Continuing with CDs?

you do it quite a lot and it feels like a spillover of those twitter dudes who feel the need to pedantically factcheck the most innocuous tweets ppl make

I think this case is a pretty understandable misread though.

i'm sorry our previous interactions have you on the defensive - that factors into why i said "honestly not trying to pick a fight"

"i think it's great as a culture we're moving away from owning music" is statement i've heard from plenty of people, most memorably jace clayton in an interview. it's not an obvious absurd exaggeration, it's a common idealistic sentiment.

yes but you see being needlessly pedantic after that phrase kinda negated it, as it usually does

xp

also i don't believe in the slightest you actually misunderstood for more than a second

i'm not sure what i did to make you this contemptuous but you get a third sorry and i'm leaving at that

leaving it at that, rather. not stomping out of a benign thread about cds or anything.

Ripping it to digital allows you to take it with you on your commute, at the office, etc.

i rip to a network storage device, which means i can pump the mp3s into my amp using the Sonos Connect gadget.
the quality is seriously so much better than using your audio output of your laptop.
also means i dont have to dig through my 5000+ cd collection to play anything, i just select it in the sonos application, and off it goes.

love it.

also, i have got some original vinyl pressings, and the equivalent (normally remastered) cd.
and having done a like for like comparison, for quite a few situations that i have this for : ELO, Cabaret Voltaire, The The, Madness, ABC, Human League, Foetus, ZTT, etc etc,

i definitely know which i prefer.

yes, i know it's probably due to limits of my entry level record deck (pro-ject debut), but still ..

Well, I just got a new CD player (the old one stopped working; I did um and ah about it a bit, as 99% of my listening is now mp3), so yeah.

My logic was a little shaky though: I need a new CD player so my thousands of old CDs aren't a complete waste of space, even if I barely listen to them, because I can't bring myself to get rid of them, especially now they're no longer worth anything to sell. And I worry that CD players may be getting less reliable and more expensive to replace. My father bought the family's first CD player in 1990 and it still works. My last CD player lasted just a few years. The new one is pretty plasticky so who knows how long it's got.

I don't get vinyl. Not for albums, anyway; I used to love buying a handful of 99p 7"s by bands I'd barely heard of every week, or getting admittedly childish "in on a secret" thrills from finding an obscure 7" with a sheaf of fliers for other obscure records/zines or a cryptic barely-labelled electronic 12". But LPs I used to buy only because they were cheap, for all the reasons 誤訳侮辱 said, and now they are not cheap: most of the new LPs in my local record store are at least £18-20 or even more, and they're not even any better pressed than the things I bought only reluctantly in the 90s to listen to on my cheap record deck through a veil of mysterious noise which might have been ground hum or surface noise or a dodgy stylus (though it never went away when I replaced the stylus) or a billion other things.

OK, that was my equipment's fault and not necessarily vinyl's, but I suspect the student-aged people I see buying vinyl are playing it on cheap gear or not at all, too.

lol yeah, they are using the download code and mounting the unplayed record in a frame on their wall

(shakes fist at cloud)

XXP sonos is great
I buy CDs if I like a whole album (rare) because my car is old and only has a CD player. I even make mix CDs for it!

i have no idea whether it's a more accurate or clear sound or whatever, but i love the sound of old records - authenticity fetish, lifestyle choice, whatever. i find it warm and pleasant. i can see my CDs going before I stop playing vinyl - the number of albums I love that aren't on streaming or easily findable on used LP relatively small, and while it sucks on principle that stuff gets lost in the cracks, there's only so many hours in the day to revisit them anyway

i was playing CDs in the car but my number of commutes dropped recently so i've just been flipping the dial on sirius, so currently the cds are just there for security and posterity, with records played if i'm chilling and reading and streaming played if i'm at my laptop

sound-wise, CDs have just gotten better. just in time for nobody to listen to them. some of the crazy dvd-audio CDs i've heard, man oh man, it's like listening in 5D. it really is the way to go with electronic music. and electro-acoustic music.

yeah someday i'd love to have all music i listen to coming through the same awesome system (that i don't currently own). until then any assessment of formats is filtered through the shit speaker they're coming out of

it just makes sense to listen to laptop music on your laptop. new digital studio recordings on CD or DVD. old analog recordings on vinyl or reel-to-reel tape. in my opinion. not that i listen to reel-to-reel tape. but in a perfect world. i think a well-made cd is the happy medium though. you are more likely to hear a satisfying recording that way. vinyl can involve a lot of trial and error to find the right pressing/copy and obviously most people don't want to go through all that. and if sound quality isn't your first concern, than streaming/MP3 makes sense too.

so when will the CD revival happen? 2025?

it's already begun with me! i find great used cds all the time now for cheap. and so much of it is already out of print. random reissues and old rap and metal cds. now is a good time to go through the cd bins.

plus, the PS1 i use as a cd player is the best cd player i've ever had. i love playing stuff on it. first cd player i've ever really enjoyed! i'm back to the future....

scott tells the truth.
as i have said elsewhere, cd bins/charity shops are fantastic at the moment.
i live in a small little town, and people are offloading their cds to the local charity shops at quite a pace meaning i am stocking up for little ££ outlay.
long may it continue.

i was learning some Zulu today on CD. language instruction CDs are big in our house. you can find them in book stores now for nothing.

somewhere I read that those PS1 things have really good DAC circuitry, I should track one down

that 'somewhere' was probably scott on another thread.
i had no idea until he mentioned it here.
i have since been asking people i know if they have an old ps1 they want to bin/donate to a worthy cause !

