Van Morrison: your views please

anyway style IS substance. dude.

yeah, you would believe that sort of twaddle. Le Roy Neiman has a lot of "style," how do you feel about him? (here comes the lecture) I hope you wear a beret when you type out these missives. And one earring. No, that wouldn't go with the short pants and riding crop.

intelligent discussion may now resume.

I've been totally gaying out on Van lately. Saw the last waltz again and it really hit me how fucking BIZARRE the man is...such strange mannerisms onstage, so "passionate" but yet seems sort of bitter and hateful and totally uncaring about the crowd...

but so anyway yesterday I picked up "It's too late to stop now" a live album with his band, the Caledonia Soul Orchestra...honestly I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded...every song is retooled, rearranged...huge band, strings + horns + a core of a whoop-ass RnB band and rhythm secion....Van is all over the fucking place on this....slurring everything into a million fake endings and rave up WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP rhythm section hits...tuuurn on yuuuuur raDIO blooblobleeebledeeedlebloooombabloooobeeeedoodbeee..urrrrrnnnnn letcha lights shaaane....lettttit shine...

the fourth side "Heres Comes the night"---->gloria----->caravan----->cypress avenue is amazing...i think it's about five minutes before cypress is even close to being recognizable....

yeah that last waltz performance is strange, right? he's definitely got a weird mix of wanting to be this classic entertainer type and then also just having a "fuck you" attitude. it works! the jumpsuit, on the other hand ...

there's a beyond-fantastic bootleg from a 1972 live radio session that has some incredible van moments -- a definitive "Friday's Child," a beautiful "into the mystic" and an incredible reading of dylan's "just like a woman." that thing deserves official release, seriously. it's a peak.

as much as i like van, i haven't delved very deeply into his post-mid 70s stuff. but it seems as though there's plenty of worthwhile albums/songs ...

As much as I love "Caravan" from TLW, I love his vocal on "Tura Lura Lura" even more. God I wish there was an outtake of that floating somewhere.

He's complete crap, of course.

Wrong, Alex. The man could do the neatest codas.

If you enjoy listening to walruses gargle with their own filth, then I suppose so.

Oh goodness, well, a gurgling walrus with beautiful strings behind him then.

i thought he was drunk/coked out of his mind in the last waltz?

i like van, but i'm only recently recovering from drastic overexposure some fifteen years ago.

I owe a drink to whoever posted that YouTube clip of him doing "Warm Love" on German TV in '74 onto a different Van thread.

Of all of the songs on my favorite Van Morrison album, I'm undecided as to whether my favorite song is "Ring Worm" or "Want a Danish".

boring old fart, self righteous too.

It's interesting how many of the dismissive responses are based on not knowing his music in the first place. There also seems to be a sense of pride in that. Not sure why. I've worked in places where I've had to listen to Frankie Valli to the point where I've wanted his music vanquished from existence, but unless your uncle tortured you as a small child with a replay of his most obvious hits I've never considered Van to generate such snap judgement hate.

Now, granted, from everything I've read and heard from others much more in tune with the music business, Van looks to be a pretty difficult, cantankerous a-hole, which doesn't even put him in rarified company. Yes, he's been making pretty much the same album for years. If you like that sort of thing, it's not so bad. And he has been at it for decades.

But if you're going to judge the man, at least hear some of his best work. I wouldn't go judging the entire career of the Cure based on "Wish"...

While every Van fan I've met has different personal faves, I'd offer up the obvious: anything by Them, Astral Weeks, St. Dominic's Preview, Veedon Fleece, Wavelength (considered his most "commercial" album for its upbeat nature and slightly "slicker" production), Common One (if you think Van's a snoozer, then this will be your best evidence, but maybe I just like to daydream...), Into the Music, Beautiful Vision, Hymns to the Silence...

His radio hits only tell one very small part of the story. And he really doesn't fall into "hippie" music. He wore some bad hippie clothes back in the day.

For those who do like him, hopefully YouTube still has the video of him and Chet Baker doing Send in the Clowns. I'd only heard it on bootleg and imagined Van really biting into it, the way he phrases things and such...and then I saw this video. AND HE'S READING THE WORDS OFF A PIECE OF PAPER. Ah, the mastery of performance.

I'd submit a link but I'm new here and learning how to operate this formatting stuff. Hopefully, in time.

