ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

Railing against the split infinitive "rule" at this point is almost as dusty as the rule. However, generally speaking, careful usage is an indicator of, though by no means inextricable from, careful thought. "Entering the room, it was nice to see my old friends" may not be unclear, but "Entering the room, Jessica came into my view" is -- is the speaker entering the room or Jessica? Following the usage "rule" prevents that kind of sloppiness.

Agreed (to both Aimless and man alive)

is the speaker entering the room or Jessica

wait, LOL

I rest my case.

I find this bit irritating:

Any competent copy editor can turn a passage that is turgid, opaque, and filled with grammatical errors into a passage that is turgid, opaque, and free of grammatical errors.

A good copy editor can (and should) also keep it from being turgid and opaque. Or, if the passage cannot be rescued, recommend its deletion or query until the meaning is clear.

As man alive notes, these pop rule-refutations are themselves ancient. Miss Thistlebottom's Hobgoblins is my age (we were both published in 1971). I guess this may be news to some readers out there, but no editors or writers are surprised by them in the year two thousand fifteen.

yeah i'm not sure who pinker is railing against. i actually find myself agreeing w/ him much of the time, but he seems to fuel his own writing by heaping a lot of straw men on the fire.

imo things have shifted over the last ten to fifteen years - it might be my internet bubble, but a (loosely) descriptivist or usage-driven version of advice for clarity feels on top right now. Pinker's trailing this larger shift, & it seems fine - having a noisy pop academic on side is useful because the straw-men really are out there - useless usage rules seem to be extraordinarily sticky.

btw I don't disagree in principle about dangling participles – I'll only leave them if I'm editing to a pretty informal style - but I don't think "Entering the room, Jessica came into my view" is unclear. Jessica is entering the room.

& that's not because of a style-guide rule, but more because of descriptive grammar: the participle latches on to the subject of the sentence; with a dummy subject, it attaches to the implied speaker. (not a linguist, that's a rough guess at the working rule)

"As she entered the room, Jessica came into the room" is 1000x as clear.

otm

editing non-writers in the past couple years, i saw an ENORMOUS amount of '[ me ] arriving at the location, the associate [ i.e. someone else] greeted me warmly'

"As she entered the room, Jessica came into the room" is 1000x as clear.

― I might like you better if we Yelped together (Phil D.), Tuesday, October 6, 2015 2:57 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ugh, see, everyone needs an editor.

let's get back to the topic of entering Jessica

"Entering the room, Jessica came into my view" is 100% clear if you assume the writer is writing with proper usage. That's my point. If you don't stick to that rule, then you can wind up writing one thing when you mean the other.

I mean in Pinker's example it works ok because the "it" doesn't represent a specific thing or object, just an idiomatic way of saying that he felt happy. 95% of the time, it actually would be unclear to write that sentence without the subject of the sentence following the comma.

After entering the room, who came into my view but Jessica!

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/comma-queen-spelling-insurance?mbid=social_twitter

this woman regularly infuriates me

"true, ensure and insure mean different things, but we use insure for everything, why because the style guide some says to use the 'in-' form for every 'en-/in-" prefix, well that is not counting this long list of exceptions"

DIE

Wait, so this person has been proofreading for the country's leading high-middlebrow rag since 1978 and still doesn't get the difference between these two words? How can this be?

i think she understands the difference, she just defers to the style guide

Help! What the hell is the plural of Lopez? Par example: Mr. and Mrs. Lopez bought a care. The Lopezs (Lopez's?) love their new car.

I used to know this shit but then I went to grad school, which has made me dumber.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/19/sports/la-sp-oly-taekwondo-lopez-20120520

lopezes?

Lopezes

Los Lopez

I would actually love to use Los Lopez, but Lopezes it shall be. Thanks! I tried writing it with the -es at first and it just looked so damn wrong. I do very muchprefer the grammarians of ILX to the ding-dongs of Google. Muchos gracias.

Now would anyone like to finish writing this paper about Los Lopez for me

had a similar brain hurdle with the plural of "yes" today but it was for a comment on a blog spot so i wrote yesses (yeses? yes’s? yeezus?) and moved on.

Along those lines, copyedited someone this morning who referred to the Peoples' Republic of China.

I mean, you could almost convince yourself that's right, even though it's not. Much like Communism.

Is there any implication of events being related if you use the word 'subsequently'? Or am I conflating it with 'consequently'?
Someone's drafted something similar to the following but it seems off to me:
"We wrote to you setting out your situation and explaining that we would do X. Subsequently, we did not receive any objection."

Maybe the word is in the wrong place? I've looked at it for too long now and it's become meaningless

I think "subsequently" is used correctly there, in terms of its meaning, but it sounds officious and maybe a little passive-aggressive.

"Since writing, we have not received any objection" or something like that would have a more neutral tone.

I'm struggling here today with "spatula" as the name of the utensil used to flip a pancake, rather than the one used to scrape batter from a bowl

also I experienced a discernible uptick in blood pressure as a result of "step foot in" appearing in an NPR headline

I agree that 'subsequently' is used correctly in the example provided, but it is extraneous and better to leave it out.

Yeah, I just deleted it in the end. I realised the writer had left it in from a version where 'subsequently' they had received an objection.

also why tf am I doing this on a Saturday afternoon with a sick kid

I'm struggling here today with "spatula" as the name of the utensil used to flip a pancake, rather than the one used to scrape batter from a bowl

also I experienced a discernible uptick in blood pressure as a result of "step foot in" appearing in an NPR headline

― Brad C., Saturday, March 19, 2016 11:23 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think this usage of spatula arose because there is possibly no good word for the utensil used to flip a pancake, and it sounds especially dumb to call it a "pancake turner" when the thing you are flipping is not pancakes.

fish slice? even though I never slice fish with it

growing up we called it an egg flip

I think I might use the same implement to scrape things in a bowl and to flip (more like gently turn over) a pancake. Don't really understand the difference. A spatula, for me, is a flat rectangle on the end of a stick, and some are bigger than others, some have holes, some are plastic, some are wooden etc. I have a lot of objects like this, and it doesn't bother me that they vary so much: it's my spatula collection.

how is the thing not called a spatula have i been corrupted

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61AhXv6rOBL._SL1200_.jpg

Spatulas

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Q1dWUPA2L._SL1500_.jpg

Fish slice/egg flip/pancake turner/not a spatula

^ Precisely the opposite of what my sister's home ec teacher told her, apparently, based on a story where this teacher screamed about the taxonomy of rubber kitchen implements

(former is a 'rubber scraper' and the latter is a 'spatula' according to said teacher)

but its 2016 and who cares

Is this a Commonwealth/US thing? Or is it just some modern marketing department not knowing what else to call one or the other of these things?

we may be veering into 'what is a hot dog' territory

there can be different kinds of spatulas it's ok

In the US a fish slice is regarded as a type of spatula and may be called a turner

i have a different kind of question for the copyeditors and grammar fiends of ilx - is it possible to make a living (or something approaching one) from freelance proofreading/copyediting without certificates and/or a ready pool of contacts? (my one selling point being a doctorate in the humanities, which i guess proves i'm basically capable of reading and writing.)

i call it a flatula

a slotted turn! That's what mine was actually called.