Young Thug thread

this has been a constant stream w/ 'ratchet' rap music where folks sell lyrics short bc they dont understand them...he is a great lyricist.

Not like dude always makes it all that easy to understand him though

idk how saying "i love his lyrics" sell them short though? only 'negative' thing i said was in clarifying my statement that while he's now ~~officially~~ my all-time favorite rap vocalist, i.e., while i appreciate the sound of his voice and what he does with it more than any other rapper i've heard (certainly more than other vocal stylists like future or 2009 lil wayne), i would probably go with someone else for all-time best rap lyricist (i'm guessing you would too) despite loving his lyrics and how they work for him. you've chided twice now but i've agreed from the outset, he's a very good lyricist

the finished jamie xx collab is pretty great, though i liked the simplicity of the leak too. definite summer jam either way

just wanna say i definitely prefer the demo of Good Times to the official version. Popcaan is superfluous and detracts from the soul sample. And starting with the stroller line was the way to go

also the thugger feature on the new boosie badazz tape is great. tape in general is really good too.

YT's vocals are also more in front of the mix in the demo version

Ok well now I'm offended u think young thug is the ALL TIME GREATEST RAP VOCALIST

I like popcaan's part more than thugs

That song is alright but I'm getting definite "shine blockers" vibes from ppl latching onto that of all thug records

I think thug is a pretty singular talent and it's a pretty iffy time for popular rap but god damn if folks aren't gonna work out a way to overrate him anyway

my all-time favorite; not all-time greatest, necessarily (i.e. exact reason i bothered to make the distinction you were keen on policing in the first place)

he def uses his voice in a more interesting, developed way than 1) anyone else doing the new-ish rap vocal stylist thing 2) your standard rapper who, great flow and vocal character and all, is mostly just concerned with getting the words out with some performative emotion. who else is even a contender? cannot think of any other rapper who's iterated their way to such an expressive use of melody, texture, adlibs etc all integrated into such a holistic and singular approach. precursors/peers like t-pain, future, 808s kanye, and thug's beloved '09 wayne all have done effective things in the same general field but none of them have ever been close to where thug's taken it.

aaaand "shine blockas" is a masterpiece :)

Examples from the past couple of years ? Gucci, Wayne, Chief keef, future, max b, jacka, Kevin gates, all do those things in different ways. No they haven't taken it where thug has, but he hasn't taken it where they have. He is not the sole rap innovator in this field, and these kinds of exceptionalism arguments are a cornerstone of corny fuxx rap criticism

And shine blockers isn't in the top 100 Gucci records

I'm sure there are other formal rap innovators I'm forgetting at the moment.

yes, and i have heard them. and i have heard thug. and i prefer him. (i would actually argue that his take on "those things" are pretty obviously the most developed of the lot, but hey: let's not.) this isn't rap criticism btw, this is a message board...

by "definite 'shine blockaz' vibes" i figured you meant big boi not guwop, but that song is def in the top 100 of most categories you could place it in

i do mean big boi but it was treated at the time as a guwop breakthrough record bc he rapped on a soul sample

i do not think thug is the best formal innovator of those artists; if anything, it feels like in some ways he's just recently found his footing; he definitely hasn't traveled *as far* as Wayne, say, even if he's built upon what he did. In terms of the emotional content of the records, I think future & keef are both several steps ahead of him; in terms of melodic acrobatics, i could see an argument for him being the most versatile with his new rap language in that group—but that's just one dimension, and in other realms those guys have him beat...

cannot think of any other rapper who's iterated their way to such an expressive use of melody, texture, adlibs etc all integrated into such a holistic and singular approach.

like literally every person i mentioned has done all of these things. which one doesn't expressively incorporate melody, texture, adlibs into a holistic and singular approach?

gucci was a lil late on melody, i suppose, which he of course made up for with insanely vivid writing

he definitely hasn't traveled *as far* as Wayne, say, even if he's built upon what he did.

so you're curving for effort? there's nothing i disagree w/ in this statement, as thug himself will admit he wouldn't exist w/o that dimension of wayne's influence...but someone taking the baton and running it to its logical conclusion is much preferable to leaving the baton where the last guy sputtered and fell. wayne may have taken it 70%, but thug is sounding pretty close to 100 at this point. (and i mean, we aren't even talking t-pain, but if you wanna talk effort and influence you could say the same thing t-pain:wayne that you're saying wayne:thug) curious to see if he can evolve it further but there is certainly nothing left in his approach that needs improvement.

