Anime for people who hate anime

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This was Google's first result, anyone want to comment on any of these? http://www.themarysue.com/josei-anime/

the naive cockney chorus (Simon H.), Wednesday, 16 September 2015 02:02 (eight years ago) link

wow, that ping pong series looks amazing! excited to see it's on hulu.

the late great, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 04:29 (eight years ago) link

From that Josei list:
Michiko & Hatchin stars two female characters but it's much closer to Black Lagoon/Tarantino territory, lots of action set pieces and stylish baddies. It's really well made but is twice as long as it needs to be tbh, towards the end you will be dreading yet another car chase. Which is rarely said about Jane Austen.
Princess Jellyfish is really good, lots of interesting characters although some can be a bit too one dimensional, particularly the one mentioned in the article.
A series that is currently airing called Snow White With The Red Hair caught me by surprise and might be the purest Josei show I've ever enjoyed. As you can guess from the title it has a fairytale like quality, with a commoner girl and a dashing young prince falling in love. What sets it apart though is the title character, a strong willed girl who feels like she's walked out of a Ghibli movie, you can't help but cheer her on.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 16 September 2015 05:52 (eight years ago) link

etc, you might want to look into honey & clover (about a group of students at an art school), nana (about the friendship between two women, one a fashion student and one a rock musician), nodame cantabile (about the romantic relationship between a pianist and an aspiring conductor), his and her circumstances (the show hideaki anno made after evangelion, about the romantic relationship between two high school students), and revolutionary girl utena (hard to summarize?)

1staethyr, Thursday, 17 September 2015 08:21 (eight years ago) link

also, a lot of the shows mentioned itt originally aired as part of fuji tv's noitamina block, which is specifically dedicated to programming that appeals to ppl outside of the young male demographic. the noitamina lineup is a p good place to look for "mature" anime in a bunch of different genres

1staethyr, Thursday, 17 September 2015 08:28 (eight years ago) link

two weeks pass...

reporting back

PING PONG

Watched all of this one - the animation is obv incredible but what surprised me about it is the persistent and convincing bittersweetness, which helped offset how predictable many/most of the plot/character beats really are. Into it.

KIDS ON THE SLOPE

Also watched all of this, liked it less. The musical sequences are incredible and kept me going. As w/ many shows like this (regardless of genre) the relatively subtly homoerotic friendship >>>>>> the neverending tedium of the actual "romances." (Tho I admit that I have a problem w/ series wherein 100% of the long-running conflicts could be solved with one frank conversation.)

tried UTENA but it's just too mid-90s for me. a couple eps into MUSHI-SHI - animation's gorgeous, stories seem a bit intert? will keep trying.

the naive cockney chorus (Simon H.), Thursday, 1 October 2015 19:23 (eight years ago) link

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-AHo-_XEV6E

Maybe most of you guys know all this stuff but its just a little video about the difficulties of making anime.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 1 October 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link

good timing on that as it frequently refers to Manglobe (Champloo, Michiko) who finally filed for bankruptcy the other day

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Thursday, 1 October 2015 22:00 (eight years ago) link

Just finished watching Gosenzosama Banbanzai, a pretty bizarre and funny six-part OVA from the late 80s. It's one of Mamoru Oshii's more obscure efforts (like that odd "Twilight Q" short), about a girl who travels back in time to live with her ancestors. The whole thing is presented like a stage play, making it pretty unique.

I know Oshii made a big splash with Ghost in the Shell, but I actually think that was his last really good film (though I haven't seen his live action stuff, and discount Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade, which he wrote but didn't direct).

Duane Barry, Saturday, 3 October 2015 17:22 (eight years ago) link

five months pass...

so uh toonami is producing two new season of flcl

HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Thursday, 24 March 2016 21:47 (eight years ago) link

Nice!

i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu), Friday, 25 March 2016 00:54 (eight years ago) link

three months pass...

brave new world

Nhex, Tuesday, 5 July 2016 22:28 (seven years ago) link

oops. didn't realize this was a 3 month revive

Nhex, Tuesday, 5 July 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link

I've just started the new anime version of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable, and it really defies description (although Merritt Kopas's phrase "Twink Peaks" is pretty apt, as long as you bear in mind that it also involves spectral combat and Gauguin-like color clashes): an escaped serial killer has just been fused into a living statue by a vengeful high school student after attempting to infiltrate the student's house as a malign spirit in rainwater, and this is two episodes in. Idk what kind of relation to anime the ideal viewer would have, but it's certainly distinctive.

one way street, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 00:33 (seven years ago) link

Jojo is so batshit, i love it

clouds, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 15:31 (seven years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Neo-Tokyo was really good

, Monday, 1 August 2016 16:52 (seven years ago) link

three months pass...

finishing up 'puella magi madoka magica' after reading that it rivals evangelion (it doesn't, but i still have a few eps left so maybe it will!)
it's on netflix with or without subs so check it out!

bitcoin bajas (diamonddave85), Monday, 14 November 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link

though in the spirit of this thread, i think people who hate anime would hate this one

bitcoin bajas (diamonddave85), Monday, 14 November 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link

yeh Madoka is hella anime. You have to put off watching the last two episodes for two months to get the authentic original release experience!

the crossover hit this year in Japan had been the new Shinkai (5cm/second, Garden Of Words) film Your Name.
It's already the 7th highest grossing film at the Japanese box office and looks like it's going to overhaul Howl and Mononoke soon.
Sounds like it became an anime for people who don't normally watch anime!
Looks like it's getting a very limited release in the West though.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Monday, 14 November 2016 22:46 (seven years ago) link

Mamoru Hosada's latest The Boy and the Beast will be released in DK next month. Checking his stuff out, the plots are quite intriguing, and Summer Wars was in Locarno. I have no idea what is hatable and non-hatable anime, though. Are people mad at Miyazaki? Or Ghost in the Shell type stuff?

Frederik B, Monday, 14 November 2016 22:54 (seven years ago) link

neither i think, just really specific genre stuff i'm guessing. madoka is magical girl for instance

incidentally i gotta see madoka, report back diamonddave

who is extremely unqualified to review this pop album (BradNelson), Monday, 14 November 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link

little witch academia y'all

clouds, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 02:51 (seven years ago) link

been meaning to watch madoka for ages but the animation style really puts me off

cosign little witch academia. dennou coil is another good one

klu, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 03:45 (seven years ago) link

I loooove Mindgame! And as often as it veers into utterly silly and corny porny territory I find it really inspiring. The whole "live your life to the fullest" theme is for some reason really infectious (which for me translated to getting off Facebook for a few days and getting a jumpstart on errands and chores to free up time for making music and catching up with friends, not exactly an epic adventure but a net plus)

Has anyone here seen Ergo Proxy? It felt like some kind of cross between Book of the New Sun (not saying it's anywhere near the brilliance, just some similar vibes) and the hazy memories I have of Final Fantasy plots from countless hours I used to spend watching friends play while not totally knowing what was going on. It's probably my fav anime series after NGE.

Fetchboy, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 05:39 (seven years ago) link

I think the reason Madoka gets compared to Evangelion is that both shows approach their respective genre in unconventional ways; if Eva is a "deconstruction" of giant mecha shows, then Madoka is the same for magical girl stories.

And yes, the two Little Witch Academia films are great!

