HP Lovecraft - Classic Or Dud?

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An interesting what-if -- had Lovecraft survived and continued to write fiction in the wake of World War II, what would his stories have been like? Post Hitler and post A-bomb, hrm...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 February 2003 17:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

numerous people have combined Lovecraftian themes with the Nazis... given Himmler's interests in the occult it's not much of a leap to imagine the Nazis as servants of The Eater Of Souls.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 7 February 2003 17:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

I usedta be friends with people that were into the whole lovecraft occult thing, or maybe just the WHOLE occult thing. They usedta sit and discuss the occult points of his novels interspersing this with monty python quotes now THAT is scary.

Jeffrey (Danny), Friday, 7 February 2003 17:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

But did they ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE SHIT WAS REAL? I mean, who on earth thinks this is real? I mean, he was honestly paranoid about the coming of Cthulhu. I was kept up all night on at least three occasions DISCUSSING this.

This person also stayed up all night on two occasions freaking about the implications of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre in relation to whether or not he had any of the massacrists personality traits and if it made him a terrible person. The last episode of Twin Peaks also set him off in similar fashion about "dirty" versus "clean" and various personality traits he was certain he shared with Windom Earle. So maybe the whole Cthulhu thing was relative to a bigger issue than HP Lovecraft.

In retrospect, it implies more about my sanity than his that I put up with it, but regardless it was obviously the workings of a completely unhinged mind. Monty Python quotes would've been the saving grace of nonseriousness.

Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 7 February 2003 18:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

>But did they ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE SHIT WAS REAL? I mean, who on
> earth thinks this is real?

Occultists will, generally, believe anything they want to believe in.
The Necronomicon is no more fake than any other "real" occult book of forbiden knowledge.

Ned: If Lovecraft survived, I believe he would have continued his trend of writing more science-fictiony type stuff. He became disenchanted with his more occult/magical stuff, which he refered to as "Yog-Sothothery".


fletrejet, Friday, 7 February 2003 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

I got a hummer about five feet from his grave once.

The stories are great, also; the best editions are the hardbacks put out by Arkham House. They also published his letters, which are often quite interesting--to the likes of R.E. Howard etc.

Ian Johnson, Friday, 7 February 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ned: If Lovecraft survived, I believe he would have continued his trend of writing more science-fictiony type stuff. He became disenchanted with his more occult/magical stuff, which he refered to as "Yog-Sothothery".

Makes sense. "At the Mountains of Madness" certainly showed the way (and was plenty chilling enough without that sheer freakout at the end, a little bit of the ol' Yog there).

Yeeps, Ally.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 February 2003 21:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

anyone ever read "The Walls Of Eryx"? it's set on Venus and while still being a scary horrore story does not have any Cthulhu Mythosy elements.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 7 February 2003 21:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ned knows exactly whom I'm talking about too. Anyone who met him (ie anyone who had the misfortune of being at the first NYC FAP for example) probably finds this hysterical!

I know nothing of Lovecraft's works besides this, of course. He was referred to as sort of a scientist by the ex, imagine my surprise to read this thread.

Ally (mlescaut), Saturday, 8 February 2003 02:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

I disagree that his Cthulhu mythos stories were his best.
They were great, to be sure, but some of them were
perfunctory (probably in his later years). In my mind
his best stories were: Pickman's Model, Cool Air, and
The Colour Out Of Space, and, ESPECIALLY the Rats In The
Walls. RITW definitely needs it's punchline, I think it
would be utterly spoiled if you knew what happened at the
end...

Actually though, I think most of Lovecraft's stories are
good. I never read any of the novels. And I also disagree
that he was a bad/good author; sure his language was
sensationalistic and overblow, but it still has a great
flow to it. And he is archaic but the first books I
ever read were Edgar Rice Burroughs and Lang's Coloured
Fairy Tale series, so I think I've always been very
comfortable with that type of language.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Saturday, 8 February 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...
I think part of his brilliance is the way that he employs obscure (/uses of) words (gambrel, cyclopean) and repetition to turn up the tension, when by all reason it shouldn't work.

I understand these trends intensified as his life continued. One of his last manuscripts was destroyed except for a single page, and on that page only one sentence appears in full:

"It was with a terrible and dawning horror that I realised that something unsmurfy had taken place."

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Sunday, 9 March 2003 22:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

When he's doing creepy/gothic stuff, he's classic. When he's doing rambling, interminable Dunsany riffs, he's dud.

ChristineSH (chrissie1068), Sunday, 9 March 2003 23:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

ten months pass...
RE-VIVE

omg, Thursday, 22 January 2004 00:55 (twenty years ago) link

Yog-sothoth, our friend.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 January 2004 00:59 (twenty years ago) link

Hmm. I'm divided on Lovecraft. I read a lot of the stories in my teens and they were good and addictive, as good horror/fantasy should be. You kept reading in the hope you would discover more
forbidden secrets about his world. But what did it all amount to? i'm not sure....i'll write more soon possibly

pete s, Thursday, 22 January 2004 01:31 (twenty years ago) link

The French biography about him has some interesting stuff. Compares his fear of sex to his objects of horror, talks about xenophobia and paranoia in his stories vs. his real life etc.

