judging by this thread, being pro-franzen probably is a contrarian position at this point
― Modern French Music from Failure to Boulez (askance johnson), Wednesday, 9 September 2015 17:27 (eight years ago) link
there are abt 8thousand more worthy targets for all the shit he gets but whatever
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 17:33 (eight years ago) link
its essentially become a meme for ppl who mostly have never read anything hes written except perhaps excerpts im guessing
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 17:34 (eight years ago) link
thats true up to a point (certainly the more worthy targets part)
i have read the corrections, i recall thinking it was ok at the time (this was like 2009 iirc, i was still in college), i tried freedom and was like "nahdawg" within a chapter or so, then i started noticing the things he was saying out loud
― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 17:49 (eight years ago) link
"Often it seems to become completely still in the predator’s jaws, as if it feels no pain. As if nature, at the very end, shows mercy for it.”
Franzen seems utterly captivated by his own ignorant musings. Predators are attracted by motion and many prey animals remain motionless when afraid. What he is describing is commonly called "petrified by fear".
― Aimless, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 17:57 (eight years ago) link
halfway through this, feel compelled to read one of his novels so i can credibly criticize him. the scene where pip throws herself to her knees before Stephen and takes her sweater and bra off and practically begs him to fuck her was so appalling & hilarious. just got to the section with the evil feminist caricature. can't wait to be done
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 18:43 (eight years ago) link
I really don't get the vitriol
― calstars, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 19:10 (eight years ago) link
xp you're allowed to stop reading
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 19:11 (eight years ago) link
I have not read the book but to me it sounds like Calvinism or Buddhism, to give it an -ism.
― youn, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 23:18 (eight years ago) link
this is fairly accurate for me, i have to admit. i haven't read any of his books, but i have read several non-fiction pieces by him, and they were witless and dour and unfunny, which is what put me off
― as verbose and purple as a Peter Ustinov made of plums (James Morrison), Thursday, 10 September 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link
and in interviews he seems to be a dickhead too
― johnny crunch,
Name them.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 September 2015 01:02 (eight years ago) link
I can mutter a mild "yes" when acknowledging that social media can turn against someone too quickly these days, but for a best seller whose novels get automatic Important Novel status he deserves backlash for the facile shit he got away with too easily. Also, I can say, "Franzen is essentially a favorite of people who mostly never read any contemporary fiction."
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 September 2015 01:04 (eight years ago) link
yea i mean hes not a fav of mine, some backlash is fine, hes clumsy abt plenty of things, but hes a p good fiction writer and ill continue to read him
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 10 September 2015 01:07 (eight years ago) link
name who? i just mean the vitrolic vibe. its v much piling on
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 10 September 2015 01:09 (eight years ago) link
i think ive said before that his non-fic is terrible imo, & i have ignored it since that how to be alone compilation
what james said. about essays and interviews and dickheadism. and the bits of the novels i have read are always terrible and accidently hilarious. so, the accidental hilarity is a good thing, i guess!
― scott seward, Thursday, 10 September 2015 01:54 (eight years ago) link
he definitely brings the vitriol out in me. kinda like phish.
― scott seward, Thursday, 10 September 2015 01:56 (eight years ago) link
Also, I can say, "Franzen is essentially a favorite of people who mostly never read any contemporary fiction."
https://twitter.com/kathrynschulz/status/631557508650242048
― a (waterface), Thursday, 10 September 2015 13:17 (eight years ago) link
agreed that he is a dickhead but disagree that he's a favorite of people who never read contemporary fiction
― a (waterface), Thursday, 10 September 2015 13:18 (eight years ago) link
I don't believe that point either: I was expressing the stereotypical view of Franzen. From working at an indie bookstore at the height of The Corrections mania, I know that everyone bought it, including Iggy Pop.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 September 2015 13:34 (eight years ago) link
he's the moby dick of american lit.
― scott seward, Thursday, 10 September 2015 14:54 (eight years ago) link
so who read Purity and can report?
― nostormo, Thursday, 10 September 2015 18:40 (eight years ago) link
i've never read anything by him but i find the aggressively negative reactions on twitter pretty annoying
― flopson, Thursday, 10 September 2015 20:11 (eight years ago) link
my mom loved The Corrections, reads contemp lit but prob not the hip stuff that person on twitter has in mind when they say contemp lit
― flopson, Thursday, 10 September 2015 20:16 (eight years ago) link
Also, I can say, "Radiohead is essentially a favorite of people who mostly never listen to any contemporary music."
― flopson, Thursday, 10 September 2015 20:18 (eight years ago) link
i felt like the shittiest shit of a son years ago when i scoffed at my mom for reading and liking the bridges of madison county. it was like kicking a puppy. sorry, mom! i never ever made fun of anything that anyone ever read again. at the most i will just say: yeaaaaaaaah, i don't really think that's my kind of thing...
― scott seward, Thursday, 10 September 2015 20:59 (eight years ago) link
“Even at the height of her preoccupation with Stephen, she hadn’t wanted to be his object; hadn’t fantasized about submitting and obeying. But these were the terms of the susceptibility that Andreas, his fame and confidence, had revealed in her.”
