thread of miguel

also much love to kurupt for dropping the first "Lee Iacocca" reference in like 25 years XD

i wouldn't say he's disinterested in radio play but there's a noticeable lack of a "how many drinks"-style "well lemme make sure i have a surefire reliable single in my back pocket" on this album

Not heard this album really but "R&B" can encapsulate a hell of a lot and forays into stadium rock are definitely part of that.

Like at this point in history I would *much* rather hear R&B artists exploring rock music than the other way round.

who will be the Eddie Van Halen on Miguel's "Beat It"?

.....Bonnamassa

Hearing a lot more obvious nods to Prince on some of these, especially with the more guitar-centric arrangements and production. Feels like it was supposed to be Prince soloing on "Face The Sun" especially, but he proved to difficult to get and so he settled for...Lenny Kravitz. Or maybe he just loves Lenny Kravitz.

i'm not sure you can even call him an r&b singer at this point

I agree he's uncomfortable with being an R&B artist

it's fair to say that neither are interested in getting radio play in any genre

A lot of assumptions being made about R&B as a genre and R&B listeners in these comments. Only heard half the album, but nothing in that feels far enough outside the lineage of R&B to justify these statements.

Like at this point in history I would *much* rather hear R&B artists exploring rock music than the other way round.

speaking of this record pairs nicely with the new daniel johns which is better than it should be

Gonna get shit for saying this, but I get shit on ILX no matter what, so...

After all the talk above about how he objectifies himself and how refreshing that is etc. etc.

Are we really OK, in 2015, with faceless black women used as a piece of furniture?

I know he's trying to go for "80s hair metal rock star" or whatever, but couldn't "naked faceless women as furniture" be a trope left in the 80s?

I have not heard this Daniel Johns record, but object strongly to any reference to him in the Miguel thread.

lol

not if brad is repping for it

I know he's trying to go for "80s hair metal rock star" or whatever, but couldn't "naked faceless women as furniture" be a trope left in the 80s?

Please look at (very) many r&b/funk covers from the late 60s/all through the 70s. Maybe it's a trope, but it's not hijacked from hair metal.

Grace Jones often made herself a semi-nude faceless woman as furniture.

Do I really have to explain to you that there's a vast conceptual difference between presenting yourself as an object, and using someone else as an object?

we could ask the author of "Use Me."

this is a guy whose last album included a track called "pussy is mine" (admittedly the worst cut on the album), don't think there's too much argument that he is not exactly a shining spotlight of progressivism

lol it's funny to me how often people misread that song

that song is not about possession but instead entirely about male inadequacy

what, you mean that he's not claiming ownership but is basically broadcasting his insecurity? i get it, it's still a dopey track.

xp obv

anyway, you want to make a case for a feminist reading of miguel's lyric sheet/iconography jordan, go for it.

give me pound give me pound give me euro give me yen

i don't know if i would say that his lyrics are feminist, but there are certainly feminist sentiments, or at least a number of instances in which the woman is presented as holding the power outside of the context of objectivity. i think in the context of mainstream male pop music his music is more feminist than most.

i certainly think his portrayal of sex from a male perspective is progressive, as alfred noted in referencing "use me"

and we've spent the last month gawking at album art in which he positions himself as an available object of desire. This doesn't mitigate any legit complaints about his songs and imagery, though; understanding him is complicated.

if you're arguing that comparatively his work is less explicitly sexist than most charting r&b, mmmmmaybe? like imo he's obv more progressive than usher but maybe not notably more so than ne-yo (storytime aside)

"I don't mind" is more explicitly feminist than anything Miguel has ever done

this is a good conversation

my thoughts on other things recently mentioned itt are conflicted/underdeveloped/dumb and not worth mentioning, but

"pussy is mine" (admittedly the worst cut on the album)

this is not true

pussy is mine is dope

what track on kaleidoscope dream do you like less than PiM

pussy is mine is dope AND the worst cut on the album

yeah fair point

was looking at tracklist on wiki to see if i really believe that and ran into

Alfred Soto of The Quietus was pleasantly surprised by "the range of sonic ideas, fully realized songs, and prodigious vocal talent" by Miguel after a "tentative" debut and commented that he "articulates how a love man can be louche without being a douche."[23]

louche douche truths

and hey i didn't even notice until just now but going to hell / flesh / hollywood dreams / nwa / face the sun are now up on spotify:
http://open.spotify.com/user/forksclovetofu/playlist/25ZKsgl9VGDh756EgyINIg
/pvmic

"I don't mind" is more explicitly feminist than anything Miguel has ever done

― k3vin k., Wednesday, 17 June 2015 18:37 Bookmark

lol clearly it is not

'i don't mind' is an assertion of power thru ostentatiously demonstrating its easy relinquishment; it's more affectionate but ultimately cut from similar cloth to the ~playful~ backhanded empowerment some claimed of the blurred lines video

miguel otoh always deploys his supposedly/ostensibly dogeared cliches with a laser focused attentiveness, calculated degrees of signalled sleaze in aid of a carnality born of genuine mutuality; he plays sub and dom so well because he so appreciates the rules, the balance; absolutely he is a feminist

louche douche truths

― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu),

*bows* MY solo album.

miguel otoh always deploys his supposedly/ostensibly dogeared cliches with a laser focused attentiveness, calculated degrees of signalled sleaze in aid of a carnality born of genuine mutuality

This sounds right. Above all the guys in his songs are so into pleasure as a principle that they're willing to be courtly and have manners about it.

'candles in the sun' is so obv the worst kd kut come on

whereas The Weeknd casts a withering glare on the women he fucks; uses his self-loathing, which is really loathing of any women who would yield to him, as a come-on; and hates himself and her for it. But don't worry -- she's earned it. Repeat cycle.

that song is not about possession but instead entirely about male inadequacy

― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 17 June 2015 18:02 Bookmark

otm btw

candles in the sun is loose and a bit boring; pussy is mine is a hear-it-once-then-dispose demo
tbh i generally stop after arch and point so i'm not gonna argue too vehemently

I generally stop after "Arch N Point" -- what a way to go.

"Candles in the Sun" is the weakest track. Wish he'd subbed it with "...All."

havent heard this yet because 4ever unsullied obv but it already seems clear to me that j0rd's take repeats his earlier privileging of the idea of effervescence as not something subjectively preferential but essential to migs persona heretofore, and worse tries to grace the point by disingenously equating that efferv (i cannot write this word out again sorry) with r&b as a whole, vs a deeper/heavier/scuzzier/other-er rock. i don't agree with this reading, it just seems cosmetic. u wouldnt hear it for maxwell or d'angelo

I like Candles in the Sun but it doesn't feel like a good album closer. I didn't actually realise it was the album closer until I got the vinyl. All works way better.

i seem to be the only person who thinks "candles in the sun" is great

just love his delivery on it

it's a great song!

I love the Art Dealer Chic "Candles," mostly only enjoy the album version as a reminder of it

yeah the album version of "candles in the sun" is a throwaway