Take a Sad Song and Extract Every Last Ounce of Spontaneity from It: the Beatles Uber-Ballad Poll

Ringo also came up with the "darning his socks" bit in "Eleanor Rigby.

Recent remarks on George's songwriting, on publishing, starting at 36:04.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owP_32EIoXE

I'm interested in the "What is songwriting?" topic but this may not be the place for it. Not sure I can go as far as Tarfumes T.E.G. - though I greatly respect the inherit ethics in this view. Certainly, Coltrane et al. are composing their solos over the bones of the R&H song. No one who cares about Coltrane would understand it any other way.

I do fear it leads to a reductio ad absurdification stance, whereby a hired percussionist who hits a triangle on 16th notes instead of 8th notes for one and a half measures is as much a composer as Mozart. Or somebody who walks by the studio and says, "You know what this needs? Cowbell." Or a person who makes a slight editorial suggestion like, "Hey John, perhaps you should consider 'it's easy if you try' instead of 'it's easy if you attempt it' here."

I'm a drummer myself, and wouldn't naturally expect praise or credit or extra payment for standard patterns that are off-the-shelf, so to speak. It would be silly to refuse to play anything until the songwriter had "written" that I should play the kick on 1, 2, 3, and 4, snare on 2 and 4, eighth notes on the hat, etc. Of course I'd appreciate credit for an innovative/unique part. But then it becomes subjective as to what level of complexity constitutes composition.

At the same time, if person A writes a reasonably complete song - chords, lyrics, melody, riff, key, feel, tempo, instrumentation - and then the band's bassist chooses to play 1, 5, 1, 5 (instead of 1, 1, 1, 1) for a few measures, I'm not quite ready to say that constitutes composing on the same level as doing the creative and emotional labor of coming up with the foundational ideas in the first place.

not sure if it's said already but i was led to believe songwriting credits go to the person who writes the lyrics and the topline melody. so even if you come up with an iconic beat or bassline, you won't get credit for it in regular circumstances.

They go to whoever, basically.

There's a Fad Gadget song that has a "Robert Gotobed" credit as a thanks for the work he did, drummingwise, on the whole album.

Also, "Land of 1000 dances" has Fats Domino on the credits even when the song is only being sampled for the "Nah nanana nah" bit which wasn't on the original. And he was only added to make him record it.

Or a person who makes a slight editorial suggestion like, "Hey John, perhaps you should consider 'it's easy if you try' instead of 'it's easy if you attempt it' here."

Ha, supposedly Lennon's only contribution to "Hey Jude" was telling Paul to leave in the line "the movement you need is on your shoulder" (Paul wanted to rewrite it).

At the same time, if person A writes a reasonably complete song - chords, lyrics, melody, riff, key, feel, tempo, instrumentation - and then the band's bassist chooses to play 1, 5, 1, 5 (instead of 1, 1, 1, 1) for a few measures, I'm not quite ready to say that constitutes composing on the same level as doing the creative and emotional labor of coming up with the foundational ideas in the first place.

Yeah, it's like, the organ part of "Whiter Shade of Pale" defines the song as much as the lyrics and topline melody. There's a reason the organist sued for credit while, say, the bassist didn't:

On 30 July 2009 the Law Lords unanimously ruled in Fisher's favour. They noted that the delay in bringing the case had not caused any harm to the other party; on the contrary they had benefited financially from it. They also pointed out that there were no time limits to copyright claims under English law. The right to future royalties was therefore returned to Fisher.[38][39] The musicological basis of the judgment, and its effect on the rights of musicians who contribute composition to future works, has drawn some attention in the music world. It has shown that someone who composes a "signature" part for an otherwise complete song could indeed be credited as a co-writer.[40]

yeah there are no rules. jagger/richards could have credited jones, wyman, taylor, etc.
they just decided no to.

errr... the melody of the organ part of "whiter shades of pale" is by JS Bach !

(well inspired by...)

Jagger/Richards should have credited Wyman on 'Jumpin' Jack Flash', I think.

Jagger-Richards not crediting Taylor for "Sway" or "Moonlight Mile" is rank bullshit.

I think that financial aspects put aside, the jagger/richards, lennon/mccartney just thought it was cooler if all the tracks had this signature even when someone else had an input or when the song was solely by one of them.

one of the examples of the subjective aspect of the songwriting credits is the aforementioned "Give Peace a Chance" which was credited lennon/mccartney although the latter had nothing to do with it.

the (bowel) movement you need is on your shoulder

are you expecting a songwriting credit ?

<<I'm a drummer myself, and wouldn't naturally expect praise or credit or extra payment for standard patterns that are off-the-shelf, so to speak.>>

not sure why you deserve any less (or more) credit than the guitarist who comes up with off-the-shelf I-IV-V chord changes.

<I think that financial aspects put aside, the jagger/richards, lennon/mccartney just thought it was cooler if all the tracks had this signature even when someone else had an input or when the song was solely by one of them.>>

i'm sure jagger, richards, lennon and mccartney all thought it was cool indeed. taylor, wyman, harrison, etc., might not feel the same way, obviously. songwriting credits in pop music are ENTIRELY a financial decision.

fcc otm

As I say,the credit on the song does not necessarily relate to who gets paid what.

Jagger-Richards not crediting Taylor for "Sway" or "Moonlight Mile" is rank bullshit.

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, June 19, 2015 2:58 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and 'Time Waits For No One', too.

I learned a piano chord I didn't know before from TLAWR, so it gets pass marks from me.
― The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, June 17, 2015 7:50 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink