Prog V3.0 Discussion Thread

Measure is their masterpiece IMO

and screw Wilson, what we really need to sort out is Bill Drake vs Bob Drake

I stopped caring for anything labeled prog when the majority became symphonic black metal. So if there is actually any good modern prog bands, I wouldn't know about it. Maybe there is something to 'prog' getting fucked over by having all the metal thrown in... but it's easy to ignore it because the metal is usually labeled something like 'prog-metal'. Actual prog music stopped being made imo (just like the Cantebury scene) and anything labeled plain old prog nowadays is an exclusively different genre than prog 1.0 (except for solo acts from old guys that were part of the original movement)

I'd like to expound upon something I've noticed in a lot of prog which frankly puts me off

The other night I went to a gig, involving Thumpermonkey (who are FUCKING AMAZING and whose new stuff sounds genuinely wondrous - I will link some of their stuff here, probably) and two other nu-hard-prog bands. And as good as Thumpermonkey were, the other two did not cut it in the songwriting or the interplay departments. They made a lot of noise - one with a saxophone, which was nice - but it didn't amount to much.

Worse, though, was their attitude and their approach to lyrics. Both had songs about oral sex. One in particular was just cock-rock gone modular. Lumpen AND pretentious, if you'll allow. The band was fucking leaking testosterone everywhere, exuding contempt for women and worship of their own penises as they prattled their nonsense.

Now, while the band with the saxophone had genuine promise (and their oral sex song was weird and dentistry-related enough to be excused), not to mention humility, the other band really made me reflect upon the lineage of ultra-masculine prog and its idiotic, lascivious approach to sex. From ELP to Gentle Giant and then later to the guitar-pranging morons of today, you have these contemptuous lionised fuckwits inflicting their sexual supremacy onto the audience, whether on their album covers or in their lyrics. It's fucking tiresome!

What I'm saying is NOT that I want all prog to be super-sensitive Steven Wilson 'oh I'm such a nice guy' nice-guy-ness. I like music and lyrics with a bit of edge. But I fucking hate the maleness of quite a lot of prog. Does anybody else find themselves having a problem with this?

Oh, and the cock-prog band were from Manchester, obviously.

listening to the Steven Wilson record now. I've only really heard the first song, listening to the second. Pretty clearly indebted to 70s classic prog, particular Yes, which the bass, drums and lead guitar tone seem to use as the primary (only?) sound template. The vocals I'm not sold on, but the backing vocals (also very Yes-like) aren't actually far from how Bob Drake's sound. The energy is good, and the playing is good (I think this is Marco Minneman on drums, and he's an interesting player).

Compositionally, I would say this is a lot more straightforward than someone like Bob Drake. It's got a big, symphonic form, though is actually a little simpler in construction that something like Close to the Edge or Awaken by Yes. In truth, this strikes me as a good example of the kind of prog I was writing about above, regarding music that sounds like its influences to the extent it would most appeal to listeners looking for, say, a long lost Yes track. Admittedly, not my thing really (at least in the prog realm). Anagram, I'm actually surprised you don't like Bob Drake, because he definitely has his Yes moments (particularly vocally). But, writing-wise, they are not very similar I guess.

xposts: It's not something I've noticed (though I don't listen to much current prog) but that confirms my view that prog bands should only write vague pseudo-mystical gubbins that I don't have to pay attention to.

Slightly embarrassingly I've only heard one Bob Drake song *ever*. And it was on a CD that doubled as a game of musical Consequences. Dominique himself gets the second slot after Bob! Oh it's good fun

(Dominique, ending your track with precisely 20 seconds of beeeeep was brilliantly evil, you evil man!)

never heard bob or bill but something i appreciate about steven wilson is he can cut it in the songwriting department. his first two solo albums aren't just revival exercises; they're dynamic anthemic rock albums packed with killer hooks even on songs that run past 10 minutes. 'the raven that refused to sing' is a neo-prog clinic, i think, an homage to the artists that pioneered the whole vibe, every bit as compelling as the DECEMBERISTS' 'crane wife'. new one is still sinking in. it's the most self-consciously experimental/'sui generis' of his four solo albums. i dunno. PORCUPINE TREE never really did it for me but to use a stupid analogy, wilson on his own is a 'standing on the shoulders of giants' proposition, and reminds me of the CLIENTELE 'refining' FELT and the SMITHS, or PAVEMENT 'refining' the FALL and SWELL MAPS. good tones are good tones; why not make use?

