otm
― the lion tweets tonight (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:23 (eight years ago) link
i feel like this whole debate is pretty much typical of modern capitalism, huge corporations construct a system that's a massive scam then all the blame is placed on individuals for their small, insignificant little choices within that system.
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:27 (eight years ago) link
like i saw someone post a thing to facebook about like "IF YOU EAT ALMONDS IT'S YOUR FAULT CALIFORNIA HAS A DROUGHT" like really? my fault they let nestle suck their water dry and wouldn't even impose fucking lawn watering bans until it was too late?
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:28 (eight years ago) link
also otm
― the lion tweets tonight (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:32 (eight years ago) link
UMS OTM
― Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:41 (eight years ago) link
do people really have music they stream every time they want to listen to it? The hassle of that is prohibitive imo - I often have shitty wifi. If I really like something I want to make sure I have it for keeps.
― kinder, Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:52 (eight years ago) link
I'd say I'm streaming 90% of the time I'm listening to music at home.
― Jeff, Thursday, 6 August 2015 13:55 (eight years ago) link
I'm only 10% of a good person.
David Byrne weighs in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/opinion/sunday/open-the-music-industrys-black-box.html?_r=0
― sleeve, Thursday, 6 August 2015 14:36 (eight years ago) link
I usually will stream a full album from youtube because it is quicker to type in "_____ full album" than to wait for iTunes to open and search in there.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:01 (eight years ago) link
― kinder, Thursday, August 6, 2015 9:52 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yea i pretty much only stream at work, and use streaming only to discover new music and check things out i've heard about. at home & in the car it is music i own. i think if i had an aux port in my car though i would stop buying music and just do spotify premium for the download-to-phone option
― marcos, Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:08 (eight years ago) link
wow, this Richard Street-Jammer post on Invisible Oranges really opened our eyes
― dick wet with chickenshit (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:24 (eight years ago) link
It's kind of hard for me to attach any moral dimension on streaming music. Knowing the history of labels screwing artists over, all kinds of dirty accounting tricks, albums 'falling off the back of trucks', artists getting screwed out of money even when they have supposedly solid deals, etc.
It's not artists making deals with the streaming services, it's the labels. It's not consumers deciding what amount goes to artists, it's the labels. The moral imperative to treat artists well should fall on labels alone imo. The idea that the consumer is morally responsible is great for taking that load off the labels. Now they have multiple scapegoats: streaming services AND consumers.
I asked Apple Music to explain the calculation of royalties for the trial period. They said they disclosed that only to copyright owners (that is, the labels). I have my own label and own the copyright on some of my albums, but when I turned to my distributor, the response was, “You can’t see the deal, but you could have your lawyer call our lawyer and we might answer some questions.”
Insane that this is David Byrne, one of the most well-known musicians in the world, and a smart cookie who has given lectures and written books on the topic. And even he can't penetrate the fog.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:35 (eight years ago) link
I buy albums first. Then I stream them anyway. I'm a very good person, obv.
― longneck, Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:46 (eight years ago) link
how do you DJ with streamed music? how do you sample streamed music?
― 9 days from now a.k.a next weekend. (dog latin), Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:52 (eight years ago) link
my listening habits, for a long time, have involved making myself gapless mixes of recent listening or based around a theme. that's a big part of why i can't stand a stream.
― 9 days from now a.k.a next weekend. (dog latin), Thursday, 6 August 2015 15:53 (eight years ago) link
how do you DJ with streamed music?
use a hard wired ethernet connection, not wifi :)
how do you sample streamed music?
analog output to digital recorder
― sleeve, Thursday, 6 August 2015 16:05 (eight years ago) link
how do you get your hair to shine like that?
― j., Thursday, 6 August 2015 16:10 (eight years ago) link
here's the pertinent graph:
http://f.cl.ly/items/2n2e0L1V1z1m161j153y/ClouDrop%206%20Aug%202015%2015%3A44%3A16%206%20Aug%202015%2015%3A44%3A16.png
― transparent play for gifs (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 6 August 2015 19:48 (eight years ago) link
interesting timing on that drop there around 2007, I wonder if any confounding factors could have caused it
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Thursday, 6 August 2015 19:53 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/dKoBZl7.png
MORE VINYL IS BACK THINKPIECES WE NEED MORE VINYL IS BACK THINKPIECES
― dick wet with chickenshit (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 August 2015 19:57 (eight years ago) link
That slope is probably an inverse curve of piratebay traffic numbers.
― schwantz, Thursday, 6 August 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/history-pirate-bay-will-return/
― schwantz, Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:00 (eight years ago) link
I dunno, that chart is saying CDs were outselling cassettes as early as 1985. That can't be right, since CDs were still twice as expensive, and players were REALLY expensive (and not nearly as ubiquitous as cassette players).
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:19 (eight years ago) link
I don't think you're reading that graph right. Looks more like around 92-93.
― schwantz, Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:30 (eight years ago) link
the height of curves in that chart is cumulative, so in 1985 CDs are the tiny light blue segment on top of an even split between cassettes and vinyl.
― juggulo for the complete klvtz (bendy), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:33 (eight years ago) link
I'm thinking that as digital music gets sorted out and services gradually up their price and ad rates, it will get to about where the early 80's collapse was, and flatline there, 8.5 billion. No more Saturday Night Fever or format change anomalies.
― juggulo for the complete klvtz (bendy), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:41 (eight years ago) link
most people i've met who make music for a living (or are involved in the production of music, live or recorded) pulled themselves up by their bootstraps
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:43 (eight years ago) link
man, feel old saying this, but "what are the trends with the young people" in regards to purchasing digital music/subscribing to streaming services vs. just downloading it somewhere or going to youtube? my guess is that anyone who came of age after early 2000s is pretty used to easily getting what they want for free at this point. might be hard to ever get them back to the idea of paying for it on a regular basis.