Duane Barry, Wednesday, 16 November 2016 11:35 (seven years ago) link

yall weren't kidding about Mind Game. that film was incredible.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 11:56 (seven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

finished madoka, the final episodes were excellent: poignant while also attempting to reach for the stars in those confusing and mind-bending ways that we love anime for

watched the first episode of kill la kill last night and i'm torn. on the one hand, it has the most over the top insane, funny, frantic animation i think i've ever seen. on the other hand, waay over the top fan-service to the point of absurdity

just another (diamonddave85), Thursday, 1 December 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link

it's not fan service, it's a parody of it

clouds, Friday, 2 December 2016 15:06 (seven years ago) link

I haven't seen it but according to fans it does at times fully embrace plain fanservice.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 2 December 2016 15:13 (seven years ago) link

Can you call it a parody if it's indistinguishable from the thing it's supposedly parodying?
e.g. Nisioisin plays around a lot with tropes and stereotypes in the Monogatari series but sometimes falls flat on his face, leading to some incredibly gross scenes. I keep watching because there's some great stuff in there but goddamn it goes off the rails in awful ways sometimes.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Friday, 2 December 2016 15:23 (seven years ago) link

See Xtreme 90s American comics doing affectionate parodies of their own work.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 2 December 2016 15:31 (seven years ago) link

idk just watch it it's all explained and makes sense as a part of the plot (seriously)

clouds, Friday, 2 December 2016 15:36 (seven years ago) link

kill la kill is one of the most stunning anime series ever imo

clouds, Friday, 2 December 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link

fanservice isn't any less fanservice if it's explained or justified by the plot—the plot and setting of a given piece of fictional media aren't givens that exist outside of the control of the creator

1staethyr, Saturday, 3 December 2016 00:57 (seven years ago) link

No, you see these upskirts are ironic

ultros ultros-ghali, Saturday, 3 December 2016 01:02 (seven years ago) link

Anyway I've watched all of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure up to the current point over the last couple of months or so and all I can really say is that it's probably the most accurately named thing I've seen in my life. I don't think this series has been as good as the one before it but now that shit's getting real it's seriously compelling

ultros ultros-ghali, Saturday, 3 December 2016 01:07 (seven years ago) link

i've been meaning to read jjba for years and years but could never bring myself to get into a series with decades' worth of plot. i should probably just watch the show

1staethyr, Saturday, 3 December 2016 01:13 (seven years ago) link

wow, the golgo 13 manga has been going for 48 years

1staethyr, Saturday, 3 December 2016 01:16 (seven years ago) link

I don't read manga (not out of principle, just never got round to it I guess) but I can definitely recommend the JJBA anime as long as you can get past the first ten or so episodes (not bad but the prequel is very different in tone from the rest of it).

ultros ultros-ghali, Saturday, 3 December 2016 01:32 (seven years ago) link

Jojo has separate parts that can mostly be taken separately. And unless you're going to go for fan unauthorized versions, there's only three parts available so it's not overwhelming at all. The third part is where it really gets going, you might even start there.
I was never interested in any of the anime versions because they don't come close to Araki's drawing, which is sometimes really brilliant.

Check out those house keyrings
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/jjba/images/e/e1/Jojo6251.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110530230310

I've never read Golgo 13 but isn't it only short self-contained stories featuring the same guy?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 3 December 2016 02:22 (seven years ago) link

idk i haven't read it either, i was just looking at a list of the longest-running manga

1staethyr, Saturday, 3 December 2016 04:19 (seven years ago) link

Yes Golgo 13 is episodic and as it's long running some stories are good, some terrible, some are hilariously weird - usually when they intersect with real life events - Golgo gets hired to assassinate Princess Diana, was in prison with Mandela and cost Al Gore the 2000 election.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Saturday, 3 December 2016 04:37 (seven years ago) link

three months pass...

Knights of Sidonia S1 is for people who hate anime; S2 is... not.

Wes Brodicus, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 20:06 (seven years ago) link

Unless you can dig a pervert's spin on the tiredest of anime romcom cliches, and why would you, as an anime hater.

Wes Brodicus, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 20:08 (seven years ago) link

ahahaha yeah that was a weird one

just another (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 23:24 (seven years ago) link

apparently in the manga they get married

just another (diamonddave85), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 23:25 (seven years ago) link

I could handle a romance between a human and a foul-smelling mutant with a talking dick, but the mutant having the personality of a little girl crossed a line imo.

In other news, an adaptation of Nihei Tsutomu’s opus magnum Blame is coming to Netflix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwy806RC2-Q

Wes Brodicus, Thursday, 9 March 2017 13:25 (seven years ago) link

There's a decent discussion of this thread's subject in a comment thread here:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/09/11/wot-i-think-recettear-an-item-shops-tale/#comment-508137

I downloaded the first episode of pretty much all of them and.. have to get back to that project. But Akagi, a nerves-of-steel thriller about games of Mahjongg, is absolutely amazing.

Paranoia Agent is very good - one note is that the first episode contains an awful lot of people refusing to believe a young woman's account of events.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 9 March 2017 14:02 (seven years ago) link

two years pass...

I have gotten somewhat more into anime over the past year or two, and really into anime over the past month or two. Here are my thoughts on everything I've watched lately:

Serial Experiments Lain: this was fun and everything I hoped it would be (stylized, super 90s, v cyberpunk, confusing). I felt like it was one of those shows where I could just take it all in and appreciate it aesthetically and not pay SUPER DUPER close attn to what was going on bcz even if you do it's still confusing as hell.

Genocyber: This was bad. I saw this mentioned a lot when I was researching cyberpunk anime, it is hyper violent which also intrigued me but the violence is sparse and really clunky, everything about it is poorly executed (animation, acting, writing, etc), and it quickly offset the novelty of the whole thing. It's a slog to watch and not even worth it for the shock value.

Battle Angel/Battle Angel Alita/Gunnm: This was cute, I liked this a lot. I wish it was longer than 2 episodes and I suppose I could read the manga (or a summary of the manga) but I'm fine just leaving it at this nice little 50-minute adventure. This def scratched my cyberpunk itch more than Genocyber did

Sekko Boys: The premise of this is that this woman is a manager for an idol group but all the members are marble busts, I thought this was the funniest thing ever and I laughed out loud a lot for the first few episodes but then the joke kinda wore off. I expected it to be more of a pointed commentary than it actually is.

OjiSan and Marshmallow: This is a series of 3 minute episodes about this adorable daddybear-looking dude who loves this one brand of marshmallow and this weird coworker who has a crush on him who keeps taunting him w them. It is super adorable but also the woman is like REALLY thirsty for him and it's a little wacky at times, but I'm really enjoying it

Polar Bear Cafe: I just started watching this yesterday and I am hooked so hard, it is about this anthropomorphic polar bear who runs a cafe and his regular customers who come in, set in a world where people and animals coexist w/o question, one of the characters is a panda and gets a job at the local zoo to just be their panda??? it's very humdrum slice of life and it is very soothing and SOOOO charming. I can't believe how in love with this show I am.

Ping Pong: Wow this is gorgeous!! I appreciate the simplicity of it bcz most of the anime I've watched is full of like ACTION or MYSTERY or INTRIGUE and this is just abt some students who play ping pong.

Next on my to-do list, in no real order:
Armitage III
Bubblegum Crisis
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Cowboy Bebop (I've seen the first 1/4 or so but never finished it)
Mononoke (just Mononoke, not Princess Mononoke)

vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 6 July 2019 16:10 (four years ago) link

I think I used to have it in my head that most anime was shounen and that I liked the exceptions to the rule that were not shounen, but I have come to realize that sooooo much anime is not shounen, and I actually like a lot of it??? I don't like meandering 100+ episode-of-the-week type stuff that doesn't really go anywhere, fan service, romance/excessive sentimentality, but I think I am open to most everything else, especially stranger weirder stuff.