"Ring Worm" is totally better, for the "yooouuuu've got ring worm" near the end.

Oh, and Van's good. I love St. Dominic's Preview. Also "Snow in San Anselmo" is one of the coolest songs ever.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cxw98-SBhGo

While every Van fan I've met has different personal faves, I'd offer up the obvious: anything by Them, Astral Weeks, St. Dominic's Preview, Veedon Fleece...

all very solid, Astral Weeks being obvious, Veedon Fleece being the hidden grail, and I'd add Tupelo Honey and (god help me) Moondance. It'll never be my favorite, and it's way too exposed, but goddamnit if it's not a good record.

Alex, stop taking the piss and do something useful. We like Van Morrison, ok?

That two disc "Story of Them" set is amazing -- it's pretty much their full output as a band (with Van, but Them without Van is like VU without Lou), and it's very-good-to-legendary from end to end. I don't get tired of it.

i rebought astral weeks a couple days ago (traded it a few years back, then suddenly this week felt the overwhelming urge to hear it again), and what strikes me most about it is how . . . not like its reputation it is, in so many ways. like someone said upthread, for all the talk about van being a hippy-dippy mystic, most of the words are about very realistic scenes and situations.

it reminds me of talk talk's later work in some ways, that same contemplative mood, the way the old persona (the van of "gloria," the mark hollis of "it's my life") occasionally croaks through the new one, the way virtually any sound can take on meaning and depth. "slim slow slider" especially would fit in very well on laughing stock.

i also think the string arrangements are beautiful, almost unbelievably so, and i'm not really one to fawn over stuff like that.

i've got to get that them compilation. "gloria" is one of those overplayed classics that somehow never gets old; there's something so feral and almost unsettling about van's angry bark.

anyone heard blowin' your mind?

Here's the '74 German TV clip that Matos refers to:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=urpnB_5E4ro

Great fuckin' band; these must be the same guys that recorded the It's Too Late to Stop Now album with him. Aewsome!

"gloria" is one of those overplayed classics that somehow never gets old

tru, but "mystic eyes" > "gloria"

all I have to say about Van Morrison is that I bought Astral Weeks based solely on the strength of its reputation and the fact that I felt like I ought to have heard it -- one of those "eat your vegetables" record purchases -- and when I listened to it for the first time, it was so beautiful that I had no choice to duck out of work early, take a walk through the park, and call some people I hadn't talked to in months just to tell them about this incredible music.

(ps it's also my favorite album to listen to while high)

That Van and Chet clip is beautiful

He's complete crap, of course.
And Killing Joke are a bunch of candy-assed poseurs.

Alex, stop taking the piss and do something useful. We like Van Morrison, ok?

Who is taking the piss? I'm sincere. Van Morrison is a bloated tub of fatuous lard.

And Killing Joke are a bunch of candy-assed poseurs.

Compared to Van Morrison? Baahahahahahahaahahaha

Gifted musician - guitar, alto sax, harmonica....

Van Morrison is not a gifted alto sax player!

the end of this vers. of cypress avenue is fucking nuts! he's so weird...his mannerism onstage are fascinating to me...

honestly, sometimes the only guy that really reminds me of how van was onstage is Al Johnson from US Maple, sometimes i think he stole some of his bizarre schtick from Van...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=svgvIsbKL28&mode=related&search=

anyone heard blowin' your mind?

i just picked up the new vinyl reissue on Sundazed...it's good...it's definitely about exactly what you'd expect...some sort of middle ground between Them and astral weeks...a lot of it is just good solid RnB stuff...also brown eyed girl obv. and then the TB Sheets as well, which I guess his first weird art epic type thing....very odd song, almost stranger in it's way than Astral Weeks...I'd actually never heard it before and I expected something more similar to Astral Weeks but it's a lot different actually.

Van Morrison is a bloated tub of fatuous lard.
Well, there's no arguing there.

Bobby Gillespie: "Gie' us a smile Van, go on, yer face is aye trippin' ye. The 'Gers are daein' awright noo wi' Big Watty back at the helm - 'zat no' enough tae cheer ye up?"

i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever....yet he writes these really warm songs that are sort of intergenerational classics, it's odd....and onstage he has the whole kind of otis redding thing, real soul belting giving it all, etc, yet it doesn't seem warm, even during the big climaxes he doesn't seem to care about the crowd or trying to engage them, it's like he's got some personal little place he's trying to reach or something and fuck you if you don't get it.

this cypress is even better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHjUEvfzFY&NR=1

i find how assholish he apparently is part of the appeal, he seems like the least likeable major star like ever

Lou Reed?

yeah maybe lou is even worse. but van is a way bigger star i think for the average person.