like literally every person i mentioned has done all of these things. which one doesn't expressively incorporate melody, texture, adlibs into a holistic and singular approach?

are you even reading me tho? "to such an expressive use of." i'm not denying the other guys each do at least some of these things -- i mentioned a few of them before you did, even (though i find where keef goes w/ it to be really different, and ugly in an on-purpose way that nonetheless doesn't feel particularly developed or compelling to me) -- i'm simply saying thug does it by far the best of anyone so far, certainly in terms of fluid integration and expression. just listen to everything he's putting into something like "just might be" or the slow burn and build of "givenchy" (or my first real eureka moment with him, in the way he's basically doing exclamatory drum fills with his adlibs during the b-chorus of "about the money"), it's insane and if you have any specific examples of these others guys doing what they do in such a total and sophisticated way i'd happily check/revisit them. even if i agree on an individual song level once or twice i doubt there're any counterpoints that'd make me feel like some philistine for having said he's my favorite in the field :)

i do mean big boi but it was treated at the time as a guwop breakthrough record bc he rapped on a soul sample

cool. sounds great

gucci was a lil late on melody, i suppose, which he of course made up for with insanely vivid writing

yeah idk if you can even really say he qualifies for this convo as weird as he's been in other ways, though "insanely vivid writing" would go under the separate rap-vocalist-vs.-rap-rapper category that got you rankled about my thug opinion in the first place: lyrics

(to reiterate in advance: i still think thug is a great lyricist. thank you)

so you're curving for effort?

...? no effort has nothing to do w/ it. i'm talking about distance travelled. and lil wayne's use of melodies in rap is not rlly like t-pain the way thug is like wayne

yeah idk if you can even really say he qualifies for this convo as weird as he's been in other ways, though "insanely vivid writing" would go under the separate rap-vocalist-vs.-rap-rapper category that got you rankled about my thug opinion in the first place: lyrics

how about bc he invented the adlib game u seem to credit thug with

it's insane and if you have any specific examples of these others guys doing what they do in such a total and sophisticated way i'd happily check/revisit them.

the entire careers of every artist mentioned do this in a total & sophisticated way.

i dont understand why you're so invested in contending that he's so many leagues ahead of the rest of rap & then all the characteristics you use to differentiate him are as true of many other current artists. obv i dont care / cant argue with "but he's just my personal favorite' but then why are u invested in establishing how no one is doing it in as 'total and sophisticated' of a manner as he is?

im actually quite looking forward to the moment when he starts to really stretch out in terms of emotional breadth—feel like both keef&future have gone quite a bit further in that department than he has, 'od' and 'numbers' kind of hint at it but are still fairly detached.

jfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUvy-n3c3Ro

http://imgur.com/a/3oMcc

the only album i have on my ipad is 'finally rich'. when i take a plane i listen to it on repeat & play sim city. never failed me so far.

as usual, thread is turning into rap top trumps

@d-40 idk why you insist i'm saying he's the originator of any of these techniques. "best" ≠ "first," "distance traveled" ≠ "best" (and imo if you want to talk emotional breadth w/ thug i'd think "just might be" would be first up)

@tpp this too shall pass

@shirt people here are super into my lastfm! unfortunately does not represent the entirety of my listening experience, but A+ for weird effort

wow shirt with mb the creepiest post in ilx history

idk why you insist i'm saying he's the originator of any of these techniques.

i'm not. i'm saying he's at the beginning of a career & acting like he's surpassed artists with lengthier catalogs & more fully-flesh careers is ridiculous

(and imo if you want to talk emotional breadth w/ thug i'd think "just might be" would be first up)

you're confusing 'breadth' and 'depth'—i'm not talking about any individual song, but the array of moods & styles available to him.

you really like to talk in prescriptive absolutes about other people's opinions :) yes, "just might be" is probably the deepest too, but i'm saying it shows the most emotional breadth of any of his songs, both within itself (it's got the perfect balance of the elusive "triumphant sad" vibe – built around a minor key choral bed and yet beginning with the insistence, "living life bro, i'm happy," and expanding from there), and within his discog (i.e., breaking new expressive ground for him).