vision joanna newsom (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 6 July 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link

doubly sad cos the quality of the animation in anime during the 80s/90s is probably the peak of the medium, just watching random OVAs made during the bubble times can be really eye opening. also I've been watching lots of Cat's Eye and City Hunter recently and I love the aesthetic so much.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 2 August 2023 09:40 (eight months ago) link

i think i'm gonna have to watch city hunter even though the plot doesn't interest me at all because it seems like the absolute _most_ '80s economic bubble anime ever. just, like, the "outrun" of anime.

re: animators all but falling dead at their desks... the main one who comes to mind there is Eiichiro Oda, who does have an insane fucking workload but more because he's an obsessive artist who apparently has devoted his entire life to One Piece. that said yeah animators and mangaka aren't exactly highly valued, any more than anyone who does creative work under capitalism... ah, well, i'm not gonna preach to the choir on _that_ one again

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 2 August 2023 13:35 (eight months ago) link

one month passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2HCVOH6DtA

oh my god i think i found the perfect anime for people who hate anime: yokohama kaidashi kikou

ivy., Wednesday, 6 September 2023 03:10 (seven months ago) link

it’s soooooo good

best slice of life shit ever

the comics are probably even better…

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 05:01 (seven months ago) link

and amazingly after decades of waiting the manga are currently being released in English for the first time, just got the third omnibus the other day!

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 09:32 (seven months ago) link

yeah classic manga. you could also try Aria or Windy Tales if you want more anime like that

ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 12:31 (seven months ago) link

one of the genres of anime i'm binging on is slice of life, for sure. that and sports anime. did i mention watching 13 episodes of "slam dunk" in one go?

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 21:35 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

i've kind of been delving into '80s anime without fight scenes (and i guess "anime without fight scenes" meets the criterion of "anime for people who hate anime" right there), and i find myself wondering about this series called "high school! kimengumi". just because none of it has ever even been fan-translated and it was hugely popular, it had, like, seven different OPs. there weren't many anime that seem to have achieved that level of popularity around then... it seems to have been popular on the level of something like "touch" or "maison ikkoku", both of which are watchable (and beloved) in english. also, all the descriptions of the show i can find talk about it as being about a group of 5 male high school students... but looking at the openings of the manga the focus seems to be totally on the character of yui kawa. i mean maybe it is about these 5 high school boys, but they're not the ones in the opening credits, is all i'm saying. (i mean i haven't seen the full OPs, admittedly, but there are _seven_ OPs...)

Kate (rushomancy), Sunday, 15 October 2023 01:45 (six months ago) link

there does seem to be a fansub of the film from 1986 called "High School! Funny-face Club", and they definitely do have funny faces!

https://i.imgur.com/PPyIYyn.png

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Sunday, 15 October 2023 01:54 (six months ago) link

yeah, i might wanna check out the film

so here's what i'm pissed about right now... i'm _really_ into weird psychedelic animation, and the '73 cutie honey seems like it has tons of that, alongside some peak '70s funk. i would be so into those bits... _except_ that go nagai is a fucking creep and the '73 cutie honey is full of fucking creepy shit.

anyway here's ilx faves perfume covering the cutie honey theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3DheLP03vY

and here's somebody who _isn't_ into go nagai's creepy misogyny shit talking about early magical girls, this is cool. unfortunately they seem to have ended the series but there is some pretty cool stuff here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUt6PperTKI

Kate (rushomancy), Sunday, 15 October 2023 17:44 (six months ago) link

ok so i'm reading this book that's from 2015 called the Anime Encyclopedia and i'm enjoying it immensely. i'm the sort of girl who reads encyclopedias cover-to-cover, though in this case i'm only in the "b"s. what i like about this is that it's by some crusty old british grognards who did anime dubbing and importing back in the '90s, i think

they're not shy at expressing their opinions and my feeling is that if you ask them about MAL they'll respond with something like "Mal? That's french for 'bad', isn't it?"

so it's a lot of fun because they'll complain that saying, say, "mangaka" instead of "manga author" is "obstructively arcane" or how the invention of the term "light novel" was unnecessary and duplicative. i have a certain fondness for linguistic prescriptivism. at the same time i never knew what the origin of "yaoi" and "yuri" actually were, or that in Japan they used to refer to TV as a "Braun tube". I also had never heard of "Chokyo".

