Stop Thinking of Yourself as a Good Person: The Ethics and Economics of Music Streaming

Or maybe we're just talking about giving advice to people you know nothing about?

the key thing being not to assume people are unaware of or interested in your views

http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/811#Shaftesbury_5987_284

sorry for libertyfund link

I HAVE often thought how ill-natur’d a Maxim it was, which, on many occasions, I have heard from People of good understanding; “That, as to what related to private Conduct, No-one was ever the better for Advice.’’ But upon farther Examination, I have resolv’d with my-self, that the Maxim might be admitted without any violent prejudice to Mankind. For in the manner Advice was generally given, there was no reason, I thought, to wonder it shou’d be so ill receiv’d. Something there was which strangely inverted the Case, and made the Giver to be the only Gainer. For by what I cou’d observe in many Occurrences of our Lives, That which we call’d giving Advice, was properly, taking an occasion to shew our own Wisdom, at another’s expence. On the other side, to be instructed, or to receive Advice on the terms usually prescrib’d to us, was little better than tamely to afford another the Occasion of raising himself a Character from our Defects.

In reality, however able or willing a Man may be to advise, ’tis no easy matter to make Advice a free Gift. For to make a Gift free indeed, there must be nothing in it which takes from Another, to add to Our-self. In all other respects, to give, and to dispense, is Generosity, and Good-will: but to bestow Wisdom, is to gain a Mastery which can’t so easily be allow’d us. Men willingly learn whatever else is taught ’em. They can bear a Master in Mathematicks, in Musick, or in any other Science; but not in Understanding and Good Sense.

otm

i feel like this whole debate is pretty much typical of modern capitalism, huge corporations construct a system that's a massive scam then all the blame is placed on individuals for their small, insignificant little choices within that system.

like i saw someone post a thing to facebook about like "IF YOU EAT ALMONDS IT'S YOUR FAULT CALIFORNIA HAS A DROUGHT" like really? my fault they let nestle suck their water dry and wouldn't even impose fucking lawn watering bans until it was too late?

also otm

UMS OTM

do people really have music they stream every time they want to listen to it? The hassle of that is prohibitive imo - I often have shitty wifi. If I really like something I want to make sure I have it for keeps.

I'd say I'm streaming 90% of the time I'm listening to music at home.

I'm only 10% of a good person.

David Byrne weighs in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/opinion/sunday/open-the-music-industrys-black-box.html?_r=0

I usually will stream a full album from youtube because it is quicker to type in "_____ full album" than to wait for iTunes to open and search in there.

do people really have music they stream every time they want to listen to it? The hassle of that is prohibitive imo - I often have shitty wifi. If I really like something I want to make sure I have it for keeps.

― kinder, Thursday, August 6, 2015 9:52 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea i pretty much only stream at work, and use streaming only to discover new music and check things out i've heard about. at home & in the car it is music i own. i think if i had an aux port in my car though i would stop buying music and just do spotify premium for the download-to-phone option

wow, this Richard Street-Jammer post on Invisible Oranges really opened our eyes

It's kind of hard for me to attach any moral dimension on streaming music. Knowing the history of labels screwing artists over, all kinds of dirty accounting tricks, albums 'falling off the back of trucks', artists getting screwed out of money even when they have supposedly solid deals, etc.

It's not artists making deals with the streaming services, it's the labels. It's not consumers deciding what amount goes to artists, it's the labels. The moral imperative to treat artists well should fall on labels alone imo. The idea that the consumer is morally responsible is great for taking that load off the labels. Now they have multiple scapegoats: streaming services AND consumers.

I asked Apple Music to explain the calculation of royalties for the trial period. They said they disclosed that only to copyright owners (that is, the labels). I have my own label and own the copyright on some of my albums, but when I turned to my distributor, the response was, “You can’t see the deal, but you could have your lawyer call our lawyer and we might answer some questions.”

Insane that this is David Byrne, one of the most well-known musicians in the world, and a smart cookie who has given lectures and written books on the topic. And even he can't penetrate the fog.

I buy albums first. Then I stream them anyway. I'm a very good person, obv.

how do you DJ with streamed music? how do you sample streamed music?

my listening habits, for a long time, have involved making myself gapless mixes of recent listening or based around a theme. that's a big part of why i can't stand a stream.

how do you DJ with streamed music?

use a hard wired ethernet connection, not wifi :)

how do you sample streamed music?

analog output to digital recorder

how do you get your hair to shine like that?

here's the pertinent graph:

http://f.cl.ly/items/2n2e0L1V1z1m161j153y/ClouDrop%206%20Aug%202015%2015%3A44%3A16%206%20Aug%202015%2015%3A44%3A16.png

interesting timing on that drop there around 2007, I wonder if any confounding factors could have caused it

http://i.imgur.com/dKoBZl7.png

MORE VINYL IS BACK THINKPIECES WE NEED MORE VINYL IS BACK THINKPIECES

That slope is probably an inverse curve of piratebay traffic numbers.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/history-pirate-bay-will-return/

I dunno, that chart is saying CDs were outselling cassettes as early as 1985. That can't be right, since CDs were still twice as expensive, and players were REALLY expensive (and not nearly as ubiquitous as cassette players).

I don't think you're reading that graph right. Looks more like around 92-93.

the height of curves in that chart is cumulative, so in 1985 CDs are the tiny light blue segment on top of an even split between cassettes and vinyl.

