mountaineering

w/r/t the top climbers dying: if you're still doing significant climbs when you're in your 30s-40s, it means you're exceptionally safe, generally. when top mountaineers die, it has less to do with them having taken it that one step further, and more to do with numbers: thousands of hours spent in the mountains will eventually get you into an epic. contrast this with driving a car, and the numbers will favor mountaineering any day---it's just that cars have seatbelts and airbags and emergency medical services, and climbers have a rope with another guy at the end of it.

you should try it sometime, dan! literally every person i've taken out climbing has loved it, even if they were terrified at the outset. not all of them have gone on to be "climbers," but it was a rewarding experience for them all the same.

an added bonus: climbing is an excuse to go really interesting places.

damn, a thread for me and I won't be able to enjoy it today.

http://www.gymjones.com/images/disciples/disciple_1_2.jpg

nice oakleys, bro.

Another observation: most people I've ever known who have been climbers are a completely bizarre mix of the heartfelt romantic and the utterly pragmatic!

Touching The Void is one of my favourite documentaries, partly because it seems to recognise the above dichotomy.

also i like this book:

http://www.whittakermountaineering.com/pimages/products/book_seven_summits_thb.jpg

btw, he looks like sport climbing nonce and not a mountaineer.

Ascent of Rum-doodle, best mountaineering narrative, ever.

haha, that is Mark Twight, free-soloing the Aiguille du Midi, sometime in the 90s??? he's a bit of a dick, and would probably crush anyone that accused him of being a sport-climber

ompletely bizarre mix of the heartfelt romantic and the utterly pragmatic

see also dirtbags who can barely feed themselves and/or pay rent, but will spend hours organizing their shit, cutting the labels off things, and training.

I haven't climbed in years and I recently dumped a load of mouldering climbing gear that I wouldn't want to trust now. I was never that good a climber, much better at the lightly technical end of climbing big mountains. I did enjoy the beef between the high end french (bolt-clipping nonces) climbers and the british. (What do you mean you are not prepared to take a 10 foot ripper on to 000 copperhead balanced behind that wobbly flake, you french sportclimbing nonce).

The stuff of pub arguments. I need to get back into the hills.

I'd really love to try climbing. Anything that gets me near a mountain is fine by me. I've done a lot of hiking and i could spend months doing that shit over and over. I'll probably live near the Alps next year so will try and find some people to go climbing with me. The problem with this kind of thing, i assume, is that you really need to go with someone experienced at first so as to learn the basics. And i know no such people :(

http://www.climbing.com/photo/image/travelclimbing/travelclimbing9.jpg
rawr hhawt want

then again, climbing mags are the only magazines i've read that have permanent obituary sections

You don't read Mojo, then?

climber doods would be mad at me if they knew i'd never climbed a mountain, never skiied on a mountain, or really ever done anything but looked at a mountain, and i've lived in colorado all my life. however, i did take a train up a mountain once in switzerland. river wolf didnt you used to live in aspen? where should i go for mountaineering?

Vertical Frontier, about the history of climbing in Yellowstone, was very good! Lots of funny interviews and some SERIOUSLY classic '70s dirtbag photos/footage. Like, flooded muddy basecamp and tarps spread to keep all the equipment dry while it was checked, coils and harnesses and a hundred little tools fanned out in perfect lines, overseen by filthy sweat-stained ridiculously wiry twenty-somethings with crazy beards.

homo2: i did! there's loads of relatively easy mountaineering to be done in Colorado (ie non-technical), what with the abundance of 14ers and the like. at that sort of altitude, though, even easy stuff becomes tricky--I tried a summer ascent of Cathedral, but it we started a little late, and it was slower going than expected once we got up to the knife edge. i'm sure, however, there are plenty of 11-12k peaks with not too difficult walk ups, that will still provide plenty of thrills, w/o too much actual danger.

also, jhoshea otm.

Laurel: pics from Yosemite in the 70s are fucking hilarious. Camp 4 was basically the center of the universe there, and dudes were doing insane-o shit on gear that would terrify the average climber today. my dad told we stories of climbing in Wales, where he and his friends would walk along the railroad bed and pick up actual hex nuts lying on the ground (presumably thrown from the train), sling them, and use them as chocks.