Worse, though, was their attitude and their approach to lyrics. Both had songs about oral sex. One in particular was just cock-rock gone modular. Lumpen AND pretentious, if you'll allow. The band was fucking leaking testosterone everywhere, exuding contempt for women and worship of their own penises as they prattled their nonsense.

Now, while the band with the saxophone had genuine promise (and their oral sex song was weird and dentistry-related enough to be excused), not to mention humility, the other band really made me reflect upon the lineage of ultra-masculine prog and its idiotic, lascivious approach to sex. From ELP to Gentle Giant and then later to the guitar-pranging morons of today, you have these contemptuous lionised fuckwits inflicting their sexual supremacy onto the audience, whether on their album covers or in their lyrics. It's fucking tiresome!

This really shocked me (not in an "oh, my stars!" way, but in a "wtf, didn't see that coming" way) when I accidentally paid attention to King Crimson's lyrics, particularly the '72-74 lineup. It's not that I'm offended by it, it's more like...haven't you got something better to talk about? You spent all that time working out the key changes and time signatures, you couldn't do a second pass at the words?

I also dislike swaggering macho boner music but ELP's "Brain Salad Surgery" is one of the only examples in prog I can think of. I've never heard that infamous King Crimson song.

well I love Bob's music obviously. Here's a track that I think puts his Yes influence on its sleeve, but somehow also doesn't sound like any Yes song I know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojPOPDnz47w

I've honestly never noticed much 70s prog in Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree (heard In Absentia, Fear Of A Blank Planet, The Incident, Insurgents). I definitely see the Radiohead influence though.

that bob drake song slays

i would recommend to people never listening to the FACES if groupie jokes rub you the wrong way

don't feel like crimson ever recovered after pete sinfield split until belew started writing lyrics

robert, 'the raven that refused to sing' sounds like a synthesis of the best strawbs, yes, gentle giant, and crimson to me way more than radiohead

Whoa, that's exceptional. It seems that really short songs is his thing. I'll definitely have to hear more.

(Does he do the whole xenharmonic thing? Certainly sounds like it!)

yeah I hear all of the best bits of Crimson, VdGG and Genesis in The Raven. The Radiohead influence is more pronounced in Insurgentes and Grace for Drowning I would say.

xp

DEERHOOF is prog 2.5?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayZEA1QMnKc

I'll listen to that Steven Wilson album and tell you whether it's got all the best bits of VdGG in it, yeah

I quite like Deerhoof. Never heard that song though, is that a new album?

Does he do the whole xenharmonic thing? Certainly sounds like it!

I don't think so, he basically just does stuff that sounds good to him -- almost stubbornly non-educated about music theory, etc. He's an incredible musician tho, esp on guitar, but is a great bassist and drummer too. Also, like Steven Wilson, has huge background in recording and engineering -- very simple analog setup (tho started using pro-tools fairly recently), but he can basically put to record any sound that's in his head.

imago, are nu-hard-prog bands the same as progressive metal? I didn't care for that one Dream Theater album I bought and I don't like any metal

@corbynjokes ‏

Yo mama so dumb she thinks Quantitative Easing is a Yes album

This really shocked me (not in an "oh, my stars!" way, but in a "wtf, didn't see that coming" way) when I accidentally paid attention to King Crimson's lyrics, particularly the '72-74 lineup. It's not that I'm offended by it, it's more like...haven't you got something better to talk about? You spent all that time working out the key changes and time signatures, you couldn't do a second pass at the words?

― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 9 September 2015 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Give 'em a break - after all those time signatures they just want to relax with their groupies!

I always felt the lyrics were playing second fiddle in King Crimson and no one except the singer gave a fuck about them. I could be wrong but just the fact that some really lame lines were still being produced in 4th gen King Crimson really makes me think no one wanted to make a big deal in order to get them changed. So either apathy or passive-aggressiveness could be to blame.

Or maybe like you, 誤訳侮辱, the other band members just didn't pay attention LOL

palmer-james has pretty bad lyrics, but to be wholly fair sinfield had enough groupie songs in his work ("cadence and cascade" as well as "ladies of the road").

I mentioned this track previously on the Time Travel thread,

my favourite prog track of the year:

Lethe - Forever
https://open.spotify.com/track/2CAWfdQylMK0Y4ew4Q6wuw

https://dmp666.bandcamp.com/album/forever

"Forever" is not a exactly what we could call a first glimpse of the eagerly awaited second LETHE album. This astoundingly good song is just a little pleasure, generously offered by the magical duo formed by Anna Murphy (ELUVEITIE) and Tor-Helge Skei (MANES, MANII). A short moment of pure genius containing all the precious elements which have forged this unique and exceptional self-identified style and very specific self-created approach, dedicated to anyone who enjoys fresh music and experimental Artists.

