Does Doom and associated heroes remember the original secret war and battle world? I keep waiting for Doom to be like "oh this is all very familiar."
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 16:56 (nine years ago) link
Yup, they referred to the "Beyonder" of the Secret Wars being kind of an infant version of the multiversal Beyonders of this
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:10 (nine years ago) link
where is that mentioned, do you remember?
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 18:11 (nine years ago) link
i read the original secret wars recently and it's amazing how in one issue the new secret wars has developed the place 'battleworld' more than i remember any issue of the original (which did include that one village w/ the healer, and iirc spider-woman from an alternate dimension detroit or something?, but not much more besides the different hero/villain bases)
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 18:12 (nine years ago) link
I appreciate your point, but besting a Jim Shooter-scripted action figure commercial is probably the least I could've asked of Hickman.
― Ape Pagoda (Old Lunch), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:19 (nine years ago) link
Mordy, I'm poking around on the web since I'm not at home, but I believe when Hank Pym comes back in the Avengers titles after traveling around the multiverse looking for answers about the incursions he finds this out
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:24 (nine years ago) link
New Avengers #30
"I could tell you about the child unit from the secret wars, visually modified to mimic what it perceived.."
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:29 (nine years ago) link
thx
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 18:29 (nine years ago) link
I'm guessing Doom and Strange are the original 616 versions. And whether or not they remember the old universe is one of the mysteries to be solved in a future issue.
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 15 May 2015 18:31 (nine years ago) link
It's also where they revealed the "Ivory Kings" are the Beyonders.
They assumed Pym would eventually track down Rabum Alal since they thought he was responsible for things ending, but (and this is the part I had to read a couple times to catch) they had been misled by their Black Swan and her version of what the Black Swans were there to do. Originally they just went around killing Molecule Man, but their apostates started getting involved with the incursions and kind of unknowingly following the Beyonders around.
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:31 (nine years ago) link
That Strange does not at all look like the 616 strange and he refers to Agamotto in a weird way
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:32 (nine years ago) link
Could be artist's license. I guess we'll find out! For the first time I've removed a bunch of comics blogs from my RSS so I don't get spoiled three months early. (And also because they are a terrible waste of my life.)
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 15 May 2015 18:37 (nine years ago) link
I think it was intentionally vague so that it could be revisited, but does anyone have any idea what Doom's anti-Beyonders weapon was? It kind of looked like a stack of his time platforms
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 18:41 (nine years ago) link
not NA #30 i don't think which is luke cage, daredevil + emma frost chatting and ends w/ cage quitting the avengers
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 18:44 (nine years ago) link
New Avengers (2013) versionhttps://www.comixology.com/New-Avengers-2013-2015-30/digital-comic/192837
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:09 (nine years ago) link
geez Mordy, I just retyped the dialogue from it, you would think I knew what issue I was reading :)
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:10 (nine years ago) link
lol ok fair enough. first i read the new avengers 30 from 2007 and that wasn't it and then i was like oh it must be a newer one so i found the new avengers 30 from 2012 and i thought that must be the newest one but nope! a more recent #30 apparently
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 19:13 (nine years ago) link
I should have said New New New Avengers
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:14 (nine years ago) link
Marvel's relaunching fever over the past decade has surely and will continue to surely make catching up with this stuff a complete nightmare for anyone who doesn't have their finger firmly on the pulse.
― Ape Pagoda (Old Lunch), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:23 (nine years ago) link
i thought i read all the new avengers to prep for secret wars but i don't remember this issue :/
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 19:31 (nine years ago) link
the later ones had a lot of stuff packed in, including setting up plot threads for the big endingtbrr I will probably reread those again
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:36 (nine years ago) link
can I just say that Hickman's ability to spin disparate-but-related plot threads over several years is awe-inspiring and I hope that one day he writes a critically-acclaimed television series
― DJP, Friday, 15 May 2015 19:36 (nine years ago) link
he does kind of suffer from the fact that I don't care about some of his characters at all until I've read the whole thing all the way through the third time and appreciate their plot arc
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:37 (nine years ago) link
that makes him perfect for TV IMO
― DJP, Friday, 15 May 2015 19:39 (nine years ago) link
I guess his Pax Romana series was optioned by SyFy but they must just be sitting on it
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 19:47 (nine years ago) link
I'm really looking forward to knowing what Hickman will do afterwards. This is basically as big as it can be, who think Marvel will let him do the same thing all over again? And writing three Avengers books a month must be one of the highest paying positions at Marvel as well, he won't get the same money by writing another Secret Warriors. He has kinda climbed as high as you can in comics, so what do you do then? He can't really do the Bendis, he isn't really an X-men writer.
― Frederik B, Friday, 15 May 2015 20:36 (nine years ago) link
go work for dc?
― Mordy, Friday, 15 May 2015 20:38 (nine years ago) link
he was asked about it in interviews, basically said he's going to take a break and then maybe only do 12 issue self-contained series
― ultimate american sock (mh), Friday, 15 May 2015 20:39 (nine years ago) link
i don't suppose you guys have a convenient link to a Marvel Unlimited reading guide for all the crazy Hickman stuff
― Nhex, Saturday, 16 May 2015 06:02 (nine years ago) link
yeah, that would be super-helpful - i wanna catch up on this stuff too
― bizarro gazzara, Saturday, 16 May 2015 10:15 (nine years ago) link
This is pretty good:
http://www.comicbookherald.com/the-complete-marvel-reading-order-guide/secret-wars-reading-order/#secretwars6
Like the writer says, you don't really need to read Avengers World. It's not written by Hickman and doesn't affect the main run.
