Their live show is face-meltingly loud, almost as loud as Melt-Banana
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, 8 October 2015 19:55 (eight years ago) link
there's a bit in a pitchfork interview where he and his bandmates are just wandering around a jewish steam-room being all reflective and euphoric and it's pretty much the perfect evocation of why everyone hates them and why they're awesome. fwiw i reckon HHH is probably a mensch irl
'follow II' is a song that must, MUST have been written with me in mind. it's scarily close to what i'd want from a seven and a half minute metal song
ha melt-banana are the best gig i've ever been to, will have to see liturgy if they come around here
― twunty fifteen (imago), Thursday, 8 October 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link
they're coming in a couple of weeks and I intend to be there
btw this album is absolutely extraordinary - 'follow II' is one of those pieces of music I'm staggered even exists - it feels like I must have dreamt it
― twunty fifteen (imago), Saturday, 17 October 2015 21:40 (eight years ago) link
Really, dude? Really?!
― si monvmentvm reqvires, pvmpkin spice (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 17 October 2015 22:51 (eight years ago) link
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, October 8, 2015 12:55 PM (1 week ago)
That was not my experience.
― sarahell, Saturday, 17 October 2015 23:12 (eight years ago) link
Mine either (although when I saw them they were just two dudes).
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 17 October 2015 23:23 (eight years ago) link
Yeah really. What is the beef?
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 10:59 (eight years ago) link
No beef! I just don't find it, uh, oneiric.
― si monvmentvm reqvires, pvmpkin spice (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 18 October 2015 11:26 (eight years ago) link
To my ears it's charmless, depthless and so poorly produced as to be laughable; as someone who's listened to metal for thirty years and weird noise for twenty, I feel like I should be able to hear something in it that the fans hear.
So you guys can think I'm blind to it's grand beauty, I'll go back to listening to Tyranny and ignoring the fulsome praise people are heaping on Ark Work.
― si monvmentvm reqvires, pvmpkin spice (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 18 October 2015 11:31 (eight years ago) link
I haven't seen The Ark Work get a good reception ANYWHERE outside a few scattered dudes with odd taste though. I understand your reaction though, sometimes I can't help but be baffled when I see lots of praise for something I think is objectively terrible.
― ultros ultros-ghali, Sunday, 18 October 2015 12:14 (eight years ago) link
Seriously, this record is not popular. On RYM it has 2.71 out of 5 - for comparison's sake, Miley Cyrus And Her Dead Petz has 2.45. People are going well out of their way to pile on the hate. Even most of those who like it have severe reservations. Only a few mad souls are hip to Hunter's vibe, yo
(I think it is a crazy and ambitious experiment in sound and narrative that largely succeeds because rather than despite of the lengths it goes to to synthesise seemingly incongruent sonic palettes - it is an arrogant work, and all the better for this)
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 13:43 (eight years ago) link
also it is bad
― adam, Sunday, 18 October 2015 14:03 (eight years ago) link
but less bad than the other liturgy records
― adam, Sunday, 18 October 2015 14:04 (eight years ago) link
honestly if they had made a whole album of "fanfare" I would be repping hard for these guys as an interesting (if not really related to metal) act - it develops really nicely, strikes me an an honest piece of "modern classical" writing
the rest of this is really pretty unoriginal to my ear, there are a ton of black metal bands from finland and norway and france who've been covering this kinda ground musically for ages. the one thing that's different is the indie-rock horns, or soft-horns, which I rather like in terms of what they're doing musically - but this whole Brooklyn approach to metal -- "it's black metal...plus horns! it's black metal...plus shoegaze!" is so tiresome. maybe just write good black metal and quit gunning for that BNM by being novel with the kitchen-sink biz?
― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 18 October 2015 14:07 (eight years ago) link
I like the two previous albums a lot, but I haven't even made it through this one.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 18 October 2015 14:28 (eight years ago) link
the other two felt like (per jd) brooklyny genre exercises while the new one is at least kind of absurd in its blog-bait nature (or whatever the 2015 equivalent is).
i think it is a little strange that for all the goofy black metal appropriations and corpse paint minstrel show stuff of the past 10 years no one has decided to mash up "good production" and "black metal." all the liturgy stuff sounds almost as crummy as some one man ukrainian nazi bandcamp shit despite having an infinitely larger recording budget.
― adam, Sunday, 18 October 2015 15:08 (eight years ago) link
despite having an infinitely larger recording budget
Where's your evidence for this? They're on Thrill Jockey, not Roadrunner or even Metal Blade.