95% of his horror-type writing is beyond classic, especially because the stilted writing makes it sound like it's actual lost antique blasphemies that have been hidden in Stygian tombs for eons beyond count. His Dunsany stuff is crap, "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" is the one thing by him I could never get thru. He has some poetry too which is awful, if you can find it. Have never read his political essays but those are probably pretty un-PC and not really worth reading unless you are ultra-completist.

sucka (sucka), Thursday, 22 January 2004 04:44 (twenty years ago) link

Oh yeah and destroy everything filed under his name which is actually junky stuff written by other people and revised by him/used his settings/were based on his notes after he died.

sucka (sucka), Thursday, 22 January 2004 04:46 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
The Wall Street Journal celebrates. (With some help from the National Review.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I have a soft spot for "The Dreams In The Witch House"

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link

can be weirdly racist and prudish, but undisputably classsick. he casts a loooooooong shadow over horror/sci-fi (not to mention the occult). See also: RW Chambers "The King in Yellow".

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Interesting article that riled me up.

"As with so much genre fiction, Lovecraft's oeuvre isn't for everyone."

'Look at him, he's too imaginative.' Fuck you, no one's OEUVRE is for everyone. Lovecraft is in a direct line from Nathaniel Hawthorne, EA Poe, and Charlotte Perkins Gilman to Thomas Pynchon, Kathy Acker, and Stephen King. But I guess the Wall Street Journal writing about literature is like the Wall Street Journal writing about music.

Carl Solomon, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link

in other words: "might freak you out if all you're used to thinking about is money"

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...
Good article on the Cthulu Film Festival in the new Believer, possibly with quotes from Allyzay's ex-boyfriend (not really, just another borderline Cthulu-is-real-ist)

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 20 May 2005 00:01 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
What an excellent essay, thanks for the link!

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Friday, 13 October 2006 00:38 (seventeen years ago) link

just got done working this over the last weekend.

kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 13 October 2006 02:27 (seventeen years ago) link

luc sante - never not classic

a portal to squee heaven (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 13 October 2006 02:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I have a Cuddly Cthulhu. This one, in fact.
http://www.ceres.dti.ne.jp/~dune/cthulhuplush_i/cuddly1.jpg
He sits on my computer at work. A number of people have asked me what he was.

My two fave Lovecraft stories are The Colour Out of Space, which reminds me(or it should be the other way around, I think) of Brian Aldiss' The Saliva Tree and

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Friday, 13 October 2006 11:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Call of Cthulhu the the roleplaying game is classic.

chap who would dare to contain two ingredients. Tea and bags. (chap), Friday, 13 October 2006 12:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Call of Cthulhu the the roleplaying game is classic.

Favorite section of any of the CoC roleplaying books: the sidebar in Cthulhu Now! that finally addresses the question of "What happens when you drop a nuclear bomb on Cthulhu?"

A. Cthulhu blows apart but then reassembles back together. Only now he's radioactive.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 13 October 2006 15:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Classic.

This may be the dorkiest thread on ILE.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I have to confess I've been to his grave - it's right in Providence.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:38 (seventeen years ago) link

That essay does look great, and I did enjoy reading the Michel H. essay. I suspect I would like nothing else by him.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Classic.

This may be the dorkiest thread on ILE.

-- Edward III (ehonaue...), October 13th, 2006.

hardly!

latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I have to confess I've been to his grave - it's right in Providence.

According to the epitaph on his grave, he *is* Providence.

elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

hardly!

Examples?

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:52 (seventeen years ago) link

http://static.flickr.com/29/60826557_30af0013ba_m.jpg

elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Aye, that's the one.

Ned, I assume nobody took you there during Terrastock 6?

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 16:55 (seventeen years ago) link

see any star trek/star wars/sf/horror movie thread!

latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Or even that Alien mothership thread, actually.

Ed -- alas no! We wuz too busy with the rock and roll, I guess.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I have to confess I've been to his grave - it's right in Providence.

I've been there too. Even picked up the $$ "Lovecraft's Providence" at the Brown bookstore.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Adorable Angry Cthulhu!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/LimitedLiabilityGirl/hellocthulhu.gif

Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 13 October 2006 17:29 (seventeen years ago) link

hahaha!!

He was also frightened of invertebrates, marine life in general, temperatures below freezing, fat people, people of other races, race-mixing, slums, percussion instruments, caves, cellars, old age, great expanses of time, monumental architecture, non-Euclidean geometry, deserts, oceans, rats, dogs, the New England countryside, New York City, fungi and molds, viscous substances, medical experiments, dreams, brittle textures, gelatinous textures, the color gray, plant life of diverse sorts, memory lapses, old books, heredity, mists, gases, whistling, whispering

geoff (gcannon), Friday, 13 October 2006 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll take "Things In Every Vagina" for $400, Alex.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:00 (seventeen years ago) link

We wuz too busy with the rock and roll, I guess.

Or trying to find breakfast...

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

"The monikers he hangs on his otherworldly manifestations—Nyarlathotep, Yog-Sothoth, Tsathoggua—are evocatively miscegenated constructions in which can be seen bits of ancient Egyptian, Arabic, Hebrew, Old Norse."

Tsathoggua was created by Clark Ashton Smith, not Lovecraft. I hope this Luc Sante moron gets fired for that.

wostyntje (wostyntje), Friday, 13 October 2006 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the reason I was so annoyed by fletrejet spilling the beans about the twist ending up there is that it's the only one of his stories that has one, any more.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 13 October 2006 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

luc sante vs. klarkash-ton's ghost FITE

GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Friday, 13 October 2006 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Went up to Boston this evening to join a bunch of people walking the
path described in Pickman's Model, to the location of Pickman's studio,
where someone read the story out loud in a dark courtyard at the end of a
narrow alleyway.
(Supposedly the story took place 80 years ago, today. Don't know where
they got that. (Perhaps he finished writing it 80 years ago today?))
There were about 35 people in the group.

shieldforyoureyes (shieldforyoureyes), Saturday, 14 October 2006 06:11 (seventeen years ago) link


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