also in this era: the gopherguts practice of calling any post one disagrees with "SJW clickbait" (meanwhile, breitbart is A-OK and not trolling for clicks at all) without engaging with the content
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:26 (eight years ago) link
katherine otm
― marcos, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:27 (eight years ago) link
idgaf about the pitchfork piece i really have no idea what it is talking about but i think the term "SJW" is pretty gross and dismissive and i wouldn't use it myself
― marcos, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:31 (eight years ago) link
even if i am kind of mildly annoyed by some things one might call "SJW clickbait"
― marcos, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:32 (eight years ago) link
I mean sure I wish some pieces were a little longer on the substance but this sort of thing is a hop, skip and a jump from doxing someone for their opinions on fucking drake
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:43 (eight years ago) link
yeah well "SJW clickbait" is ridiculous because it implies that social justice topics are things that bring people to music sites as opposed to loss-leaders for the greater good
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:53 (eight years ago) link
wait, who here likes breitbart?
― TheFatSJW (D-40), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:53 (eight years ago) link
im pro sjw don't get me wrong, i thought we were reclaiming that
the key word in whiney's tweet was 'performative'
― TheFatSJW (D-40), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:54 (eight years ago) link
Can't believe people actually want socials justice. Do they want things to get BETTER? /s
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:57 (eight years ago) link
im pro sjw don't get me wrong, i thought we were reclaiming thatthe key word in whiney's tweet was 'performative'― TheFatSJW (D-40), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:54 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yes, I'm pro-SJW too. I'm sure everyone on ILX is. This 100 times
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 20:59 (eight years ago) link
I'm talking more about the performative disingenuousness of things like this
http://www.spin.com/2015/09/deafheavens-guitarist-used-homophobic-slurs-on-twitter/
Wherein a straight white male writer pretends to clutch his pearls and be TAKEN ABACK by the "ugly slurs" and "foolish, hurtful language" of three year old tweets, boldly asserting that "Using f*ggot as an insult is never okay."
When really, A) Uh doy, no shit, all 300 (maybe?) adults that are going to read this garbage aggregation post knows that homophobic language is wrong. Why are you explaining "homophobia = bad" to me like I'm a fucking 10-year-old?
and B) It's all just a performance of "FOR THE GREATER GOOD" when really all he's doing is getting tabloidy clicks off shaming some metal dork
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:00 (eight years ago) link
Or the Bob's Burger post where I AM GOOD ALLY finds some convoluted way to twist the idea that cartoon songs get his dick hard?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:01 (eight years ago) link
Also the complicity in reprinting those words over and over and giving them extra attention.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:02 (eight years ago) link
i thought the ironic part about SJW was the "W" part -- i.e. people who get a self-righteous buzz from condemning people on social media, thinking they are doing battle for the greater good, but really just resounding in an echo chamber. i guess some people use "SJW" to mock the "SJ" part, too...
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:02 (eight years ago) link
:(
Yes a lot of it is the self-righteous mocking the self-righteous.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:04 (eight years ago) link
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:02 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is giving the guys of gamergate a lot more credit than they deserve. they actively think ppl who are feminist are brainwashed by SJWs. that doesn't suggest to me they're critiquing echo chambers equally, lol
― TheFatSJW (D-40), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:04 (eight years ago) link
*feminists
― TheFatSJW (D-40), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:05 (eight years ago) link
Would be down for a dedicated thread cos it feels like I run across SJW-based conspiracies in comment sections all over the internet.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:07 (eight years ago) link
this is giving the guys of gamergate
see, i haven't been following this at all and only have the faintest idea of what it is (i don't play computer games and haven't for decades), so perhaps i'm insulated from some of the worst stuff.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:08 (eight years ago) link
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:59 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh wait forgot about Mordy, lol
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:08 (eight years ago) link
Super into a bunch of straight white dudes (correct me if I'm wrong!) determining what is or isn't performative when it comes to social justice, I'd call it policing but a bunch of you are gonna get all twisted about it I know
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:15 (eight years ago) link
sorry, I'm just extremely hardline on this because I was there for the first wave (fortunately too obscure there to be targeted, but one degree of separation from those who were) and I am very much not thrilled about experiencing the sequel in music writing
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:15 (eight years ago) link
i do get a little annoyed when people refer to ILX as all straight white dudes. makes me think they don't read ILX (or at least the threads i read idk)
― marcos, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:20 (eight years ago) link
If whiney and deej are queer, that's news to me
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:22 (eight years ago) link
The passive aggressive tone police
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:23 (eight years ago) link
marcos otm
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:24 (eight years ago) link
deej and whiney are their own special duo/brand of police
Super into a bunch of straight white dudes (correct me if I'm wrong!) determining what is or isn't performative when it comes to social justice,
in 20 years nearly this entire sentence will be inscrutable to all but the most diligent academic historians of social media
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:25 (eight years ago) link
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and there are more people than whiney and deej participating in this conversation
― marcos, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:27 (eight years ago) link
Yes, and they're the ones who are talking about performativity
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:27 (eight years ago) link
wait you're concerned about straight white males policing straight white males policing straight white males when does this Matryoshka doll end
― TheFatSJW (D-40), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:29 (eight years ago) link
I apologize if I mislabelled anyone but it's clear that I fucking hate when people call things in this area performative (and I've done it myself so don't get me wrong, I'm trying to be better too) because 99% of the time, it's just projection and distracting from the actual substance of the critique or w/e
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:31 (eight years ago) link
while we're on the subject this piece rubbed me the wrong way for a number of reasons http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/903-why-michete-is-the-worst-queer-rapper-you-need-to-listen-to/
mostly because the writer only seems to understand how to discuss/analyze music in the context of backlash, in this case perceived & nonexistent backlash against a version of progressivism. there are a bunch of phrases like "this will disturb listeners" but the shit has like 500 soundcloud plays. there are other ways to write about music!!