Which is another little oddity of their encyclopedia - it covers hentai right alongside kids' anime, so that "Anal Vampire" (described in the text as "a demon who sucks ass rather than blood") is covered shortly before Animal Yokocho, which is, in fact, the anime I want to gush about here.

It's pretty unknown among the MAL crowd, who might not be entirely on board with an anime about a cute five-year-old girl who and her three utterly adorable animal friends who try to help her do things like... bake a cake! And do her homework! This is a show that a five-year-old could watch and enjoy lots. It's also just the most _delightful_ thing.

Ami-chan: "What are you doing?"
Iyo the rabbit: "Researching rabbits."
Ami-chan: "You don't have to research it..."
Iyo: "Ami-chan, the most difficult thing in this world... is to understand yourself."

It reminds me a _lot_ of Animaniacs, honestly.

Earlier this week I wrote (and apparently didn't post) a whole long gush about how episode 77 of "Mahoutsukai Sally" absolutely punched above its level in terms of telling a great story (I guess I didn't mention that here? The upshot is that I found it to be a creative, entertaining, and _coherent_ story, which is something that's _extremely_ rare in '60s and '70s anime. To accomplish like that with no budget and no time, in a 60s cartoon for young girls... that's exceptional. Oh, did I mention that the episode hasn't been subbed or dubbed, and that I don't understand Japanese?)

...anyway, Animal Yokocho maybe punches even more above its respective level. It's these shows that fans ignore, maybe because they don't have gratuitous violence or "fanservice"...

One of the other things I like about the Anime Encyclopedia is that, despite gladly reviewing the entirety of the Pink Pineapple catalog, they don't look any more fondly on "fanservice" than I do. Reading their review on Bakemonogatari they'll tell you "Fan service, questionable behavior verging on molestation, and brief, intensely bloody action scenes are part of the mix." I'd rather hear that than ten thousand reviews gushing about how well the story is contructed.

It's a real problem for me watching anime... MAL tends to not level with one about this sorts of stuff. I tried watching an anime about girls making a videogame! One of the programmers was up so late she slept on the floor! Without pants! And didn't put on pants even when a new employee walked through the door and introduced herself!

It's less that it's creepy - though it is creepy - and more that its devotion to being creepy requires them to make all of the characters behave in nonsensical and uninteresting ways. It's the "uninteresting" part that kills this stuff for me. Issa the panda, Kenta the bear, and Iyo the rabbit all behave in nonsensical ways, but their antics are _entertaining_ to watch. "Fanservice" just _isn't_ entertaining most of the time. (Keijo!!!!!!!! is a notable exception.)

I just know I'm going to spend my twilight years doing a marathon of every episode of Sazae-san, in order.

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 19 October 2023 21:38 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

so it's been a while and i've been continuing my anime deep dive. i guess i am kinda talking to myself here. there are spaces where people talk really in-depth about anime and i'm not wanting to get involved in those spaces right now... internet social spaces are a little iffy for me

anyway i'm starting to learn more about my most niche anime interest, which is '70s anime

this month i got to know the name of osamu dezaki. this guy had a very distinct style, and i like it a lot. when i started watching "ashita no joe" it struck me immediately, how different it was from what the anime i was familiar with looked like. like most anime of the time, "ashita no joe" doesn't have fluid or sophisticated animation. what it does have is shit-tons of style. almost like what gets called a "motion comic" sometimes - taking one pretty detailed drawing and panning across it. often in a triple-take, three times in a row... i've heard that this is a cost-saving technique, but mostly i see it used for dynamic impact... the triple takes are really quick, and don't take up that much screen time.