I haven't climbed in years and I recently dumped a load of mouldering climbing gear that I wouldn't want to trust now. I was never that good a climber, much better at the lightly technical end of climbing big mountains. I did enjoy the beef between the high end french (bolt-clipping nonces) climbers and the british. (What do you mean you are not prepared to take a 10 foot ripper on to 000 copperhead balanced behind that wobbly flake, you french sportclimbing nonce).

The stuff of pub arguments. I need to get back into the hills.

-- Ed, Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:06 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Link

copperheads are terrifying, holy shit. i've never been in a position to use/trust one, but even the idea of copperheads freaks me out. but not as much as hooking. whenever i hear about dudes aid climbing like 200+ foot pitches with basically nothing but hooks, i want to barf a little.

I love mountains and being around them, but you are not going to catch me doing any more than a strenuous hike. I'd like to hike up Half Dome, for instance. I have no desire to hang from the side of a vertical thing.

When I was doing a lot of pictched climbing the hardest climb in britain (therefore the world, oh the arrogance) was called parthian shot. Only a few people had ever done it, E9 8c?. To complete it you had to do a massive dynamic jump protected by a 00 friend behind a wobbly flake. The stuff of legend. It was generally agreed that it was better to free climb it than to lead it.

Yes, the Ystone footage also includes people talking about what they used for equip before stuff was commercially available, it's incredible that any of them survived. Pieces of auto chassis because the steel was heavier-gauge, etc etc.

(climbing in yellowstone?)

i love mountains and want to be near them often, but without enormous amounts of free time my interest is reasonably well sated by dayhiking or backpacking, and i don't really have a strong desire to get into mountaineering, nor would i likely be the type to do well at it (and i'd be probably be physically unable to be a serious mountaineer even in the incredibly unlikely event I magically got into the shape that's necessary). but my interest in mountains and wilderness is sufficient that i do have some desire to acquire basic mountaineering skills and summit some of your more accessible/frequented peaks. i wonder if my desire would extend beyond that if i did so.

(oh, yosemite, i see. the people who made that movie are supposedly making this

Ed, the hardest trad climb in the world is back in Britain, I think? Some young dude just did something on grit that has like a V13 bouldery crux, protected by a single slider nut. it's fucking bonkers.

parthian shot was originally put up by john dunne, i think? dude was/is crazy.

(btw i think laurel means yosemite--not much climbing in yellowstone)

summiting more easily accessible peaks doesn't really take that much in the way of know-how. if you're somewhere w/o glaciers (ie - most of the lower 48), then you just need to know basic knots (figure 8, clove, butterfly, prusik, and a handful of others), belay technique (you can learn in 5 minutes), and rope management. after that, it's mostly just mileage with someone who knows what they're doing.

Some young dude just did something on grit that has like a V13 bouldery crux, protected by a single slider nut. it's fucking bonkers.

I think it's this guy: http://www.davemacleod.blogspot.com/

His photo section freaks me out.

yeah, well I mean to some extent Tetons/CO 14'ers, but one day I'd really like to climb Rainier (and other Cascades?)

ooh i think yr right elvis:

23 years later MacLeod has now straightened the line out by climbing the headwall direct instead of finishing off right. He placed all the gear on lead and fell off the crux 9 times prior to the successful ascent - 20 meters onto a RP, the smallest of nuts on the market! He has put forward an incredible E11 7a for his "Rhapsody" which, needless to say, is obviously a strong contender for one of the hardest trad pitches in the world. "Rhapsody" is the first route to break the legendary E10 barrier...

20m onto an RP! YIKES

RW OTM, there is a lot that can be done with some decent and fairly stiff boots and a couple of slings to toss over spikes. I often wonder if scrambling might not be the best, or at least most pleasant orm of mountaineering.

Feel my beard.

I should start smoking a pipe.

