pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Ok:

the roots - seed 2.0 which covers cody chesnutt

And Mos def has a live band nowadays and they cover hendrix i think.

seed 2.0 is a word for word cover?

Not sure why "Walk This Way" needs to have a modern rock hit covered word for word by rap star (and word for word only, no samples, no remixes, etc) to be influential. It seems like a needlessly specific criteria.

well that's a matter of perspective - it's treated as "highly influential" but actually the "influence" isn't so much the song but the music video - way more people have done "YOU? ME? TOGETHER? WOW!" than actually ape the track

and wtf a breakthrough in mtv gimmickry has to do with Best Songs Of the 80s i dunno

Yes it is, all the cody chesnutt chorus are reprised from his other one minute song. At least that's what I remember.

At any rate you're missing the point it wasn't influential because it prompted hiphop artists to do rock covers but because it made them aware of the versatility of hip hop and how it could reach to out to other genres outside the then-limited hip hop culture.

wtf gimmickry is probably bigger than ever.

moka if we were taking "chorus is interpolated from original song" to mean "word-for-word cover of that song" we'd have a lot more examples

Have you even heard the cody chesnutt song? The same three chorus on the Roots song is all there is. Word for word.

And yet again: "walk this way" influence wasn't that it prompted hiphop artists to do rock covers I don't understand where you're getting that from.

if you're trying to argue that "walk this way" was A Big Deal, sure fine great, no debate, I said it probably belongs in a Best Videos Of The 80s list just for Tyler busting through the wall and Run-DMC not having it. I'm just pointing out that the cultural influence really outshines its musical influence (there are plenty of other 80s def jam songs that have been more blatantly jacked aesthetically) and that this is a list of Best Songs not Most Important Moments Of The 80s

opening lyrics to "the seed" by cody chestnutt

I don't ask, for much these days
And I don't sit, and whine, if I don't get my way
I only wanna fertilize another behind my lover's back
I sit and watch it grow standin' where I'm at
Fertilize another behind my lover's back
And I'm keepin' my secrets mine
I push my seed in her bush for life
Its gonna work because I'm pushin' it right
If Mary drops my baby girl tonight
I would name her Rock-N-Roll

opening lyrics to "the seed 2.0" by the roots:

Knocked up 9 months ago
And what she finna have? She don't know
She want neo-soul, this hip-hop is old
She don't want no Rock n' Roll
She want platinum or ice or gold
She want a whole lot of something to fold
If you a obstacle she just drop you cold
Cause one monkey don't stop the show
Little Mary is bad
In these streets she done ran
Ever since when the heat began
I told the girl: "look here
Calm down, I'mma hold your hand
To enable you to peep the plan
Cause you is quick to learn
And we can make money to burn
If you allow me to lay this game"
I don't ask for much but enough room to spread my wings
And the world finna know my name

The influence of walk this way was that it set a pop precedent to incorporate elements from rock or to do crossovers to other genres and every "pop song feat. Hiphop act" owes a little to run dmc even if they're not aware of it. Of course, if they didn't do it first someone else might have done it eventually is true but that can be said about everything under the sun.

It wasnt even the first time rap + [insert other genre] was used as a formula for a hit tho.

Such as....?

It was the first big hit that did it, though, and that's what matters when talking about influence. You think all the acts of the 80s that followed suit were thinking about the underground song that made it first or the big hit that they heard last summer?

Rockit, Planet Rock...

it's true, the fat boys were probably thinking about "walk this way" when they did "the twist" and "wipeout". i don't think anyone would deny that.

I guess if you want to say Kraftwerk is a rock band, and in the same genre as Aerosmith, you would technically be right. Technically.

Like how many pop songs nowadays have a rap guest verse? Pretty much all of those are indebted to "Walk This Way".

This is an argument for "I Feel For You", not "Walk This Way".

seriously! this song means zip when it comes to "hey let's have somebody rap after the second chorus"

Ok whatever you stubborn son of a blunt you're right Walk this Way was in no way influential to anything. You win.

if you're trying to argue that "walk this way" was A Big Deal, sure fine great, no debate, I said it probably belongs in a Best Videos Of The 80s list just for Tyler busting through the wall and Run-DMC not having it. I'm just pointing out that the cultural influence really outshines its musical influence (there are plenty of other 80s def jam songs that have been more blatantly jacked aesthetically) and that this is a list of Best Songs not Most Important Moments Of The 80s

don't be a baby

Whatever kraftwerk were, they were not a rap act. Neither was herbie hancock. Or chic for that matter.