True and less of a dick too

One man who would talk about Morrison was Ted Templeman, a Warner Bros. staff producer known for his work with the Doobie Brothers and Van Halen. In the early Seventies, Templeman produced three of Morrison's albums -- Tupelo Honey, St. Dominic's Preview, and It's Too Late to Stop Now -- and he was recently quoted in 'BAM', a regional music newspaper, as saying, "I'd never work with Van Morrison again as long as I live, even if he offered me $2 million in cash. I aged ten years producing three of his albums. He's a marvelous talent, a fantastic singer, but he's fired everyone who's ever worked with him -- all his producers, his managers, his attorneys. He's so unpredictable."

... this from a guy who worked with Beefheart!

and Eddie Van Halen!

I prefer strung-out, delirious Van to any other, so Veedon Fleece blows away all of his other albums. I can't think of another artist who has made albums I love and hate to such degrees as this guy.

i really really need to hear veedon fleece

Likewise. Anybody know if that's Ronnie Montrose on guitar in the 2nd "Cypress Ave." clip?

I've heard Veedom Fleece compared favorably to Astral Weeks, but I just don't hear it myself.

Glad to see the love for Veedon Fleece. It seems like when it came out, 1974, most people's attentions were elsewhere and the reviews didn't get it (well, the very few I've seen from back then). I don't think VF sounds like AW at all. But what they share is a certain free-floating, stream-of-consciousness. "Fair Play" is just two chords floating back and forth..."Bulbs" is the only real conventional pop tune (and the single), but "You Don't Pull No Punches" is that weird, improvisational nonsense that Van does so well -- and which he goes into overload on Common One, as "Summertime In England" has its fans and detractors. (Personally, I"m all for it, for I wouldn't use it to convert anyone.)

The THEM 2-CD does seem to collect everything except "Mighty Like A Rose," which can be found on Backtrackin', an LP collection of outtakes. Lester Bangs had mentioned how he'd had arguments with people about whether or not Van's early work was about pedophilia and obviously the 14 year old of "Cyprus Avenue" can be a bit creepy, but "Mighty" also discusses a girl of 14 summers...

As per age, I liked how Jagger dropped the girl from "Stray Cat BLues" from 15 to 13 on Ya-Ya's, something he wouldn't do today, I'm sure. And changed the woman in "Spider and the Fly" from 30 to 50 for the version on Stripped...and yet he's still WAY older...

and great clips on YouTube. thanks for the heads-up.

Veedon Fleece is impossible to find on CD, my copy is either on cassette or MP3, pretty sure you can find it on vinyl. I've heard mixed reactions, some people think it's not strong because it's not as jazz-inflected as Astral Weeks, it's much more of a spare folk album (although the baseball imagery on "Bulbs," matched to some corny upbeat hoo ha, is plain bizarre on an album that's by and large about depression and insanity.) I gave it to a good friend of mine when a close family member of his died and it turned into his favorite album.

Also, "Linden Arden Stole the Highlights" = best Van Morrison song by a long shot.

and

First verse of "Fair Play," 1st song on Veedon Fleece:

Fair play to you
Killarney's lakes are so blue
And the architecture I'm taking in with my mind
So fine...

Not sure if there's an opening verse quite as mentally unsound and yet devastatingly gorgeous as that one.

i just picked up the new vinyl reissue on Sundazed...it's good...it's definitely about exactly what you'd expect...some sort of middle ground between Them and astral weeks...a lot of it is just good solid RnB stuff...also brown eyed girl obv. and then the TB Sheets as well, which I guess his first weird art epic type thing....very odd song, almost stranger in it's way than Astral Weeks...I'd actually never heard it before and I expected something more similar to Astral Weeks but it's a lot different actually.

Like 3rd/ Sisters Lovers, Blowin' yr Mind/ TB sheets has suffered from multiple versions and no set track listing; and the Blowin' yr Mind version misses the early RnB version of Madame George, which, in some moods i prefer to the AW one.