Is the West Experiencing a Right-Wing Drift?

The Liberals lost in 2006 because they were corrupt, arrogant, and entitled. They haven't managed to convince the voting public since then.

for the record, I agree with you re: vote-splitting. I don't want any kind of NDP/Liberals merger and will most likely vote NDP in the next election.

Still, I think it's difficult to argue that the Conservatives being the only viable party right of center doesn't benefit them enormously, allowing them to form majority governments despite not being able to get beyond 40% support.

The real problem is a lack of any kind of proportional representation.

I don't have the nuanced take on what is left wing, probably a bit dated & old fashioned. Indiscriminately killing civilians with drones and police does throw up some red flags though

most nuanced take

It is all shifted right in the context of most other Western countries.

it seems hard to dispute that obama's the most progressive president since johnson

Obama Lashes Out at Liberal Foes of Pacific Trade Deal
By PETER BAKER 3:07 PM ET
At Nike headquarters in Oregon, the president lashed out at critics within his own party, accusing Democrats of deliberately distorting the impact of the trade agreement he is negotiating with Asia.

i didn't think it'd be terribly controversial to say that obama was more progressive than carter or clinton. but yes i'm aware that the guy isn't bernie sanders.

you are also aware some people never get tired of criticizing him

I don't think the left's popularity is waning. It's just that their appeal is becoming more selective.

http://i.imgur.com/OGFBhT3.jpg

Here in Quebec it definitely feels like we have shifted to the right. Every successive Liberal leader has been more right-wing than his predecessor.

― silverfish, Friday, May 8, 2015 2:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not only that, but like in many places across the West, our de facto left wing party has slowly and steadily become right wing.

love the passive voice thread question

plz put the q in active voice for me

present progressive, not passive

de facto left wing party

Had sort of a hollow lol when I realized that this probably refers to the PQ.

h/t the donald trump thread

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/_MxkTUjnGeBaoavzdNapdX_UqkI=/1600x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4082854/Figure_7_.0.png

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by "shift in the percentage replying..." -- e.g. if 1000 respondents were surveyed from the United States in 1995 and 50 said "good or very good" then, does the chart mean that the number/1000 increased to 55 in 2014, or does it mean it increased to 150?

i.e. are we talking percent change or percentage point change?

the way i understand it, if in 1955 20% said army rule is good, and then in 2015 30% said so, there would be an increase of 10%? does that make sense?

btw i think the premise of this thread is true more than ever right now.

I don't think there's an overall rightward drift in the US. I do think there's a rightward drift on the right.

xp that makes sense, as long as that's what vox means

btw i think the premise of this thread is true more than ever right now.

― Mordy

I dunno. hard to say. to play devil's advocate:

likelihood is the United States will elect a democrat next year for the third election in a row.

Canada just voted out the conservatives in an election where the conservatives purposefully used wedge issues and stoked islamophobia as a vote-winning tactic.

The ruling party the conservative PP in Spain failed to return a majority in the election on Sunday.

I do think there's a rightward drift on the right.

^^^this

otoh france has moved so far to the right that the socialists had to throw their support behind the republicans to keep the national front out of power

terrorist attacks will do that

It's also important not to treat the opinions of the youngest voters as the future, necessarily, because people's opinions can tend to moderate as they age.

"moderate"

I do think that we've seen an increase in a kind of hyper-emotional style of politics that drives people away from grudgingly settling on the middle. I think the internet and social media actually have begun to break up the hold that mainstream news channels and the sensible-sounding center had on US politics, with both good and bad effects. I think Sanders' substantial support is evidence of that every bit as much as Trump's -- it has to be the internet and social media that have allowed Sanders to raise the kind of funds he has from small donors while being given little attention in old guard press and tv outlets.

I think as far as a worldwide rightward drift, though, that was actually happening from the 80s through 00's and now may have pulled back a bit. Maybe not in every country, but in the US and much of Europe (in spite of surges in right-wing nationalism), I think so. Obviously Israel has gone further right, maybe India has.

The responses on the army-rule question are not necessarily comparable between countries -- a heavily destabilized country like Iraq might have good reasons for seeing army rule as an alternative beyond any "rightward drift"

India's internal politics don't track much with other countries afaict, lot of unique competing interests and circumstances there

re France our republicans are to the left of your American republicans, tbh the Front Nationale is to the left of your republicans

sort of impressive india has never been under military rule

in the United States there was a definite rightwards shift in center-left coalitions starting in the late seventies and peaking in the presidency of Bill Clinton.

i don't know if this phenomenon has as much to do with ideology as much as it has to do with structural changes in capitalism

xxp 1858–1947

fwiw i was arguing w my dad a month ago and he called me a progressive, which was weird, cos that's maybe the first time in my entire life anyone, let alone him, has said that. i blame Trump and Facebook.

you should tell your dad that you're a La Follette Republican

We all need to reach out to our Muslim family and friends, imo

Maybe that's condescending? I hate this shit. My irl friends (yes I have a few) know how I feel.

bump.

fingers crossed i don't have to bump this thread again in nov.

while neocons like Kagan fundraise for Clinton, the more reliable War Pig.

stfu dumbass

lol, timely revive :(

while neocons like Kagan fundraise for Clinton, the more reliable War Pig.

― helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Friday, June 24, 2016 9:19 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's really remarkable how human-like this experiment in artificial intelligence is. it's almost as if a real person is up around the clock, posting the same ideas every ten minutes, couched in slightly different language, metaphors, and invective. whoever programmed this bot deserves more attention than she is getting.

the same like 3 people bop in to respond to every single morbs post and you're one of them so who's the bot here

http://www.theycallmedaymz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/whostheboss.jpg

to answer the q idk if it's an overall drift but the right we've known is being eaten alive by the right we thought was dead

big french election next year too. marie le pen looking pretty smug today.

the same like 3 people bop in to respond to every single morbs post and you're one of them so who's the bot here

― goole, Friday, June 24, 2016 11:00 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i happen to read many of the politics threads, and morbs happens to post 400 times an hour in those, 90% of his posts variations on the same thing. sorry if once in a while i mock him for it. makes it every slightly more bearable, in the absence of a reliable post filter.

sorry we're all engaging in hyperbole here. i don't respond to "every single" morbs post (that would be several full-time jobs) and he doesn't post "400 times an hour."

Security and foreign policy have always been the go-to for easy gains in electoral points, you won't convince me it's ideological.

But what's unfathomable to me is not seeing a difference between Trump and Macron

I guess Macron’s likeable if you don’t care about Muslims or black people or the poor.

You won't convince me that pandering to racists and the far right really is a positive electorally.

It was fun how he tried to move the press room at the Elysee so journalists couldn’t see who came and went, surely not something that would ever backfire with fascists in power

But what's unfathomable to me is not seeing a difference between Trump and Macron

That's not what was said though.

I'm not French nor a close follower though.

The recently released video clips from 2022 of Macron talking to both Zelenskyy and Putin on the phone have such a weird uncanny valley feeling about them (Putins 'sorry bro I'm at the gym about to play hockey' line?). I feel like I'm being duped by a skit

You won't convince me that pandering to racists and the far right really is a positive electorally.

― man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:12 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not "pandering", but hard disagree. If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years, it's that you cannot let them occupy the security and immigration terrain alone, because that's exactly where you can (and need) to contain their growth. We can discuss how to best manage it and nobody is saying the French immigration bill was the only option.

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

If there is one thing that European far-right nationalism has taught us in the last 20 years

Here’s an idea: all the fascists’ ideas are bad, and you do not, in fact, need to hand it to them.

The far right have nothing to say on the subject of security that isn’t “persecute Muslims” and “restrict civil liberties”. Most of them take Russian money and hang out with people who are huge security risks.

The thing about is it strategic vs is it ideological is that it doesn't matter - playing with anti immigration sentiment still moves the overton window and the idea that you could then somehow keep things to acceptable levels (whatever those would be) is delusional.

The only acceptable level to the fascists is none and repatriation of people who’ve been there generations. Let’s just be honest about that.

Yes. Also pandering, and that is exactly the right word, hasn't worked and will never work.

hey if there's one thing the history of fascists in power has taught us it's that they definitely moderate their demands if you accommodate them a little

With the proviso of course that if you actually believe in these policies, it isn't pandering.

the "Is" in this thread title needs moving two places to the right, funnily enough

that's not very funny

Security and foreign policy have always been the go-to for easy gains in electoral points

Citation needed, this strategy appears to be a failure when it's tried. Even the glorious centrist revolutions in the west of the past decades (Blair, Clinton, 2017 Macron) were riding on an economic message first and foremost.

If you're a reactionary/racist voter and have the choice of a gleefully reactionary/racist candidate and a candidate that's open to a little bit of reaction/racism for a treat - what, exactly, is supposed to be the draw of the latter?

you won't convince me it's ideological.

Being open to a little strategic racism is itself ideological.

otm

I don’t think Nah, bozo will be responding, somehow.

Seriously doesn’t matter whether those enacting racist policy do so out of conviction or cynicism, but also the whole “I know they don’t believe it in their secret heart of hearts” bit is — at best — naive credulity masquerading as realpolitik. At worst, well.

Reading this thread with Gustavo Petro's quote from last year on the back of my mind: "Many in Europe have already welcomed Hitler into their homes", something like that

The West has been experiencing a right wing drift since about 1979.