u two both need a breadth mint

young thug

http://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/469/1*PVWmkv2zOg5kH_rrMcB-9Q.jpeg

https://thenib.com/the-highgate-county-fancy-chicken-show-637382c60de1

trying and failing to read past the first four panels of that is probably how me & d-40's rap opinions hackathon has felt for the rest of you

instead of 'breadth' lets say 'range' bc you're clearly not understanding me—i'm talking about the emotional range—emotional diversity—of his catalog

which is good, but thus far still in the shadows of artists who had a few years head start on him

"you're clearly not understanding me" either b/c that's "clearly" what i mean. lunch break?

you really like to talk in prescriptive absolutes about other people's opinions

tbf you articulate your opinions as if they're prescriptive absolutes

ain't prescribing nothing! i simply said young thug has recently become my favorite rap vocalist, then contended why that's not a take that merits condescension. as for opinions stated as absolutes, that's most of ilx (you included 'tbf')

it is a take that merits condescension bc you stated your preference in stark relief to the rest of rap music, and belittled it for not doing what it evidently already does

the way you double back on "it's just my opinion man" when anyone disagrees with you is really silly, you're on a message board full of opinions about music, discussion and contention of personal opinions happen. it's just your opinions tend to reveal your shallow engagement with the music

@d-40 for someone who prattles on so much about how i don't "get" what you're saying, you continue to misapprehend the baseline implication of my stated preference. who, among anyone you have mentioned or otherwise, combines all these different techniques (which are as generally commonplace to rap, by this point, as guitar leads or non-lyrical vocal interjections are to rock) to an end effect similar to young thug? again, i'm not saying he invented anything other than the delicate balance of ratios he's found for himself in the past year or so. yes, in a much more restrained way, gucci did the adlib thing (even the "skurr skurr skurr") years before thug, and yes, lil wayne arguably "traveled greater distance" than thug has in getting from tha block to "can't believe it." but the end effect of gucci's vocal performances is leagues removed from what thug's doing, and you could say that about any of your "counterpoints" (to a point i never made). it's like someone saying ian curtis is their favorite rock vocalist, and you use it as an opportunity to soapbox about elvis. future or wayne of five years ago is probably the most stylistically proximal of the lot, but it's still not even close.

@bradnelson you're going to have to make it about young thug if you wanna repeatedly come at me ad hominem in a thread about young thug. what's so shallow about my engagement w/ the music? i would guess i've listened to at least comparable amounts of what's pertinent here as you have (though feel free to prove otherwise), and can guarantee far greater engagement/comprehension on the one other topic on which i've seemed to bother you (k-pop, for the folks following along at home). though i would have to doubt that's as significant to this discussion as you seem to think it is, given d-40 has prob listened to more rap than me but seems to be making widely off-base conclusions about big-picture musical fundamentals at least in regards to belittling my perspective :)

also both here and w/r/t k-pop the point has never been "it's just my opinion man," rather "it's not a ridiculous opinion." some opinions are. :D

@deej: is there anything at all, in your opinion, that young thug does better than keef, future, gucci or wayne? If so, what and how? Thanks in advance.

@deej: plz dont answer that^, thank you

anyone else digging spaghetti factory? love how metro boomin's beat is so carnivalesque and allows thugger's "i want your spaghetti / i'm bleeding like freddy" line to feel sinister. and it works super well after that low-register vocalizing in the first verse. apparently the song is just called 'spaghetti' but the person who uploaded it added factory as a joke, which i frankly find hilarious

@deej: is there anything at all, in your opinion, that young thug does better than keef, future, gucci or wayne? If so, what and how? Thanks in advance.

― longneck, Wednesday, May 27, 2015 3:24 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't even understand this question or why u think I'm shitting on thug. Barter is one of the best tapes of the year

probably a ref to the restaurant no? xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lckq3SbUUW0

he def uses his voice in a more interesting, developed way than 1) anyone else doing the new-ish rap vocal stylist thing 2) your standard rapper who, great flow and vocal character and all, is mostly just concerned with getting the words out with some performative emotion. who else is even a contender? cannot think of any other rapper who's iterated their way to such an expressive use of melody, texture, adlibs etc all integrated into such a holistic and singular approach.

@ soyrev this is the quote I disagreed with which is saying something difft than your regiment now

ooh just found out Hey I and Proud of Me are out in the public. the former was teased on his instagram a while ago and is super sweet :')
the latter is just super catchy, def up there with In This Game as one of the most poppy unreleased tracks from the past half year or so.