I'm really envious of people who mountaineer given that my experience is more like gabbneb's. My problem is that I really am not all that comfortable at altitude in places of peril; I can ski down anything, I love to hike, I'm definitely fit enough to take on something like Ranier, but I'm just kind of wigged out by the thought of even being roped in and walking along a precipice. Maybe it's my kids that have scared some sort of responsibility into me.

this thread is making me think that taking all of next year off to live in Chamonix might not be a terrible idea

Remember me to M. Le Camping in Argentiere. (PS I will come and Ski/climb/canyon and shit with you)

do it before kids suck the life out of you.

w/r/t kids and responsibility:

my buddy (father of two) needlessly free-soloed a detached pillar last week (5.7), told his belayer to "watch him" at the crux (what, watch you fall?), started the second pitch, and then put a LOCKER on the first nut, you know, for added security. UH.

not really sure where i was going with that

that would be great, Ed! i think i'm going to plan on doing the Haute Route (or something similar) next spring, regardless.

that's kind of exactly why I don't mountaineer. Because I'd undoubtedly put my dumb ass into dumb positions where the only thing I'd leave behind is an "OHHHHHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT" and a will.

Oh yeah sorry many parks with Ys and mountains. In a hurry here.

Does Yellowstone have mountains? Big nature, anyway.

sure it does! they're just not rock climby mountains, they're walky-scrambly mountains you can ski on.

You know how I feel about walking. Skiing is good, though, I miss skiing.

I have done some mountain climbing with my father, because he read that "Seven Summits' book and got really into it. This was ten years ago, when we were both stronger and a little less spooked. I'm not really a technical climber at all, everything was guided and we were "clients" so it's really just about making time for it, paying for it, and putting one foot in front of the other for a long long time. Together my father and I summited Kilimanjaro, the Matterhorn, and the Grand Teton. Really bad weather held us back from a summit of Mt. Rainier. What a cold and nasty mountain that can be . . . . My dad attempted Chimborazo (sp?) in South America but bad weather and I think overall fatigue stopped him there. My longest mountain trip was a hike accompanying an Everest expedition; there were people who had paid big, big bucks to summit Everest, and I just trekked with them up to Advanced Base Camp on the Tibet side. My personal highest elevation was scored on that trip: 21,000 feet. I kind of miss doing this, but it was always my father's idea to go on these kinds of trips and I was more into spending time with him than the manly / macho side (full disclosure: I kind of couldn't stand most of the people who are typically the "clients" on these trips, all Type A dudes who are super competitive and frequently right wing, it was an odd mix of hippy leftist guides and macho CEO dickhead clients). But I sure do recall the psychological/physical weirdness of high altitudes.

wait, the presidential range in NH? i'm down with 'em

yes, a kid i grew up with spent a year living at the peak of mount washington. i think he was working for the n.o.a.a. or something. whomever maintains the weather station up there. worst winter weather in the continental u.s. is on top of that mountain.

wow at drew. i'd like to do everest base camp some day.

Tibet was an amazing place to visit, but Everest Base Camp itself is a grim place. Lots of feces everywhere, a kind of weird concrete bunker where the Chinese army dudes hang out, little clusters of expeditions huddling against the wind. From our encampment we could use a telescope to spot the corpses of some members of a previous expedition that some people on our trip had known and climbed with. They'd look through the spyglass at a particular ledge and you'd see this little clump of colorful mountain climbing clothing. "That's Marty". It was disturbing. At that point the elevation was starting to affect my mind, and I was getting paranoid, walking by people and thinking they were talking about me. The worst part was that people on the expedition would be denouncing each other about health problems: "You've got Cheyne-Stokes! I heard you breathing in your tent last night! You've got to descend right now." Some people had been training for a year for this trip and they would be devastated when they got the bad news that the group as a whole had decided that they were too sick to continue and had to be sent down to a lower elevation. It was like some kind of 'voted off the island" thing, but it wasn't TV. At one point a guide got edema and we had to zip him into a Gamow bag and take turns for hours pumping this bag to create an artificial lower altitude inside it. He was sent back. By the time I was at Advanced Base Camp I was as cold and exhausted as I have ever been, but the Everest *is* amazing. There's no way to describe the scale of it, it simply goes beyond the way I think about the size of objects.

wow at drew. i'd like to do everest base camp some day.

-- gabbneb, Tuesday, 29 May 2007 19:10 (1 hour ago) Link

no kidding. yowza, Drew. i'm hoping to climb the Grand sometime soonish, once the snows recede--did you guys do Exum Ridge, do you recall?

but yeah, OTM w/r/t hippy guides and type-a middle-aged men. also, everest base camp has been a problem for a while now: it's sort of a dump, from what i've heard? like, O2 bottles and other detritus all over the place.

http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/68795/Mt_qjgenth.jpg