― 1992 ball boy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:44 (eight years ago) link
for my kids it's all youtube. they're happily amazed when I provide them with mp3s they want but it's totally unnecessary for them
when I was my oldest's age I was already scamming/being scammed by BMG/Columbia House. those were different times...
― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:48 (eight years ago) link
― schwantz, Thursday, August 6, 2015 4:30 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― juggulo for the complete klvtz (bendy), Thursday, August 6, 2015 4:33 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
OK, yeah, that definitely makes more sense.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 6 August 2015 20:58 (eight years ago) link
― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, August 6, 2015 4:48 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
My dad has a pekingese and I don't think he even cares about music at all!
― dick wet with chickenshit (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:01 (eight years ago) link
does he like pugs?
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:04 (eight years ago) link
my mother in law is thinking about getting a pug. she just got an iphone too! don't know what her position on streaming music is.
― tylerw, Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:07 (eight years ago) link
your moms like my pug
― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:08 (eight years ago) link
That graph is fascinating -- I hadn't realized that there had been a brief period where CDs' dominance meant massively more spending than ever before on recorded music.
― five six and (man alive), Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:55 (eight years ago) link
Also interesting that CDs are still well ahead of streaming, though probably not for much longer
― five six and (man alive), Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:56 (eight years ago) link
i mean it is crazy - someone was just talking on twitter about how almost 15 million people paid between $12-$16 for hootie and the blowfish's first album.
― tylerw, Thursday, 6 August 2015 21:59 (eight years ago) link
Great interview with a Columbia House insider about that 90s CD $$$$ heydays
http://www.avclub.com/article/four-columbia-house-insiders-explain-shady-math-be-219964
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 6 August 2015 22:02 (eight years ago) link
stop telling me how to think, and how to feel. there is too much second-person directive since the beatles broke
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 August 2015 22:59 (eight years ago) link
with a love like that, you know you should be glad
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 August 2015 23:00 (eight years ago) link
yeah yeah yeah
you've hypnotized me with those crazy eyes of yoursyou've cracked me open like a coconutyou've got me crawling round and round you on all fours
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 August 2015 23:07 (eight years ago) link
yes yes yes yes yes
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 August 2015 23:08 (eight years ago) link
you are inside a building, a well house for a large streaming
― for sale: baby shoes, never worn your ass (katherine), Thursday, 6 August 2015 23:09 (eight years ago) link
watch outyou might get what you're after
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 6 August 2015 23:09 (eight years ago) link
A Kiwi perspective, Russell Brown is pretty otm as usual
http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/friday-music-not-just-consumers-but-patrons/
I always use Bandcamp if I can. Monetarily for small artists, the margin between streaming and piracy seems so tiny as to be negligible. I was surprised that it took so long for Apple to encroach onto Spotify's turf (streaming). Is there any sign that Spotify will retaliate by offering paid downloads?
― flyingtrain (sbahnhof), Friday, 7 August 2015 05:14 (eight years ago) link
my guess is that anyone who came of age after early 2000s is pretty used to easily getting what they want for free at this point. might be hard to ever get them back to the idea of paying for it on a regular basis.
i'm likely to pay for spotify and apple music in the longer term because they both offer their own unique discovery features (curated playlists based on my tastes, radio-like streams &c.). i can't speak for ~the youth~ obv but imo it's that sort of play that will keep subscription services going. not everyone will pay but that's been the case since compact cassettes.
― Autumn Almanac, Friday, 7 August 2015 07:24 (eight years ago) link
not everyone will pay but that's been the case since compact cassettes.
Those bloody compact cassettes! You make a good point - lots of this stuff has older equivalents. People find a way to get more music for less money. (No judgment on them, I include myself in that.)
Just like how 2nd-hand record buying has existed ever since Edison sold off all his old wax cylinders. There's not really a way to measure how much money from all 2nd-hand sales goes back into buying new music... hopefully more than 0.5c per track, but it's not a great benchmark.
It annoys me that Spotify, etc, are acting as if they think the way forward is streaming without owning music. It's disingenuous on their part. If they offered paid downloads alongside streaming, it would benefit all parties, as far as I can tell. And it would put downloading back on the agenda, at least.
I just can't foresee a time when everyone will be paying $10/month, even people who barely listen to music, or wouldn't listen online. It's a great deal for some, but meaningless to others.
What is the target number of subscribers to make the business model work? (i.e. replace music sales :-)
― flyingtrain (sbahnhof), Friday, 7 August 2015 23:15 (eight years ago) link
subscription services have always had a base though: newspapers, magazines, doubleday book club, that record club i can't remember the name of that was constantly a full-page ad in the nme, even gym memberships that 80% of people never use but keep paying for anyway. this model is not really all that different, and if they can really get a grip on discovery/curation as the differentiator, loads of people will think nothing of starting and keeping a pretty cheap monthly subscription.
services like curation will also address the fact that an industry that was built on 100 years of scarcity (e.g. controlling how many cds/records/amberol cylinders get made) and ~fucking ads~ (radio stations, video clip shows on tv) can no longer treat music as a manufactured commodity, and needs to shed generations of defensive behaviour if it's going to survive.
― Autumn Almanac, Friday, 7 August 2015 23:43 (eight years ago) link
forgot about this thread.
so did we get this sordid
― he's very big in the region of my butthole (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 February 2022 21:15 (two years ago) link
This sounds like a cool idea: https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/inside-the-fight-to-fix-economic-inequality-in-dj-culture/
― DJI, Thursday, 30 June 2022 19:38 (one year ago) link