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 16 May 2015 12:59 (nine years ago) link
And an FF reading order here: http://www.comicbookherald.com/fantastic-four-reading-order/
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 16 May 2015 13:04 (nine years ago) link
That's the exact guide I've been using to catch up. The one that off-handedly says you could read the entire Ultimate line to get caught up and which I apparently took super seriously.
― Ape Pagoda (Old Lunch), Saturday, 16 May 2015 13:07 (nine years ago) link
You're totally right about the Loeb stuff.
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 16 May 2015 13:12 (nine years ago) link
(As a proviso to Nhex and Bizaaro, you really don't need to read anything on those lists that isn't writen by Hickman. Contextually the Millar run on FF sets up Hickman's storyline, but it's not especially good, and you can fill in the blanks.)
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 16 May 2015 13:14 (nine years ago) link
The guy that writes those lists should be put in charge of Marvel's reprints.
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 16 May 2015 13:15 (nine years ago) link
If the cover of the next Secret Wars is any indication, reading Hickman's Ultimate storyline with Reed Richards and his future city would be useful, along with the Fantastic Four/Future Foundation arc
Outside of Doom and his possible survival of multiversal hijinks, the two life rafts from the last two worlds were Reed and the FF from 616 and ultimate Reed and the Cabal (ultimate and 616)
― ultimate american sock (mh), Saturday, 16 May 2015 15:18 (nine years ago) link
thanks Chuck. there are actually so many reading guides on CBH that i didn't find those!
― Nhex, Saturday, 16 May 2015 15:46 (nine years ago) link
i'm a few years behind on Ultimate - I think I stopped before Cataclysm - but all the Ultimate Reed stuff was pretty awesome IMO
― Nhex, Saturday, 16 May 2015 15:47 (nine years ago) link
yeah thanks chuck!
― bizarro gazzara, Saturday, 16 May 2015 17:05 (nine years ago) link
Just finished the FF "Forever" storyline and it's really wonderful especially #604
― Mordy, Saturday, 16 May 2015 18:44 (nine years ago) link
so i've been catching up w/ stuff i missed and i'm reading some of the ultimate material atm (mostly the stuff that involves ultimate reed). before now the only ultimate comics i had read were the first few volumes of spider-man, which i thought was pretty okay. all the rest of this material tho... is the idea behind the ultimate universe that it's all the same characters but now 80% more jerky?
― Mordy, Sunday, 17 May 2015 23:30 (nine years ago) link
It wasn't supposed to be that way, but they let Jeph Loeb and Mark Millar write too many things so it became that way
― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, 18 May 2015 01:21 (nine years ago) link
mostly agree with that, though Millar had some good series here and thereLoeb's work with Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum was just awful, not even entertaining awful like Red Hulk
― Nhex, Monday, 18 May 2015 04:46 (nine years ago) link
There were some interesting things done with Ultimate X-Men after that, but Ultimatum was basically the end of that comics line being a sleeker, more cinematic version of the Marvel Universe. The first Avengers movie pulled heavily from the Ultimates, but can you imagine them using any of the later Ultimate stuff for movie material?
― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, 18 May 2015 14:00 (nine years ago) link
As far as I've gotten into it (still inching toward Ultimatum), most of the Ultimate stuff is pretty perfunctory. Bendis has done well with Spider-Man in terms of personalizing the characters and raising the stakes, and Ultimates was good in terms of bringing the wide-screen cinematic bombast, but very little of the rest of it has much reason for existing. Far too often, the Ultimate stories I've read have hinged on familiarity with their 616 analogues and the reader's ability to spot the differences between the two. Too much fan service and not enough effort to make the stories stand on their own.
― Ape Pagoda (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 May 2015 14:44 (nine years ago) link
post-Ultimatum there's some major status quo changes and stories that got away from this with some interesting results. the end of the Ult. Peter Parker run, the second generation of Ultimate X-Men, and the Ultimate Comics: Doomsday miniseries of series. (I'm kind of ignoring the wacky New Ultimates/Ultimate Avengers and Captain America stuff, though I guess I give 'em some points for that weird Red Skull/Captain America II hybrid story)
ultimate comics X was interesting to me, between the concentration camp stuff and the SEAR govt, felt like this was territory that was hinted at but shunted off to "alternate future" storylines in 616 and pursued further. some good stuff here
Ultimate Doomsday was boss, hard to explain why without spoilers though. let's just say it picks up on a bunch of pre-Ultimatum threads and does well
― Nhex, Monday, 18 May 2015 14:55 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, it's definitely starting to feel like the Ultimate universe was in need of an enema around the time Ultimatum was released. Loeb is like a creative Galactus, so he was kind of a perversely perfect choice.
― Ape Pagoda (Old Lunch), Monday, 18 May 2015 15:13 (nine years ago) link
who is loeb's herald i wonder
― bizarro gazzara, Monday, 18 May 2015 15:14 (nine years ago) link
speaking of Galactus, I like the Ultimate Galactus trilogy.
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 18 May 2015 15:36 (nine years ago) link