Also, there are plenty of black metal bands with good production! The French bands sound amazing, as does Satyricon (who just made a double live album with a fucking orchestra) and probably a million others, going back to Dimmu Borgir and Cradle of Filth in the late '90s/early '00s.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 18 October 2015 15:30 (eight years ago) link
idk i feel like there are bands on thrill jockey that manage to record on a drumkit that's not made of papier-mache.
point taken re: french bm bands and the dimmu/cof type bands, though that stuff veers closer to over- rather than well-produced
― adam, Sunday, 18 October 2015 15:38 (eight years ago) link
i just want drums that sound good tbh. that cheesy deafheaven album has good drums
― adam, Sunday, 18 October 2015 15:40 (eight years ago) link
Seriously, this record is not popular. On RYM it has 2.71 out of 5 - for comparison's sake,
"Seriously, a site that thinks Madvillainy is one of the 100 greatest records of all time doesn't like this album"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 18 October 2015 17:59 (eight years ago) link
there are a ton of black metal bands from finland and norway and france who've been covering this kinda ground musically for ages
to an extent, but I do often try to listen to such music and to my ears this sounds like it is genuinely up to something different, both in the use of shifting rhythms and the chiming rasping electronic textural overload - it is euphoric art-rock more than BM perhaps but this does not invalidate it
maybe just write good black metal and quit gunning for that BNM by being novel with the kitchen-sink biz?
I believe HHH when he says this is the closest he's gotten to recording the sound in his head. I don't suspect he'd be good at just good pop black metal because his heart would not be in it. he is a precocious little shit who's biting off barely as much as he cam chew - he is shooting at the moon because he can't see anywhere beneath it. I can well empathise with this - leave prudence and timeworn craft to those who have the patience to make such music. we need our stubborn innovators too, even if they're really truly in actual fact making 2007-era indie rock (comparable examples please)
also his songwriting narratives are p exciting to me - the way follow ii builds and then dissolves over and over again into the abyss - that is spectacular imo and I have heard an awful lot of spectacular music
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 18:26 (eight years ago) link
Whiney yr not srsly going to make me cherrypick something worse outta the Acclaimed Music top hundred right
it's crude but it illustrates just how much antipathy the metal community, very many of whom post to RYM, has for the album
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 18:34 (eight years ago) link
What other albums does this sound like? I thought it was fairly unique which is why it's been singled out for hatred. I mean if there's other stuff like this out there I want to hear it
― ultros ultros-ghali, Sunday, 18 October 2015 18:48 (eight years ago) link
I just wish all the huffy dismissal that H3 gets was directed at Deafheaven tbh
― ultros ultros-ghali, Sunday, 18 October 2015 18:53 (eight years ago) link
the two bands aren't really anything alike, which is why their mention rankles
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 19:31 (eight years ago) link
but yeah, Deafheaven are turgid dullardry, I get the sense that Liturgy are seen as more 'anti-metal' though, which is a shame, because I thought the point of metal was to be extreme
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 19:33 (eight years ago) link
because I thought the point of metal was to be extreme
only 15 year olds say that
― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 18 October 2015 19:51 (eight years ago) link
ok, I thought the point of metal was to convey the extremities of human experience, especially viz à vis death and the infinite
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 19:53 (eight years ago) link
anyway, that isn't the post you all have to answer. the two posts in response to JCLC and Whiney are the ones you have to answer, not the sidetrack shit dissing deafheaven who shouldn't even be in this thread
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 19:55 (eight years ago) link
I'm not sure you know much about metals history
― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 18 October 2015 20:02 (eight years ago) link
why did I give you all an easy tangent with which to berate me
state of music discourse on here I swear
― twunty fifteen (imago), Sunday, 18 October 2015 20:52 (eight years ago) link
which black metal albums pass the bechdel test?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, 18 October 2015 21:37 (eight years ago) link
― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 18 October 2015 21:02 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm not being funny but how does this even matter?
If extreme metal's not forging onwards and upwards what's the fucking point?
I trawl through so many mediocre metal albums on a weekly basis I really wish metal wasn't so in love with it's own shitty "heritage."
― ultros ultros-ghali, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:04 (eight years ago) link
well imago tried to tell us that metal is supposed to be extreme etc yet he admits he has no interest in its history and hasnt listened to many old bands; so how does he know?
― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:08 (eight years ago) link
if he wasnt trying to tell some lifers what metal is about of course it wouldnt matter.
― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:10 (eight years ago) link
fwiw i prefer bands these days who do like to push on with the genre and if that includes 'brooklynisation' then so be it. imago and i like a lot of similar things, it just annoys me when he dismisses some stuff that at times is better than the examples he gives.
― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:12 (eight years ago) link
but i will defer any more replies to smithy as he puts it a lot better than I ever could.
― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:13 (eight years ago) link
"If extreme metal's not forging onwards and upwards what's the fucking point?"
fat beats. tasty likks. i will listen to all these mediocre metal records. okay, maybe not mediocre. but i will listen to all these par for the course metal records.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:29 (eight years ago) link
do you know how many garage band hendrix covers i've heard in my life? 4,039,939. very few of them elevated the discussion. kinda love them all.
― scott seward, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:31 (eight years ago) link
i do not care for liturgy. the vocals really bug me though. i like the new ghost bath album! that's an album godspeed you black emperor fans would like. or agalloch fans. i dunno, they are just dorks from north dakota that pretended to be from china, but i dig it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnz7lcei1IA
― scott seward, Monday, 19 October 2015 01:50 (eight years ago) link
why is it people still buy into the myth of progress in music when it's been thoroughly debunked everywhere else
autopsy has been spinning their wheels for twenty years and are considerably better than any dozen BUT LOOK HERE, THEY PLAYED AN OUD ON THEIR METAL ALBUM bros
― tremendous crime wave and killing wave (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 19 October 2015 01:53 (eight years ago) link
Yep. Go "onward and upward" your own ass all you want. I'll be over here with my Obituary albums.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 19 October 2015 02:14 (eight years ago) link
― twunty fifteen (imago), Monday, 19 October 2015 06:22 (eight years ago) link
this was my first impression on hearing the Ark Work, haven't listened since (and in fairness, I should):
First time listening to this band. I've heard the drummer Greg Fox a few times, mostly improv stuff, and was always really impressed. Saw him do a trio with Trevor Dunn (Mr Bungle) and Colin Stetson on sax, and it was totally engaging, like a weird cross of extreme metal and free-jazz.
This, on the other hand, is pretty bullshit as far as I can tell. A lot of stroking and never cumming. Minor modes get pounded for scores of minutes a time, and never really pay off to anything worthwhile. The singer has a monotone whine that not only doesn't service the music, it actively dissuades me from believing any of this is more than a project of desperate boredom, of someone trying in vain to force blood out of a particularly bland turnip. By comparison, stack it up against the Dodheimsgard record, which has the exact opposite problem -- LOADS of ambition and originality that might turn folks off because it has too many disparate ideas. Liturgy sound like they don't have enough, and (over) compensate by banging the shit out of them.
Who knows, maybe if I listen more, stuff will seem better.
and yeah, the talk about Deafheaven's drummer on the other thread relevant here, because Greg Fox really is one of the more interesting drummers working today, and I wish this band was anywhere as interesting as his playing
― Dominique, Monday, 19 October 2015 13:40 (eight years ago) link
otm
― insufficiently familiar with xgau's work to comment intelligently (BradNelson), Monday, 19 October 2015 13:50 (eight years ago) link
Oh, I think the Dodheimsgard album is significantly better - I think it's one of the best metal albums of this century so far if not ever, for what that's worth
― twunty fifteen (imago), Monday, 19 October 2015 13:52 (eight years ago) link
I also listened to Orthrelm's OV in its entirety earlier, just for fun so bear THAT in mind too, yo
― twunty fifteen (imago), Monday, 19 October 2015 13:53 (eight years ago) link
It's just...yeah, there's a melodic theme which 4 or 5 of the songs return to, but it's rendered differently each time - it's better to think of the album as a single piece, really. It doesn't have nearly so many ideas as Dodheimsgard but imo it has a very vibrant and original character; sure, it is the insistent hallelujah of the irksome prig who knows he is saved, but to me there is something wonderful in how much conflict and sonic rancour he must fight through to achieve his epiphany. In some ways, also, it is a subtle album (don't laugh!) with very slight shifts in momentum that add up to more than bland repetition
― twunty fifteen (imago), Monday, 19 October 2015 13:57 (eight years ago) link
I did used to love that Orthrelm record a lot when it came out, haven't heard it in a while -- but I suspect I'd at least like it now. Offhand, the main striking difference between it and Liturgy is that Orthrelm aren't dramatic (and certainly not melodramatic). They do their thing, and you can take it or leave it -- it only gets annoying if you can't hang with really high pitched repetition, which is almost a physical barrier for listening. The barrier I had with Liturgy was more artistic in nature. (and if I was going to have issues with Dodheimsgard, they'd also be artistic rather than physical -- but I don't have those issues for whatever reason)
― Dominique, Monday, 19 October 2015 14:01 (eight years ago) link
A lot of stroking and never cumming.it's 2015 can we stop saying stuff like this?
Greg Fox really is one of the more interesting drummers working today, and I wish this band was anywhere as interesting as his playingotm, he is the only reason i went to see liturgy
― La Lechera, Monday, 19 October 2015 14:02 (eight years ago) link