I'm thinking that as digital music gets sorted out and services gradually up their price and ad rates, it will get to about where the early 80's collapse was, and flatline there, 8.5 billion. No more Saturday Night Fever or format change anomalies.

most people i've met who make music for a living (or are involved in the production of music, live or recorded) pulled themselves up by their bootstraps

man, feel old saying this, but "what are the trends with the young people" in regards to purchasing digital music/subscribing to streaming services vs. just downloading it somewhere or going to youtube? my guess is that anyone who came of age after early 2000s is pretty used to easily getting what they want for free at this point. might be hard to ever get them back to the idea of paying for it on a regular basis.

for my kids it's all youtube. they're happily amazed when I provide them with mp3s they want but it's totally unnecessary for them

when I was my oldest's age I was already scamming/being scammed by BMG/Columbia House. those were different times...

I don't think you're reading that graph right. Looks more like around 92-93.

― schwantz, Thursday, August 6, 2015 4:30 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the height of curves in that chart is cumulative, so in 1985 CDs are the tiny light blue segment on top of an even split between cassettes and vinyl.

― juggulo for the complete klvtz (bendy), Thursday, August 6, 2015 4:33 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OK, yeah, that definitely makes more sense.

for my kids it's all youtube. they're happily amazed when I provide them with mp3s they want but it's totally unnecessary for them

― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, August 6, 2015 4:48 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

My dad has a pekingese and I don't think he even cares about music at all!

does he like pugs?

my mother in law is thinking about getting a pug. she just got an iphone too! don't know what her position on streaming music is.

your moms like my pug

That graph is fascinating -- I hadn't realized that there had been a brief period where CDs' dominance meant massively more spending than ever before on recorded music.

Also interesting that CDs are still well ahead of streaming, though probably not for much longer

i mean it is crazy - someone was just talking on twitter about how almost 15 million people paid between $12-$16 for hootie and the blowfish's first album.

Great interview with a Columbia House insider about that 90s CD $$$$ heydays

http://www.avclub.com/article/four-columbia-house-insiders-explain-shady-math-be-219964

stop telling me how to think, and how to feel. there is too much second-person directive since the beatles broke

with a love like that, you know you should be glad

yeah yeah yeah

you've hypnotized me with those crazy eyes of yours
you've cracked me open like a coconut
you've got me crawling round and round you on all fours

yes yes yes yes yes

you are inside a building, a well house for a large streaming

watch out
you might get what you're after

A Kiwi perspective, Russell Brown is pretty otm as usual

http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/friday-music-not-just-consumers-but-patrons/

I always use Bandcamp if I can. Monetarily for small artists, the margin between streaming and piracy seems so tiny as to be negligible. I was surprised that it took so long for Apple to encroach onto Spotify's turf (streaming). Is there any sign that Spotify will retaliate by offering paid downloads?

Actually, to complicate what I wrote above a bit — it may the case that the rise of streaming has led to a rise of “blockbuster culture” at theaters

This book is six years old and predates much of the handwringing over streaming, but the beginning of blockbuster culture is already in place: 360 deals, winners take all, the Long Tail as entertainment balkanization, etc. etc.

Here's a recent (and long) article which also crunches some numbers:

...there’s a widespread claim that ticket sales have declined because Hollywood’s obsessive focus on sequels, franchises, blockbusters and IP (“SFBIP”) has led many people to stop going to theaters altogether. In fact, the segment of the population that doesn’t attend “the movies” has been unchanged since 2002 at one in four, and a greater share of the population goes to the theater today than at any time between 2009 and 2017.

Nearly all the decline in theatrical consumption has instead come from a reduction in the frequency of attendance by the most intense moviegoers. This reiterates the idea of secular decline; those who loved the product most, love it less each year. (...)

The explanations for this are simple. Over the past 40 years, viewers have added more high-quality screens and sound systems in their homes, the quality of television content has improved, the ability to access this content (e.g. ad free and on demand) has improved, and bigger (and more social) alternative entertainment experiences have emerged, such as Call of Duty and Fortnite. This is similar to the first secular decline of theatrical attendance. Before household TVs emerged, audiences attended the theater 40-70 times per year – after all, it was the only way to watch video news (attendance peaked during World War II). As families added more TVs to their homes (thus allowing family members to individually watch), consumption dropped.

Today, movies earn their keep by displaying content that is best able to defeat at-home consumption and alternatives – to persuade audiences to turn off Netflix, get in their cars, drive to a movie theater with convenient showtimes and available seats, park, buy $10 tickets, sit through 10 minutes of commercials and 20 minutes of trailers as the adjacent seats fill up with strangers, watch the film for 150 minutes while holding off the restroom, then drive home. The only way studios can reliably do this is by offering a spectacle that simply needs to be seen on a big screen (Avengers: Endgame) or has such cultural relevance you can’t wait until the home video release to catch up (Us, or again, Avengers: Endgame). It doesn’t seem to matter if a film like Booksmart is terrific (it is), widely available and evangelized. The role of the movie theater has changed.

HoC going to take this up:

Streaming has changed the music industry - but do the economics of music streaming work for everyone?

We're launching an inquiry into the economics of music streaming today and want to hear from you.

Find out more and submit evidence here: https://t.co/tj3lUEVnZ2 pic.twitter.com/7fov9s99of

— Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee (@CommonsDCMS) October 15, 2020

forgot about this thread.

so did we get this sordid

This sounds like a cool idea: https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/inside-the-fight-to-fix-economic-inequality-in-dj-culture/