Sufjan Stevens’ Carrie & Lowell

Additional note: Am I crazy if I believe Seven Swans is indebted to Steve Reich? The opening three songs specially: 'In the devil's territory', 'all the trees in the field' and 'dress looks nice on you' are all built on top of banjo/guitar patterns that remind me strongly of Reich.

wait, what's so bad about the Gacy song?

your love light passes through completely, on the willow

And in my best behavior
I am really just like him
Look beneath the floor boards
For the secrets I have hid

this is one of the most narcissistic acts of writing in the history of song. feeling kinda shitty about how you are as a person and moping about it is not actually "just like" mass fucking murder and it's really a bad look to even suggest it

You must remember two things: Sufjan is a born again Christian and it permeates most of his lyrics and he's focusing on Gacy's childhood. Sure, a song condemning such a horrific person would be more apt but from Sufjan's scope he's reminding us about the belief that all men are sinful and unworthy of god unless they repent. Gacy's troubled childhood is also at the center of the song so he might also be trying to express how people turn bad by nurture and it can't be controlled.

So, point is, from a Christian point of view we're all equals. As capable of evil and good as any other person and as deserving of forgiveness no matter how bad our sins.

Not my personal belief but that's the context I think.

also he is a murderer

of Christmas songs

this is one of the most narcissistic acts of writing in the history of song. feeling kinda shitty about how you are as a person and moping about it is not actually "just like" mass fucking murder and it's really a bad look to even suggest it

― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi)

doesn't bother me at all, but i do appreciate the explanation!

Moka i think for the most part posters itt "get it;" just find it obtuse and unsuccessful.

There's a connection somewhat to 'A good man is hard to find' which is based on the short story with the same name and is written from the Misfit's pov. It's a much better song but it seems to be a fixation of his. Faith as a burden.

I have a good friend who belongs to a charismatic christian church* and he is totally OK with the closing stanza of John Wayne Gacy, saying that it is absolutely the correct position in the eyes of god and the polar opposite of narcissism. I think it's fucking bonkers, but whatever.

I'm still waiting for the right time to listen to Carrie and Lowell.

*we agree on pretty much everything else. After several too many heated conversations about religion, we just don't discuss it any more.

Identifying with the most revolting kind of sinner in the name of Christian humility seems like the opposite of narcissistic. It is, however, problematic in that this kind of thinking is exactly the sort of thing that has inculcated self loathing among Christians through the centuries.

It's also a view that has tended to be pushed as a form of social control

In some ways, though, the hate the sin not the sinner/who among us is blameless? etc ethos is the main thing I've carried with me from my Catholic upbringing. At its best, this helps me be more patient and also to consider other people's circumstances. At its worst, it causes me to make excuses for others and tolerate being treated like garbage. All ethical systems have their holes

Identifying with the most revolting kind of sinner in the name of Christian humility seems like the opposite of narcissistic.

it's picking the big garish sinner and saying "I'm like him in that I too have things I wouldn't admit to others" that's kinda gross imo. like, we all have some shit we're ashamed of, but no, in fact, being a fallen human is not the same as murdering a lot of kids and there isn't a coherent theology that makes such a claim either

Then he's inadvertently exposing a great flaw in the Christian belief system.

I think he's paraphrasing the Nihilist Spasm Band: "So you think the CN Tower is the world's tallest freestanding structure? What about me?"

xp we've finally found one

"Identifying with the most revolting kind of sinner in the name of Christian humility seems like the opposite of narcissistic. It is, however, problematic in that this kind of thinking is exactly the sort of thing that has inculcated self loathing among Christians through the centuries."

Yeah but being in that state of self loathing isn't a right state of place for a Christian to be. You identify yourself as a sinner, but you are then saved from the self-loathing through the realisation that Jesus forgave and died for you in that state, and so the Love of God overcomes the self-loathing and all is set right.