the show i've been really digging into is "aim for the ace!", which is a really well-loved sports anime - i also learned that hideki anno's early anime "gunbuster", which i haven't seen, was an outer space riff on "aim for the ace". anyway, aim for the ace is just a show i love a lot, visually. the character designs are just really different from what i usually think of as character designs. harsh. angular. even the character who's supposed to be the "pretty" one is about a million miles away from the "moe" stereotype.

honestly i just have a hard time finding moe characters super relatable. i just heard about a "girls love" show called "lesbian bear storm". on paper a show called "lesbian bear storm" is right up my alley. in practice, anime seems to have a real problem with the idea that there's anybody in the world older than 15. also, i think this is ... i mean you see fat-shaming everywhere, but it's particularly prevalent in japan. for me as a lesbian, this is a problem. part of what i struggle with in anime particularly is characters who pander to the male gaze, and when i see character designs like the ones in "lesbian bear storm", that's kind of the feeling i get. to me, part of having good representation is being able to see fat dykes! and not just because that's also my aesthetic preference. :)

when it comes for aim for the ace... it's not a queer show. that said, a lot of the emotional drama of this show is driven by the main character, hiromi, wanting to be _really good friends_ with the star player, madame butterfly. this kind of stuff in the modern day sometimes gets dismissed as "yuri bait", teasing lesbianism for the male gaze.

i do wonder how much of it is inherent to the "shoujo" genre. it wasn't until the '60s that women started becoming the major creators of anime for girls. the manga of "aim for the ace" was one of the first of those works. i didn't grow up with shoujo, but i did grow up with the children's book series "something queer is going on". i grew up in an era where you _couldn't_ be out as queer if you were making creative work for an audience that includes children. there's a pretty negative narrative around queer people who do that. it's still stigmatized, but there seem to be exceptions now at least, with non-binary people like rebecca sugar and n.d. stephenson both creating really great work in that medium.

i don't think it really matters whether someone like elizabeth levy, who wrote the "something queer is going on" books, is herself queer. she created a work that allowed me to understand queerness in women and my relationship to that queerness. as an adult, i get the same kind of feeling from the parts of "aim for the ace". from the beginning there _is_ a guy who hiromi's interested in, todo, but this doesn't diminish my ability to read hiromi as queer. there's an episode where the lead character hiromi's best friend teases her about not paying any attention to todo's tennis playing. she _is_ interested in todo! she's just _more_ interested in madame butterfly. this is kind of why there's such a thing as "late bloomer lesbians" - comphet, compulsory heterosexuality. it's not that she's _not_ interested in guys like todo. he's attractive. someone like madame butterfly, though, is just so much more _exciting_! she just wants to be around madame butterfly all the time and wants madame butterfly to like her the way she likes madame butterfly. as a _really good friend_.

the thing that i love most about dezaki's work here is the way he uses his art to portray hiromi's heightened internal emotional states in a dramatic and compelling way. the sound effects... i'm ok with them. i saw a video from a guy complaining about the way japanese television relies on constant sound effects, which does trace back at least as far as this anime. i don't think the use of sound effects _enhances_ the emotional impact of the show. they're a little more obtrusive than the "stingers" used in the west, but no more heavy handed than, say, murray gold's scores for "doctor who".

i've started to come around to gold's work, incidentally. yes, his work is _extremely_ heavy-handed and didactic, basically yelling very loudly at the viewer about how they are supposed to feel. the upside is that by carrying the didactic load of the show, the rest of it is freed to be nuanced and subtle. plus, his music is better than albert glasser's. worst comes to worst i can do like all the millennials do and just read the subtitles... the stereo sound mixing of everything is dogshit. maybe it sounds better in 5.1. i don't know anybody who watches tv in 5.1.

