'Porcelina of the Vast Oceans' and 'Thru the Eyes of Ruby' are two of my personal highlights of this record and I don't find them slogs at all. I think Brad is totally OTM. I've also never understood the huge fuss over 'Bullet with Butterfly Wings' and '1979' either - I like both plenty, but I consider neither to be highlights. I'd go as far as saying '1979' is one of the most overrated Pumpkins tracks ever, actually.
― Turrican, Saturday, 24 October 2015 22:34 (eight years ago) link
i believe it to be their very best, but i guess it's overrated if you say so
― brimstead, Saturday, 24 October 2015 23:53 (eight years ago) link
idk i have a hard time seeing mellon collie as anything other than the peak of 90s alt rock. and i'm not even a big smashing pumpkins fan.
― J. Sam, Sunday, 25 October 2015 01:04 (eight years ago) link
"Porcelina" sounds as big as its full title implies, and I love it for that reason.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 October 2015 04:35 (eight years ago) link
the thing about it being the peak of '90s rock is i consider the last five tracks to be a deliberate troll of '90s rock
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Sunday, 25 October 2015 14:23 (eight years ago) link
yeah I don't really think there's any precedent for a RAWK album that ends with five basically guitar-free ballads, nor anyone who's been foolish enough to try that since
― the naive cockney chorus (Simon H.), Sunday, 25 October 2015 14:51 (eight years ago) link
Anyone else excited for the second leg of the IN PLAINSONG tour? With a 7-8 suite of Siamese Dream songs in the middle! Check out this setlist from one of the shows last year, with the Adore suite in the middle:
Tonight, Tonight99 FloorsTodayMy Poor Troubled Heart (traditional)DorianFor Your LoveDrum + FifeA Stitch in TimeMayonaisePrairie SongJersey ShoreSparrowPerfectTo SheilaBehold! the Night MareFor MarthaBlissed and GoneAva AdoreNow (And Then)The Crying Tree of Mercury1979Run2MePinwheelsStand Inside Your LoveLandslide (Nicks)A New Poetry---SpaceboyEl-A-Noy---Cardinal Rule
― flappy bird, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:42 (eight years ago) link
SparrowPerfectTo SheilaBehold! the Night MareFor MarthaBlissed and GoneAva Adore
fuck
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:43 (eight years ago) link
right?? and there are far fewer SD-era songs that work acoustically, so that pretty much guarantees we'll get Luna and Spaceboy along with Disarm and Today. We could get the first performances of Sweet Sweet since 1994! I made a list of all the possible SD-era songs they could do in this format:
SootheLunaSweet Sweet DisarmTodayRocketSpaceboyObscuredWhirGlynisBlissedSmileyApathy's Last KissSoma? (they did it in 96)Hummer? (did it in 93)Moleasskiss? (kind of a stretch but i could see him working it out, such a killer song, a lost classic, could've been a single)
Mayonaise could work acoustically, but I never need to hear that song again. Hoping Bill digs deep like he did last year with the Adore material (Sparrow???!!)
― flappy bird, Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:49 (eight years ago) link
please please please let "obscured" happen
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 February 2016 21:59 (eight years ago) link
obscured is the best song
― example (crüt), Friday, 5 February 2016 00:18 (eight years ago) link
Always loved "Whir." In 1994 I was 12 and I thought that songs like that were what college kids listened to. It's got that college-y, angsty, Gen-X-y feel that we've all come to know and love. "Obscured" is so great, though.
― Sam Weller, Friday, 5 February 2016 09:47 (eight years ago) link
gonna keep this streak alive and give a nice big shout out to my jam "obscured"
― billstevejim, Friday, 5 February 2016 10:11 (eight years ago) link
I never cared for "Apathy's Last Kiss," but this rough mix without all the flanger/chorus/phaser is really good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8sue6FKHBM
― flappy bird, Friday, 5 February 2016 18:03 (eight years ago) link
Cardinal RuleStumbleineTonight, TonightWorld's FairSpace Oddity [David Bowie cover]Thirty-threeJesus, I / Mary Star of the SeaMayonaiseSomaRocketSpaceboyTodayWhir [live premiere]DisarmSorrows (In Blue)EyeSaturnine [live premiere]Identify1979Stand Inside Your LovePinwheelsLily (My One and Only)Malibu [Hole cover]Spaniards [live premiere]---Angie [The Rolling Stones cover]Amarinthine [live premiere]
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 14:44 (eight years ago) link
IDENTIFY??!??!????!!???!?