The problem comes when the dichotomy of Salvation/Sinfulness is out of balance in a believers life. When a Christian forget's their sinfulness, that's when the holier-than-thou, better-than-all-those-sinners Christian comes out. And when a Christians forgets the Salvation (or doesn't yet know their salvation), that's when the terrible, depressing self-loathing, Christian comes out.

Every Christian has to make sure these are in balance, and I see the whole song as Sufjan writing to himself, keeping himself in check, remembering his sinfulness, not as to dwell on it in a self-loathing way, but to humble himself and guard himself from a holier-than-though mentality.
Whether he should have used an actual historical event to get across that point, that's another story.

I was in a clothes shop the other day and this album was playing. Everyone looked pretty glum.

He is on a five amazing album run, in my opinion, Michigan onwards it's all very good. There a very few (any ?) contemporary artists on such a run.

I can think of one artist on a 24 amazing books run

and this was released after Michigan
http://991.com/gallery_180x180/Sufjan-Stevens-Songs-For-Christm-383531-991.jpg

kanye

Fourth of July really is a tearjerker

I've never really considered myself a fan of this guy, but this album is totally blowing me away.

not carrie and lowell but this early demo version of chicago was recently released. what a lovely song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRsiNX9LR8

I can think of one artist on a 24 amazing books run

― NATION: ? ? ? (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, November 2, 2015 7:24 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's like he was waiting for the right moment, patiently, for years after creating this username

carrie & lowell, i think, has become one of my top 10 or 15 favorite albums of all time.

it's fantastic. it reminds me of andrew bird's weather systems and of montreal's sunlandic twins in totally dialing up my appreciation for someone's talent

this album is so good that I feel bad about my dn. then again, this record is great in part because he didn't have to name drop a state bird into poignant moments.

TIP: Don't listen to "The Only Thing" on public transit while reading someone else's suicide note (they found the note writer, he's fine now AFAIK)

It's a beautiful album - my favourite from last year. Took me by surprise, as not previously a fan at all.

Jesus christ this album.

^ I know, right?

The Carrie & Lowell outtakes compilation The Greatest Gift was supposed to be out by now, but apparently they delayed it until November. Here is a (heartbreaking) preview track, "Wallowa Lake Monster". Sufjan has also contributed three songs to the Call Me by Your Name OST, out on Friday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwo_Ucs-wc4

01 Wallowa Lake Monster
02 Drawn to the Blood (Sufjan Stevens remix)
03 Death with Dignity (Helado Negro remix)
04 John My Beloved (iPhone demo)
05 Drawn to the Blood (fingerpicking version)
06 The Greatest Gift
07 Exploding Whale (Doveman remix)
08 All of Me Wants All of You (Helado Negro remix)
09 Fourth of July (900X remix)
10 The Hidden River of My Life
11 City of Roses

So this Tonya Harding song is pretty great

The blog post he wrote about it is good too. I like how he has an interest in “larger than life” American figures. A classic subject for a folk musician.

http://asthmatickitty.com/tonya-harding/

should've known better is all time

incredible song, thank you treeship|!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=PUvVjWR3zTQ

Kid is special

This song rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcn32Usjy0

the two new songs are nice, but this one's especially great. i'd really love a whole album that sounds like this, it's basically exactly where i wanted him to go after the last two albums.

like i'm absolutely here for chill synthpop sufjan with kinda sophisti-vibes and extended guitar solos

I've preordered this so it better not suck

https://theascension.sufjan.com/

so is this gonna be his Wisconsin album or.....

btw kinda funny to see this guy have a little resurgence thanks to "The Politician" which uses "Chicago" as its opening theme, I've watched only one episode but you can't pick a more perfect opening song than that. I'm guessing that's not gonna make anyone watch it though

the first single is "America" so presumably that will cover all remaining states xp

"America" drops July 3... cute!

I guess nobody was talking about "Aporia" earlier this year but it's really nice