Depression and what it's really like

in my 20s I would basically fire up Giorgio Moroder's "Scarface" theme on permanent repeat and play GTA: Vice City and just blow up everybody and everything with cheat codes for a half hour, was surprisingly therapeutic.

This sounds great. I am very very angry all the time and having the ability to destroy things without actually destroying things would be good. I don't like action movies, though.

professional sport and video games are all that keeps me going most weeks tbh

Video games.

YMMV but I watch a lot of episodes of a TV show I find soothing in either content (Star Trek Voyager works well for me here) or format (Law and Order) or read genre fiction, either Star Trek books, Discworld books, or like the silliest Victorian werewolf and vampire romance type stuff I can find. The less like real life and the goofier the better. Also any sci-fi/spec fic type of TV show that has a rabid tumblr fanbase is usually escapist enough to get me going. Sherlock worked really well for the first three seasons. Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell is pretty much getting me through my late summer blues this year.

I don't like sports and I'm crap at most video games. I tried playing Final Fantasy something or other a few summers ago and that worked pretty well until it actually got hard (for me) and then I just got frustrated and felt irrationally betrayed that my escape of choice turned on me like that.

I find Star Trek particularly therapeutic because of the built-in optimism, although I avoid TOS because it's sexist and makes me feel like shit and DS9 because it's too gritty and realistic (although fantastic). But TNG and Voyager are fabulous, as are the movies, at least up through First Contact.

but don't you find Sisko's fretting about the FATE of the ALPHA QUANDRANT resting in OUR HANDS soothing

Depends on how much my current state of mind is due to my (irrational) fretting about the FATE of EARTH resting in MY HANDS. I do find Avery Brooks' voice to be incredibly soothing, though. I wonder if he's narrated any audiobooks...

Had my first session with the shrink yesterday. We will see how this goes. He already told me that it seems like I use my fatalastic/nihilistic view of life/death/the universe to protect myself from finding out why I can't experience happiness or discover meaning in things. Uplifting!

I don't know if it helps, but the trick for me has been to realize that a nihilistic worldview and happiness/meaning are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It's possible to both believe that nothing in the universe has any inherent meaning or purpose or value and also to consciously instill your own sense of value on people/relationships/places/things/interactions/states of being and find happiness from the presence of those valued things in your life. Also, cling tenaciously to your recursive layers of desire to be well. When I wasn't well, and in that moment didn't particularly care about being well, I knew that there was some part of me that wanted to want to be well because it was a preoccupation on some level. Seeking help is a good sign. Want to want to be well until you want to be well until you're well.

When you hate yourself, you're kind of amazed that others might care for you, and you and up punishing them for this flaw in their judgments. A very pernicious cycle.

sounds about right

http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/09/ask-polly-how-do-i-help-my-selfish-friend.html

writer asks for help dealing w/ depressed friend who can't be helped

columnist focuses on the innate core character 'some people' supposedly have

I'm a big fan of long-term friend loyalty. And I'm a big believer in talking things out. I've always had faith that you can sit down with an old friend, air your grievances, and come away feeling more committed to the friendship. In general, I think friends give up on each other too easily, before they have a chance to listen and be understood.

But at some point I think we're all forced to accept that some people are just too selfish to tolerate. It's not just that they never give back the same attention and understanding that you give them. It's not just that they blame you every single time you step a millimeter outside of the highly subjective boundaries of what they personally consider acceptable behavior. It's not just that, when you do push them to listen or support you a little, they almost immediately shift the focus back to their own problems. It's not even that they become defensive when you dare to suggest a new path or new perspective, or that they take every suggestion as such a personal insult that they feel the need to lash out with personal insults of their own in response. All of these things are irritating, mind you. But the worst part is their total lack of gratitude.

never comes back to depression, never considers the possibility that depression in particular saps your feelings of gratitude and damages the possibility of feeling any at all

i dunno. i don't really consider lashing out/throwing tantrums/being self-centered at happy hour symptoms of depression so much as symptoms of being an asshole. and even if depression *is* the cause, it doesn't make too much difference to the friend who's being treated like shit

it's easier to blame someone for being selfish than to be empathetic about their depression, especially when you can just gloss over the particulars of said 'friend's' situation

also assholes are perfectly fine IMO so long as there's a way for you to tell them very directly that you think they're being an asshole

The letter writer expressly says her friend has become "depressed over the past year", then goes on to describe her behavior. After reading how her friend is acting, I'd say the letter writer was using "depressed" very loosely to mean her friend is deeply unhappy. From what I read her unhappiness doesn't look like real depression at all, but rather like someone who is full of barely suppressed anger.

hard to say from the details we're given. not liking this columnist, but I admit this part rings true:

When you grow up in the company of someone with a severe personality disorder and you love that person in spite of everything, you feel haunted by a need to protect that person from reality. This is the very definition of unhealthy, but it's such a powerful force in so many of our lives.

Well, I think my plan to alienate my friends is working.