wacky
― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 15:02 (eight years ago) link
God, imagine Corgan doing the vowel-mangling bit on Angie. *shudder*
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 15:28 (eight years ago) link
I'm stoked on MARY STAR OF THE SEA - easily the best song on the Zwan album. Best Zwan song though will forever be CHRYSANTHEMUM
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 16:16 (eight years ago) link
a Flood-produced version of Identify with Bill on vocals leaked recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDwW4yFj-dE
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 23 March 2016 16:18 (eight years ago) link
Corgan's voice is really similar to Jagger's!
― lute bro (brimstead), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 19:42 (eight years ago) link
He's like batshit wild man jagger
― lute bro (brimstead), Wednesday, 23 March 2016 19:43 (eight years ago) link
Tape Op article on the history of Smashing Pumpkins in the studio is pretty amazing
http://tapeop.com/interviews/115/smashing-pumpkins-a-studio-history/
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 23 September 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
I appreciate how they're all pretty much acknowledging that in the studio the band was a duo.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 20:16 (seven years ago) link
yeah that struck me and not just coming from Billy acting like a dick but all the producers p much just talk as if it was billy and jimmy only
i really dug the part about chamberlain having to move drums around his kit to physically perform a beat corgan had cooked up on the drum machine
also 30 days to do Gish! that was kind of a crazy investment on an underground band in those days
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 23 September 2016 20:23 (seven years ago) link
Well they were already signed to Virgin and the record came out on Caroline for that underground cred, man, etc. etc. But the point still holds, that's a pretty big indulgence for a band that just had the couple of singles out at that time. Were times just more flush in general as we keep hearing or did someone in the Virgin corporate structure figure this was a solid bet from the start?
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 20:32 (seven years ago) link
Anyway, definitely an interesting read. I skimmed once it hit Zeitgeist of course.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 20:33 (seven years ago) link
Well they were already signed to Virgin and the record came out on Caroline for that underground cred, man, etc. etc.
ah i didn't know that so i guess it worked...but yeah then i guess it's probably not as big a deal...1990-91 I'd imagine everyone is pretty much swimming in cassette/ascendent CD market money, but yeah I thought with Caroline that's staking a pretty big bet
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 23 September 2016 20:58 (seven years ago) link
good article, and i don't even really like this band. interesting about them pretty much being a duo in the studio, and yet everyone says they were amazing live (at least at some point). maybe that was primarily corgan and chamberlin too ... also that album cover for Zeitgeist remains a thing to behold.
― tylerw, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:01 (seven years ago) link
i feel like zeitgest's album cover is trying to makes some kind of POLITICAL STATEMENT but it's hard to discern what it might be....
http://diffuser.fm/files/2015/07/Zeitgeist.jpg
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/following/2015/12/04/thinky.w710.h473.2x.jpg
― Pull your head on out your hippy haze (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 23 September 2016 21:09 (seven years ago) link
i mean, i like heavy handed adolescent rock imagery as much as the next guy [ #pinkfloydrules ] but lol come on billy
― tylerw, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:12 (seven years ago) link
Jimmy Chamberlin: On Machina, I think we got – in my opinion – to where we always wanted to be sonically. That record, for me – drum-wise with the distortion and the (Eventide) Omnipressor on the snare drum, the crispy-and-crunchiness of those drums, and how they interface with the guitar dynamics – from a production standpoint, really is our crowning achievement.
lol wow jimmy
― who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Friday, 23 September 2016 21:26 (seven years ago) link
everyone says they were amazing live (at least at some point)
as noted on this thread, I would rank them as one of the worst bands I've ever seen, def one of the worst professional shows I ever saw
― Οὖτις, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:42 (seven years ago) link
interesting to see Corgan accurately assess his qualities as a singer tho
― Οὖτις, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:43 (seven years ago) link
huh I guess that's NOT noted on this thread, must've been some other Corgan-related thread. anyway, it's here now!
― Οὖτις, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:44 (seven years ago) link
xxp ha yeah, i've heard that too - i guess it's just Flood who says they were the best live band.