Listening to the Steven Wilson album. It does not contain 'all the best bits of Crimson, VdGG and Yes'. That is a lie.

It does not contain 'all the best bits of Crimson, VdGG and Genesis' either. (Whoops!) Although it comes a little closer to Genesis than the other two, sure. Still a lie.

imago, are nu-hard-prog bands the same as progressive metal? I didn't care for that one Dream Theater album I bought and I don't like any metal

― The Once-ler, Wednesday, September 9, 2015 6:28 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a massive shame because the best prog album I've heard this year is the new Dodheimsgard, which is basically an electrosymphonic neoclassical recording masquerading as a black metal album. it's extraordinary. here it is in case you renounce your ways:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCFEETZX3SY

As for nu-hard-prog, well, you MIGHT like Thumpermonkey! But are they metal? Who cares!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCT7kioyXSU

strawbs, yes, gentle giant, and crimson in 'the raven'?

djmartian how crucial that piano riff is to "forever" makes me think you might dig "empire of the clouds" on the new IRON MAIDEN album (which i feel like voluntary street team for at this point, it rules that much -- up the irons!!!). lady/dude duet reminds me a little of AINUR, one of the hardest of hardcore current italian prog rock bands. all of their songs are based on 'the silmarillion'! not even zeppelin went there

that song 'forever' is approximately as boring as this steven wilson album

everyone listen to the things i posted

regarding Iron Maiden - it's not something i would normally check but i have added that track to my private to listen list on spotify.

Ainur - i looked them on rateyourmusic.com - not previously listened to them

the closest in spirit to Lethe that i have come across in 2015, is this album: (that i recommended on the rolling metal 2015 thread earlier this year)

Amiensus - Ascension
http://amiensus.bandcamp.com/album/ascension

re: steven wilson,

his best stuff is always, always the poppier material, the stuff that embraces its own softness as a primary component

― Ƹ༑Ʒ (imago), Monday, October 6, 2014 2:22 PM (11 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a whole album of ambient pop a la Glass Arm Shattering wd be good

― Ƹ༑Ʒ (imago), Monday, October 6, 2014 2:23 PM (11 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Agreed - his longform stuff is sometimes alright but his real "spaced out" compositions sound like a dude who listened to a lot of Floyd at The Orb and just wanted to connect the dots. When I first heard "Lightbulb Sun" (the song, not the album) I was floored by it because I didn't know he could write songs like that so well.

Thus far not much mention of two of my favorite working prog groups, Echolyn and Motorpsycho, both of which have been around for over two decades at this point but still are producing some real top-quality work. Echolyn may be one of my favorite prog groups of any era, just astounding how well these guys write and play together. Nothing particularly wild or innovative about 'em but they make really great albums that hold up over many many listens. Definitely influenced by classic prog but they sound modern; some songs even have a bit of twang or some funk to 'em that you don't associate with prog rock. Some songs I've particularly been into:

The End is Beautiful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gnnFfpLh8E

Human Lottery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgUsnR9_1ro

MOTORPSYCHO albums poll

Recently saw one of the new Battles music videos. Really loved it.

valuable classic discussion

Prog-Core Is Sweeping The Nation!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=4&v=bMgFI84X5PA

^^^yes

came up in the time travel thread to hearty acclaim

extremely great

that's perhaps an exaggeration

i'm listening to the full album now and it's a little bit dull in spots, but the highs (opening track + that one, chiefly) are very high

hells yeah

the opening track is my favourite i think ('babel') - check it out ppl

http://thequietus.com/articles/18778-john-stanier-battles-favourite-albums-interview?page=12

weather report and rush. maybe that's why i don't like battles!

I took you for a Rush fan because of your name.

nah, my username is a joke that ceased to be funny probably a decade ago, if it was ever funny at all. i don't hate rush anymore, but i also don't really ever listen to them.

The most 'prog' new bands I'm into right now are Mammatus and Perhaps. Mammatus is more spacerock than anything but the music is intricate enough that I think it passes muster. After the discussion, I'm a bit worried they might be too cheesy for this thread but imo they are a total blast:

https://youtu.be/M4ksZet5P0k

(Dont know why the Youtube volume level is so low though)

MAMMATUS kills it. EARTHLESS and ASTRA are up their space alley if you haven't checked them out

V2.65?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp2mem73WKY