in "aim for the ace", the plots are melodramatic, the music is melodramatic. dezaki's art, though? the best way i can describe it is "surreal". the mean girls mock her and all of a sudden the art starts looking like the spider-man episode "revolt in the fifth dimension". the colors of the backgrounds, too, are not at all remotely naturalistic. it's actually interesting how many of the color schemes in these '70s anime resemble various queer flags. honestly, i just think it's because the flags in question are color-coordinated. if you're doing a background based around two colors, orange and purple are good colors for that, particularly if the sun is setting. it's not intentionally lesbian. i've just gotten really really used to getting my queer content from subtext.

dezaki also has a tendency to use more dutch angles than _battlefield earth_. he uses them better than that film does. also, it's better than the constant low angles anime today _habitually_ uses when showing female characters from behind. every single shot of female characters in anime feels like it's about a three degree angle away from being a creepshot. well, no, there are also shots which are actual creepshots, or as they say in japan, "fan service". because that's certainly what _i_ want as a fan. not a compelling story or characters or art, no, i only watch anime because i want to see drawings of a 12 year old character flashing her underwear. (because i don't usually use sarcasm, i will be super-obvious and say that the preceding is, in fact, sarcasm.)

it's not that i'm a prude. i find the constant jiggle shots in "keijo!!!!!!!" delightful, though not actually tittilating, because they're genuinely plot-relevant. i feel the same way about magical girl transformation sequences. i mean if somebody really gets their rocks off by looking at animation of a naked girl without nipples superimposed on a sea of stars, i personally don't feel exploited as a woman. i just think those sequences look cool.

lol, i had so much more i wanted to talk about here too, but i've already spent an hour gushing about the two episodes of aim for the ace i've seen, so i guess i'll cut it for now. this boring work meeting is almost over.

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 7 December 2023 22:52 (four months ago) link

by the way one of the video essays i watched was by someone who watched every episode of "lupin iii" and said that was a bad idea. which is enough to convince me to _not_ do a marathon of every episode of sazae-san. i did learn that "angel's egg" was originally supposed to be a lupin iii film. after "castle of cagliostro" miyazaki said "hey you know who you should get to make a lupin film, mamoru oshii". and oshii was like ok so i got an idea, a mad scientist builds a new tower of babel in the middle of tokyo and then jumps off it, in the process he discovers a fossilized angel which lupin then becomes interested, by the end of the movie lupin has stolen reality itself

the people making the film said "my friend we got enough shit for 'mystery of mamo', how about no"

in my headcanon, however, there is a prototype cabinet of "cliff hanger ii" wherein one replays the plot of "angel's egg" by entering perfectly timed button presses

(y'all know the story of "cliff hanger"? the first time any of miyazaki's work was seen in the us, if i have my facts right)

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 7 December 2023 23:00 (four months ago) link

when it comes for aim for the ace... it's not a queer show.

it's just, you know. a sports show. about women who play tennis. like, you know, billie jean king. who is namechecked in the show as one of the inspirations for the players. (in fairness, the other tennis player they namecheck, margaret court, is virulently homophobic. also, i was very relieved when reading about billie jean king that, unlike a lot of other women's tennis players of her generation, she does _not_ seem to have been openly transphobic. in 1977, she played in a women's tournament which included renee richards, a trans woman, as a competitor, and she got a lot of shit from players like chris evert and martina navratilova, who are both transphobic to this day, for it.)

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 7 December 2023 23:14 (four months ago) link

three weeks pass...

frieren is really good

butch wig (diamonddave85), Saturday, 30 December 2023 01:43 (three months ago) link

ok so this is the exact opposite of anime for people who hate anime but god damn i can see "gushing over magical girls" becoming my favorite dark magical girl anime of all time

yall utena is just a REALLY REALLY BIG FAN OF MAGICAL GIRLS!!!!!!!!

Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 4 January 2024 00:06 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

an anime dub but it's just a dub remix of the original episode soundtrack

preferably "cowboy bebop", i wanna hear the mad professor or someone remix yoko kanno and the seatbelts

but i guess like flcl or something would work

Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 20:06 (one week ago) link


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