i never bothered with the substance collection - neworderstory kind of negated that.

piscesboy, Monday, 22 September 2003 09:52 (twenty years ago) link

I've really never be able to understand the fuss about Movement, Dreams Never End apart. It sounds so weak to me. Especially in comparison to Closer. Most of the other stuff is brilliant however, and the B side collection from Substance is a must for Lonesome Tonight, 1963, Mesh, Procession and Murder.

How come no one has mentioned Thieves Like Us yet? (Surely the best single made be anyone ever etc)

flowersdie (flowersdie), Monday, 22 September 2003 11:22 (twenty years ago) link

jason donovan's favourite single of all time. fact.
i recall very vividly the picture of him holding up
'substance 1987' on vinyl in an interview in 1989, and
for the first time thinking 'oh maybe he's quite cool after all'.
the last time i though that was when he did the jo whiley tv show in 98 and he was clearly out of his mind.

piscesboy, Monday, 22 September 2003 11:50 (twenty years ago) link

The fuss about _Movement_ centers on the fact that while the first half is good (especially "Truth"), the second half is godly. It is difficult to find a track sequence as fantastic as "ICB"/"The Him"/"Doubts Even Here"/"Denial".

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 22 September 2003 12:52 (twenty years ago) link

word

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Monday, 22 September 2003 13:08 (twenty years ago) link

What Dan said.

'Mesh' on Substance is in fact Cries and Whispers - they mis-titled it.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 05:35 (twenty years ago) link

four weeks pass...
i've just decided ... "your silent face" is the greatest song ever!

Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 01:05 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
the mother of all 'portables' go!
------------------------------
Joy Division 'portable' (78:11)

Digital
Disorder
Insight
New Dawn Fades
She's Lost Control
Shadowplay
Wilderness
Interzone
Transmission
Something Must Break
Dead Souls
Love Will Tear Us Apart (single a-side vers.)
Isolation
A Means to an End
Heart and Soul
Twenty Four Hours
Decades
Love Will Tear Us Apart (Peel Session vers.)
Ceremony (from Still)

(pretty straightforward and tidy, I wanted Ceremony on the end to point the way to the future).

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc1 80:56

Ceremony (re-recorded vers from FAC 33T/Substance)
Temptation (5/87 from Substance)
Blue Monday (12" vers. from Substance)
Confusion (5/87 from Substance)
Thieves Like Us
Sub-culture (Robie remix from Substance)
Perfect Kiss (extended vers. from Substance)
True Faith
1963 (94 edit from Best Of)
Fine Time
Round & Round
Run
Regret

(the first disc in my 'three histories' of New Order. It's my dream Substance disc1, with the singles from Technique and "Regret" tacked on - oh! and 1963 which is not the remix, but just a slightly shorter edit of the original. Oh and I LOVE the "Sub-culture" remix).

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc2 80:38

Everything's Gone Green
Dreams Never End
Age of Consent
Love Vigilantes
ShellShock (12" vers.)
Paradise
Weirdo
Broken Promise
State of the Nation (12" vers.)
Blue Monday 1988
All the Way
Love Less
Guilty Partner
Vanishing Point
Dream Attack
World in Motion (single mix)
World (The Price of Love)
Ruined in a Day

(covers additional singles and favorite album tracks and most of the additional tracks from 'Technique')

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc3 80:51

586
Your Silent Face
Sub-culture (album vers.)
Sunrise
Elegia (album vers.)
As It Is When It Was
All Day Long
Mr. Disco
Spooky
Everyone Everywhere
Young Offender
Avalanche
Crystal (radio edit)
60 Miles an Hour
Close Range
Run Wild
Here to Stay (radio edit)

(essential odds-n-ends and my faves from 'Get Ready')


side order 'portable' New Order side projects 78:04

Electronic - Getting Away With It (extended vers.)
Electronic - Get the Message (album vers.)
Electronic - Idiot Country
Electronic - Reality
Electronic - Tighten Up
Electronic - Feel Every Beat
Electronic - Disappointed (single mix)
Electronic - Forbidden City
Electronic - For You
Electronic - One Day
Electronic - Second Nature
The Other Two - Tasty Fish (album vers.)
The Other Two - Selfish (The Single Mix)
The Other Two - Selfish (That Pop Mix)
Monaco - What Do You Want from Me?
Monaco - Happy Jack