then there's all this handwringing about whether a non-black rapper is sufficiently persecuted enough to non-offensively perform the task of rapping. the writer literally, like, ticks off boxes that allow you to rap in good conscience? and then he just handwaves the potential offensive aspects of the rapper he's writing about by being like "if you're non-straight your life may be so fucked up that it's ok if you don't care about the things i say you're supposed to care about." i think at one point in his twisted point about when it's ok to be a rapper he is like "we should praise this rapper for not actually caring about any of this" lol
even the logical fallacies are so wrapped up in twisted politics, it was making my head spin. like the fact that the writer & headline openly admit that the rapper is not good but the conclusion of the piece is basically "if you don't like this rapper it means you're at best a prude but if not probably a homophobe"
in any event i think we all agree on the worthwhile of this general worldview but that it produces pieces like this is rather depressing to me
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:41 (eight years ago) link
terrible piece on a terrible rapper
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:44 (eight years ago) link
I apologize if I mislabelled anyone but it's clear that I fucking hate when people call things in this area performative (and I've done it myself so don't get me wrong, I'm trying to be better too) because 99% of the time, it's just projection and distracting from the actual substance of the critique or w/e― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:31 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:31 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I actually don't see the harm in distracting from the "critique" of "Some dude from a hipster metal band said f*ggot three years ago and that is wrong"
Especially when ~100% of the people who read ILX and SPIN already know that is a bad thing
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:52 (eight years ago) link
Like why can't you talk to me like a fucking adult?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 21:56 (eight years ago) link
A lot of music writing is very bad and self-indulgent and intellectually dishonest, so it ought not be surprising that some writing which also invokes political ideas we agree with and support would share these qualities. To my mind a lot of the pearl clutching about race and gender politics has filled the structural void previously occupied by pearl clutching about "selling out" now that the latter concept has become so diffuse. But I would also say that the uptick in discussion of these issues has produced a lot of excellent writing as well.
Which makes me wonder if there is a secret canon of great past writing about the ethics of selling out.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:00 (eight years ago) link
I wouldn't call that post "performative" so much as "we need to put this up but can't just embed the tweets by themselves"
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:02 (eight years ago) link
that said I'm a straight white male so interpret my opinion with that in mind
Whiney, I agree with you in this instance because I know who you're talking about (Ott) and, yeah, most of us prob have better things to do than go after three year-old tweets BUT as a QPOC myself, I'm generally just not ever gonna like the idea of straight white dudes who aren't affected either way by the effects of inequality/social justice ever being in the position to say who is or isn't working for my benefit
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:07 (eight years ago) link
xpost the post isn't performative, the writing in the post is
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:09 (eight years ago) link
*mostly affected, I know there are still benefits/downsides to/for you guys, don't worry
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:09 (eight years ago) link
I'm def not talking about Ott. I think it's 100% appropriate for Twitter and message boards to gossip and say look at the homophobic dipshit from Deafheaven
I'm saying when websites run by cis whiteboys run it as "news" with this po-faced tone of "the struggle is... so real," I personally find it super condescending and disingenous.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 22:20 (eight years ago) link
"A lot of music writing is very bad and self-indulgent and intellectually dishonest, so it ought not be surprising that some writing which also invokes political ideas we agree with and support would share these qualities."
what that guy said.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 30 September 2015 23:43 (eight years ago) link
xp - quick someone start a poll of the most condescending and disinguous Whiney G posts
― sarahell, Thursday, 1 October 2015 00:02 (eight years ago) link
disingenuous even
Anyone else always hear the term "Coco Rosie" to the tune of "Who is...Johnny"?
― how's life, Thursday, 1 October 2015 00:33 (eight years ago) link
If whiney and deej are queer, that's news to me― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, September 30, 2015 5:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Meta Forksclove-Liebeskind (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 1 October 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 30, 2015 4:53 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wait so ur saying pitchfork don't make $$$ off The Pitch? why else would it exist? it's awful & shits all over their brand
― flopson, Thursday, 1 October 2015 00:59 (eight years ago) link