― calstars, Sunday, 13 September 2015 23:00 (eight years ago) link
Pull out his eyesApologize
― The Starry-Eyed Messenger Service (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 13 September 2015 23:03 (eight years ago) link
Sorry, wrong Stephen
i thought it was... idk, enjoyable, probably? 'freedom' felt actively awful, like the parts that were stupid or upsetting or ugly were there on purpose, so franzen cld shove yr face in what celebrated author jonny franzen knows about life. it was confrontational in its badness. 'purity' was mostly fun if sort of bad as like, a book with ideas in it. its strange to read the grantland piece because i think hes become a complete failure as a writer of characters, no one in 'purity' thinks or acts or seems like a person that would exist irl. theyre totems of various 21st century ills and manners, franzen seems of late to have lost interest in people and gained a tremendous passion for Issues, and most of his characters now seem to be vehicles for working through or commenting on the issues that matter. all these needlessly beautiful young women who represent something but mean nothing.
but i also think hes bad at the details of character. pips massive student loans are the genesis for much of the plot but they make no sense to me. the number (so often repeated) of $130K was just so incongruous to me that i spent twenty minutes googling tuition, financial aid, and loan relief info for uc berkeley (average student debt load on graduation $16K). even assuming that pip received zero financial aid the $130K number is about 30K too high but given what we know about pip, about her mothers income, it makes no sense that she wouldnt have applied for financial aid. that she wouldve rejected work/study positions and summer jobs or failed to apply for any busaries or done anything to mitigate the cost of college. especially because her college debt is what drives her to search for her father! as with so much else it feels like franzen learns about the world by half-reading articles in the times, there are so many characters that feel like the vague acquaintances in trend pieces about daycares for child pyschics
all this aside it was pretty fun, the plot was exciting and interesting, i wanted to find out what was happening and why.
― dead (Lamp), Sunday, 13 September 2015 23:32 (eight years ago) link
im halfway thru, plot was losing me but then did just get good i think
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 13 September 2015 23:50 (eight years ago) link
I'm sure he is not as bad as those of us who haven't really read him assume he is, but his varied and sundry statements about how he is going to turn the ship of literature around and point it in the right direction are irritating, the number of red flags raised and buttons that are pushed approach Pomplamoose levels.
― The Starry-Eyed Messenger Service (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 14 September 2015 00:01 (eight years ago) link
this is a good piece about hating writers you've never actually read:
http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2015/08/31/on-the-pleasures-of-not-reading/
― scott seward, Monday, 14 September 2015 00:56 (eight years ago) link
^ A nice jeu d'esprit. I liked it until the final paragraph, where the author strove to end with a flourish and instead it's just rather awkward.
― Aimless, Monday, 14 September 2015 01:30 (eight years ago) link
― dead (Lamp), Sunday, September 13, 2015 7:32 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i feel the same way. very entertaining read, but i didn't get anything out of it other than a good story. is it asking too much to want more from THE BEST AMERICAN NOVELISTTTTT? noand good god he can't write about sex at all. "There's no other way to put it - she played with the dick."
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 20:28 (eight years ago) link
hating essays about hating writers you've never actually read that you've never actually read
― lil urbane (Jordan), Tuesday, 15 September 2015 20:53 (eight years ago) link
had to google that quote, hilarious stuff
http://i.imgur.com/0nTBGsl.png
can't remember anything from freedom apart from enjoying it, corrections was good imo
― niels, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 10:01 (eight years ago) link
taking sex scene lessons from john updick. i mean updike.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 14:07 (eight years ago) link
writing about sex is like dancing about Frank Zappa
― Aimless, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 18:03 (eight years ago) link
Who is narrating that passage?
― Treeship, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 22:26 (eight years ago) link
Not "Leonard," right?
― Treeship, Wednesday, 16 September 2015 22:27 (eight years ago) link
leonard is obv the dick
― playlists of pensive swift (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 16 September 2015 22:55 (eight years ago) link
Tom Aberrant, pip's dad
― flappy bird, Thursday, 17 September 2015 17:24 (eight years ago) link
i was a big fan of Great Expectations by Kathy Acker.
― scott seward, Thursday, 17 September 2015 17:27 (eight years ago) link
and i think that book also said a lot of things about...modern things. and Prince.
hated the Prince talk in Motherless Brooklyn. what's with these guys? why does my tone meter go all kerflooey with these guys?
― scott seward, Thursday, 17 September 2015 17:28 (eight years ago) link
why does my tone meter go all kerflooey with these guys?
right??
― 0 / 0 (lukas), Thursday, 17 September 2015 21:17 (eight years ago) link
"A few days later, I stole more magazines. I liked Oui because the girls in it seemed realer—also more European, hence more cultured, intelligent, and soulful—than the ones in Playboy . I imagined deep conversations with them, I imagined them attracted to how compassionately I listened to them, but there was no denying that my interest in them died at the instant of orgasm."
― calstars, Sunday, 20 September 2015 12:14 (eight years ago) link
"she kept alienating people with her moral absolutism and her sense of superiority, which is so often the secret heart of shyness."
― calstars, Sunday, 20 September 2015 12:22 (eight years ago) link