― tylerw, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:45 (seven years ago) link
Reading that, and this thread, made me come to the idea that Billy was cursed with a talent for making amazing guitar sounds and symphonic rock music, and by teaming with Jimmy they inevitably made high-fructose, insanely palatable hard rock that was the perfect distillation of what the mainstream market wanted to hear at the time, myself included. BUT, and it's a big BUT, he had nothing to say beyond "sucks to be me". So this band is making beautiful, bombastic, addictive music, the platonic ideal of 90s rock, and in order to get that you have to listen to a guy mining his one-note personality in ever-increasing depth. As soon as the palatability of the music falls away, you're left resenting how much attention you paid to the guy's trivial whining. And the public persona from Machina on, which coincided with the rise of online access to artists and the ability of the artist to speak directly to the public rather than through a PR machine, placed the focus ever more squarely on the whiny-dick aspect which just soured the relationship with the public further.
― MatthewK, Friday, 23 September 2016 21:46 (seven years ago) link
Reminds of The Great Lost Project he had at the end of the original band there, the animation/story "Glass and the Machines of God" thing:
https://spfreaks.wordpress.com/2012/09/30/the-story-of-glass-and-the-machines-of-god/
If Corgan can put all that stuff on the radio channel on the reissue I would be appreciative. But in the meantime!
https://spfreaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/pic02.jpg
(I don't think it's any surprise that Gerard Way figured out how to do this angle much more effectively.)
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:03 (seven years ago) link
BTW if you want to feel your face melt, try reading this. (You won't succeed.)
https://spfreaks.wordpress.com/2000/01/01/glass-and-the-machines-of-god-a-modern-fable/
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:05 (seven years ago) link
As for the original band live, I have enough bootlegs -- and my own memories -- to know that they could bring it as they chose. That said I think the best they were overall was at the start of the 90s -- we're talking 1991, Billy seemed to be more given to being in a trance on stage more than anything else -- and during the 2000 shows, so essentially the beginning and end of the phase. The late 1996 arena show I saw which was them making up for the earlier cancellation after Melvion died was too big and crazed for its own good. But I will say that the two 1994 shows at Lollapalooza I saw (here and here) definitely had great moments, and that first one starting with "Geek USA" into "Rocket" was one of those jawdropping moments. Everything just WORKED.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:14 (seven years ago) link
As discussed elsewhere, their homecoming Lollapalooza gig on that tour was terrible.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:38 (seven years ago) link
I was at the '94 Lollapalooza show at the Concord Pavillion and it was godawful. Corgan hectoring/whining at the audience throughout, songs cut short/played ineptly, extended wankery, terrible singing, loads of false starts etc. We left early.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:44 (seven years ago) link
Note I said moments. Not the whole thing, believe me.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:45 (seven years ago) link
re: zeitgeist cover
the sun is rising on a new age of american dominance as sea levels drastically fall after american scientists come up with a geoengineering breakthrough that generates only american flags as a side effect
― I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Friday, 23 September 2016 22:46 (seven years ago) link
They were sort of weird and uneven at the final Metro show too, but great at the final United Center.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 September 2016 22:49 (seven years ago) link
saw them at the chicago suburbs stop on the adore tour, fwiw they seemed a totally solid arena act. Mostly good, a couple of great moments, none of the disastrous stuff mentioned a few posts up.
― intheblanks, Saturday, 24 September 2016 16:50 (seven years ago) link
I interviewed Butch Vig a couple of weeks ago and he said by comparison they spent like fifteen days on Nevermind
― tongue and cheek (stevie), Saturday, 24 September 2016 17:11 (seven years ago) link
re: the excellent tapeop piece, I had no idea Adore was originally a Billy solo album. Don't think that's ever been made public.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 25 September 2016 04:35 (seven years ago) link
It makes total sense. That fact that it was billed as an SP album was most likely a marketing thing above all -- can't imagine a BC solo album would have sold half as much, especially given the material.
BC and JC's collective delusion re: Machina and Zeitgeist is depressing.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 25 September 2016 07:19 (seven years ago) link
Delusions about what? They've admitted the record was a failure in many respects - unfinished, didn't sell well, not marketed correctly - but they're talking about snare compression and mic bleed here. I don't think JC is necessarily deluded when he says the production on Machina was the culmination of their sound. It's geek shit. Bill's "undersea" description of the sound is spot on. Not going to defend Zeitgeist.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 25 September 2016 15:20 (seven years ago) link
Agreed re: Machina. And I freely admit I really want that remastered box to come out.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 September 2016 15:35 (seven years ago) link