(surprisingly strong, I find I listen to this quite a bit. This disc generously pretends that Revenge never happened! also 'Twisted Tenderness' is absent and the last Other Two album which I haven't even heard. The second Monaco album is ignored because I don't remember anything from it).
-----------------------------

I love these CDs probably more than any non-person thing.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:17 (twenty years ago) link

oh and these are mostly chronological (side order is chronological by band).

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link

also, album versions unless otherwise noted (i think!)

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:19 (twenty years ago) link

Nicely done, you supergenius. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:23 (twenty years ago) link

spencer, is ceremony on substance from the original factory 7"? if not i have some an mp3 to send you.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:36 (twenty years ago) link

ah, i answered my own question upthread:

scott said about 15 months ago:
Ceremony (the 7" is much better than the version on Substance)
so so true... sorry, so late. just wanted a check in the tally column.

-- gygax! (gygax0r@...), September 26th, 2002 8:05 PM.

IMHO, the finest thing they ever did. i have a pristine rip if you're interested.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 02:38 (twenty years ago) link

is the original the one with the gold sleeve?

the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 7 November 2003 03:12 (twenty years ago) link

I think people REALLY need to reconsider "Slave" and the Revenge EP.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 7 November 2003 03:22 (twenty years ago) link

esoj = this

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 03:24 (twenty years ago) link

bingo

the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 7 November 2003 03:33 (twenty years ago) link

i think mine is more bronze. i bought it when it came out though. is it the same? (uk/us pressings maybe? mine is def uk)

gaz (gaz), Friday, 7 November 2003 03:35 (twenty years ago) link

thanks gygax, I actually have that 7" and enjoy it. I like the Substance one better as it fits in with the rest of the pristine-ness of the tracks on that disc. I really like that version from Substance and the one on the Taras Schevchenko (sp?) video.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 November 2003 04:17 (twenty years ago) link

The Ceremony versions are here :

7": UK 1981 (Factory FAC 33) [gold sleeve]

4:34 Ceremony
4:35 In A Lonely Place

12": UK 1981 (Factory FAC 33) [green sleeve]

4:34 Ceremony
6:12 In A Lonely Place


12": UK 1981 (Factory FAC 33) [cream/blue sleeve] *

4:22 Ceremony **
6:12 In A Lonely Place

* Matrix indicates Side A as FAC 33 A2. Possibly catalogued as FAC 33T.
** Re-recorded when Gill joined the Band. This is the substance version, I think. Not sure what version is on the box-set. Will check tonight.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 7 November 2003 08:28 (twenty years ago) link

haha ok, mine is the gold one changed colour due to excessive fondling.

gaz (gaz), Friday, 7 November 2003 08:33 (twenty years ago) link

pervert!

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 November 2003 09:55 (twenty years ago) link

Re: Ceremony. I used to have all three versions listed by Dr. C, and although there may have been a slight difference between the green 12" and the cream&blue one, there was a huge difference between both of these and the gold 7", which begins with an epic guitar discordance totally unlike anything on the more well-known version. (Although it might be the case that the original green 12" was the same as the gold 7", but later ones, such as the one i had, included the cream&blue mix instead)

Also search the 7" of Shame of the Nation (Shame was better than State, but the shorter version of Shame was, I think, the finest of the NO tracks that hardly anyone's heard.)

scott, Friday, 7 November 2003 11:47 (twenty years ago) link

**Although it might be the case that the original green 12" was the same as the gold 7", but later ones, such as the one i had, included the cream&blue mix instead**

I think that's right - also some import versions might have the *wrong* sleeve.

It's definitely the Gill version on Substance, also on the Palatine box - it's bugging me that I can't remember which one is on Retro.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:50 (twenty years ago) link

i've never heard the original :(

the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link

i think i like Xiu Xiu's version better than Joy Division or New Orders!

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:23 (twenty years ago) link


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