Perception undoubtedly clouded but I'm positive I'm not pleasant to be around right now.

you could tell your friends that you know you are unpleasant to be around right now, and you wish you could do something about it, but it's an uphill battle and could they be patient with you.

i feel like i make that excuse far too often

just remember that what you are doing is offering an explanation and asking for understanding. the actual excusing is done by your friends, not you. and if they are willing to excuse you and be patient it is because they care about you as a person. there's nothing bad or wrong about that.

of course

but there's also the dim awareness that these people are exhausted with you; they've mentally already placed you under the file labeled "problems" and have proceeded to distance themselves

this realization is painful not so much for the loss of a friend, but the understanding that the supposed "bond" was always tenuous. the sense that one is replaceable or superfluous.

that may be true, but bonds of friendship are still willfully made, i say optimistically

the supposed "bond" was always tenuous

more like the bond slowly weakens unless it is renewed at intervals. if it has become impossible for you to act as a friend then only the strongest of bonds will survive that forever. this is life.

yeah... it takes a lot of work

depression hasn't really affected my friendships, probably bc i don't feel there's much to say about it in my situation; and also bc mine isn't tied up with any circumstantial stuff like employment/finances/loss/etc. and i have my husband to unload on. but it's stopped me from making new friends.

so keep in mind that your friend/s probably have other people depending on them for a lot of emotional support, esp partners and family members that you might not know about.

When you hate yourself, you're kind of amazed that others might care for you, and you and up punishing them for this flaw in their judgments. A very pernicious cycle.

yes. there's related self-hate cycle re friends/ loved ones in my experience-- which is about self-punishment, in form of self-excommunication

of course one has enough self-awareness to realize that (especially when this applies to established friends) this hurts them (not just oneself), but this fact-- the fact that one is a bad friend, hurtful to one's friends-- only contributes to spiral of self-loathing & guilt & unworthiness, which intensifies drive toward self-punishing withdrawal (as if one was creature unfit for human society)

cross-reference to introvert thread: part of the insidiousness of introvert/depressive combo is that this kind of self-punishment (e.g. entailing solitude) is not (prima facie) that painful for the introvert (compared to non-introvert); it's relatively comfortable exile/ prison-- which lures one further into extended & ever-deepening spiral/ cycle of self-punishing incommunicado exile

of course one has enough self-awareness to realize that (especially when this applies to established friends) this hurts them (not just oneself), but this fact-- the fact that one is a bad friend, hurtful to one's friends-- only contributes to spiral of self-loathing & guilt & unworthiness, which intensifies drive toward self-punishing withdrawal (as if one was creature unfit for human society)

Feeling all of this, although my own present take is a much more muted self-loathing. Largely because the asocial ramparts have held for so long that most people have stopped trying at this point.

drash, that post is painfully otm, but in doing some algebra, I think right now that quarantining myself will hurt them less than emotionally vomiting all over them. But yeah, doesn't mean that I'm also not meting out punishment at the same time.

Two things that are giving me hope today: had a happy memory with a friend pop into my head randomly, and it felt so nice, albeit briefly, and that I'm going to see a psychiatrist later today (I'm already seeing another therapist).

hope all goes well with that leee

i havent gone back into therapy yet, but im feeling considerably more stable of late than i was most of the summer, and it seems like it might be sustainable. (still plan on retrying therapy though, i've already learned my lesson about white-knuckling)

almost ready to quit life ... almost

i dunno, man -- it's my understanding that you are singularly grebt

tallies with the records I have on my screen tbh

that may be - tho i doubt it - but it's just been such a slog lately, just going through the motions, no joy in anything

"The letter writer expressly says her friend has become "depressed over the past year", then goes on to describe her behavior. After reading how her friend is acting, I'd say the letter writer was using "depressed" very loosely to mean her friend is deeply unhappy. From what I read her unhappiness doesn't look like real depression at all, but rather like someone who is full of barely suppressed anger."

i take strong exception to your implication that someone who is angry about their situation doesn't have "real depression". when i don't have the strength to leave the apartment, when i have to spend a tremendous amount of energy fighting off intrusive thoughts, when i do everything "right" but feel terrible regardless, that makes me angry. i don't find "miserable" and "pissed-off" to be mutually exclusive states.

it strikes me that there's perhaps a parallel to how we treat poor people. shame and self-blame is ok, but if they start making trouble, if they start lashing out about their situation, we all stand in line to condemn them. personally i view depression as a sort of emotional poverty.

Hi 5, tlg. You are grate and you'll always have ilxors on your side.

yes, certainly

yep.

co-sign

rushomancy, let me offer my apologies. In no way did I intend to belittle your misery when I said that being deeply unhappy and angry with one's life are, to my mind, different types of misery than depression. If you identify with the friend who was described in that letter, then I can see how you would also take my opinion as applying to you personally. I am quite willing to retract my statement and allow that you are suffering from depression. You have my sympathy regardless.

ah, don't worry about me. i'm getting by, and i'm not personally insulted by what you said or anything- just didn't accord with my experience is all.

Went out with friends and had a slow motion breakdown.

sounds hype

Past the worst of it only this morning.

Afraid of what the wreckage looks like.

:( sorry to hear that leee

q:

has anyone read anything good on depression as a self-harm disorder? not as in cutting and such, but just as a generalized act/mode of action/living undertaken by the sufferer despite its being harmful to the sufferer? emotional/affective/social self-harm.

i was reading a bit of philosophical ethics focused on traditional notions of the irrationality of self-harm, which is why i thought to ask. i suppose some cbt-related stuff might fit in here, though that's not necessarily all i have in mind (i hope, never dug that stuff).

Having felt like stabbing myself, I would say that it would've been a way to distract me from the emotions that I couldn't control. It nearly felt like a physical itch, too.

self-sabotage definitely a recurring theme in depression
though i also have some... questionable marks