But all those counter examples are dance music meeting dance music. The genres already kind of shared common reference points, sounds, beats, etc. As far as predicting weird mashup culture and genre hybrids "Walk This Way" is a more extreme example.

Hip hop was founded on sampling. They were snatching from disco and funk way before 'walk this way' but were the other genres using hip hop raps as guest verses before?

THEY DIDNT DO THAT ON WALK THIS WAY

If anything, Walk This Way was a little late to the game when rap and rock were being mixed. Run-DMC themselves had already done King of Rock and the Beasties beat it by a year with She's On It. It probably could've been any artist and any song, but Rubin wanted to do Walk This Way. That's why I'm saying there was far more benefit in it for Aerosmith than for Run-DMC.

I mean, the point wasn't that hiphop borrowed from other genres, it was based around it! The point is that due to that song everyone noticed hip hop's crossover potential and started mixing it outside its comfort zone and subculture.

Walk This Way is a straight cover of "Walk This Way" with NO RAPS that weren't on the original track. they'd done it live before and rick rubin was like "hey what if we got steven tyler and joe perry to do it along with you". Which led to a video where rock and rap met on stage and everyone went COOL. and yes, that was influential. nobody would deny that.

But it has no bearing on "hey put a guest rap verse on the track instead of a solo" it ARGUABLY has some bearing on "hey have the original artist redo their chorus" though its pretty atypical and uninfluential in terms of having no original verses around it.

Everyone pretty otm. I don't think I've ever considered "Walk This Way" more than I have this morning, and I'm realizing I don't really like it that much anyways. Still think it's influential even if it's a bit of a sellout or cash in (perhaps influential BECAUSE of this).

Run-DMC themselves had already done King of Rock and the Beasties beat it by a year with She's On It.

^^^

these just weren't huge hits, and they didn't involve reviving an ailing rock band's career

croup otherwise otm

why is someone else's statement used against my otm-ness, that's bullshit

the guest raps really added something to "Walk This Way," kind of makes you wonder why Aerosmith didn't do that sort of thing in the original

In 1975, they could've gotten Gil Scott Heron on that shit.

lol sorry croup didn't mean to imply that those points ran counter to each other

I just noticed you're posting as Shakey Mo. Goin' RETRO!

if I HAD to make a case for "walk this way"'s musical influence (as opposed to marketing), i'd say it's probably an early popular example of hip-hop just straight up USING a familiar chorus as the chorus, with a minimum of trickery. and the lack of other chestnuts with rapped verses and sung choruses meant acts like the fat boys had to take the "twist" and turn it INTO a "walk this way." though ironically that influence - "why hint at a popular tune by taking a stray lick or breakbeat when you can just let the audience shout along with something obvious" - would arguably be the kind that would exclude it from a critical best-of for a decade.

it was vv influential on the hit collaboration between public enemy and stephen stills when they redid f"or what it's worth"

steven tyler was already kind of rapper anyway, easily the most rhythmic and raplike rock vocalist in terms of how he used words and phrasing

run-dmc tellingly didn't really alter his cadences or phrasing of the vocals at all, just rapped them instead of sung them

What I was really trying to expose:

Aerosmith > GnR
Run DMC & Aerosmith >>>>>>> GnR

What a terrible way to make that argument

Also the real top three of this poll should have been:

1. The Message
2. Billie Jean
3. Running up that hill

The comment made on that article upthread that the top 10 makes more sense if you switch it with 11-20 is otm too, at least it looks like a better top 3:

1. When Doves Cry
2. Just Like Heaven
3. Billie Jean

What a terrible way to make that argument

― da croupier

I was joking, I honestly think it was an influential single for that decade and the following but I don't want to go down that road again.

Why should you when no one disagrees

We just disagree on whether its one of the best of the decade and whether it has guest rap verses on it

i like guns n roses, good band! the vikings always play the intro to "welcome to the jungle" when they kickoff, love it

We just disagree on whether its one of the best of the decade and whether it has guest rap verses on it

― da croupier

In the context of the p4k list as the measurement of 'best of the decade' I would trade it for any of the two GnR singles any day of the week. If I did my own list of favorite 200 songs of the decade I don't think it would place.

Also the verses on it are unequivocally rap verses, it doesn't matter if they were penned by a rock vocalist before. If the only version of the song that existed was the Run DMC cover and they had penned the lyrics of the verses would it then become a rap verse?