I feel like people are speaking at odds through some of this thread though. Depends what genres and styles, different releases are directed to different formats. This is an obvious point, but the idea that there is Platonic ideal of a record is a fiction. These things are technically accomplished in specific ways, and that can also mean that there are artists who are not striving for an ideal of CD high fidelity. It's an obvious point, but I still feel like it needs to be said.

just looked on Craigslist and PS1s are $10-$30, totally gonna get one

Is that original PS1's or do PSOnes count as well?

You've got me wondering wth even happened to my original ps1. It seems to have just disappeared.

do you have it hooked up to a tv and controller to use the PS 1 as a CD player?

i use a ps2 as a cd player cuz i like the goofyfuture spinning colored cubes that represent each track

my ps3 is my in-house cd player and i'm not happy the ps4 reportedly doesn't play cds

nope, hooked up to my receiver. it has rca plugs.

x-post

i've actually been thinking about getting good slightly smaller new speakers to put on top of my olde tyme speakers and listen to digi sounds on those. if that makes any sense. my old speakers make records sound amazing, but i think i could optimize my cd listening with speakers designed for digital.

I've read everything in this revive and have a few things to add:

1. All "portable" music is expendable. It's expendable because it should always be a copy. When i was young i copied my records and discs to (high quality) cassettes and took those mobile. Today; slide what you want to listen to onto a CD-RW or MicroSD, and take it mobile. Lost or otherwise ruined -- a new copy awaits back at home.

2. 8-Tracks really do suck. Unless it's the only piece of audio equipment in some remote cabin or lodge; there audio bleed-trough and track re-ordering leaves little beyond kitsch to appreciate.

3. Flac is an oxymoron. If it lacks the lesser footprint of a mp3 but you like it well enough to seek the higher audio quality of the format; bit the bullet and get a bonafide copy.

4. Mp3 players hooked into the aux jack of your car stereo. Most medium to low end players need and receive a tremendous benefit from a headphone amp -- spend about $100 and rock-out to your hearts content. Oh yeah, and skip the shitty earbuds as well.

5. The vinyl resurgence is awful? This is a short view; while inflated pricing and quality issues are currently evident, the increased popularity in wax further validates the longevity of the format. I began buying LPs in the 70s and bought a TON of second-hand stuff in the 90s when prices were cheap. Having a new generation jump on the bandwagon keeps manufacturers making new gear and will also lead to another buyers market when the folks who bought into LPs as part of a fad get out of the medium and, in turn, bolster the second hand market.

6. Will CDs retire with the Time/Life generation? It took grandma and grandpa a long time to accept CDs into the music realm; today their death-grip is assured. Sure, i still buy them as i fell confident that i will still be able to easily listen to them 20 years down the road. All of my CDs are well-cared for, and i'm proud to say that i've only abused and ruined a couple of them in my lifetime. All my custom-burnt CDs are on high quality branded media, and other than the requisite mis-burnt coasters, have none that have faltered do to excessive "shelf-wear".

7. Streaming doesn't float for the non-metro crowd. Not living in a large metropolitan area, while i do have DSL and wi-fi, struggle to get a 4G signal at my home. Again, going forward with my first point (that all portable should be expendable) it will still be some time before streaming, even though completely acceptable, will become a part of my day-to-day. Metropolitan areas always get the newest and fastest tech (even though the increased user-base may make it crawl) but they all seemed trained to need unlimited data plans, subscription music services, pay TV, and even more-so, an avenue to broadcast their comings-and-goings via their online up-to-the-minute presence. I've tried all the streaming services and satellite stations and haven't yet found one that's satisfying beyond the short term -- i'll take my fave local programs, podcasts, blogs, and review sites to keep my interest reliably piqued. BTW; i use the descriptor "metro" very loosely -- in rural america if you're more than a couple miles from a small town or major through-way, your chances of getting reliable and affordable high-speed internet remains very dubious.

8. It all comes down to storage density. Having a better mp3 compression regime may make those files sound better, but, frankly, i find today's mp3s very listenable when played through better hardware -- even though i still prefer the "full audio product" for my permanent collection. For me to forego the traditional physical media will require significant maturation in storage tech. My guess is that it will need to be in 5-10 terabyte range of capacity, completely removable, and be no larger than a deck of cards; that you "plug-in" to your central stereo system (media station) and access from wherever your corded or or wireless hotspot allows. The more significant linchpin is the interface; i've yet to use any audio device that replicates the feeling i get from flipping through an actual collection. A tablet-style interface could certainly satisfy my cover art and liner note needs, but it will take some fairly visionary software to make me enjoy the experience enough to ditch the real stuff.

9. Short answer: No, yes, yes.

Streaming doesn't float for the non-metro crowd. Not living in a large metropolitan area, while i do have DSL and wi-fi, struggle to get a 4G signal at my home.

Good obvious point that makes sense, considering I've a friend who lives in north central Florida and switched from dial-up to DSL eighteen months ago – and he could've afforded the switch years ago.

> 3. Flac is an oxymoron. If it lacks the lesser footprint of a mp3 but you like it well enough to seek the higher audio quality of the format; bit the bullet and get a bonafide copy.

not sure what you're getting at here. flac is a *perfect* copy of the original wav just in a more concise coding, analogous to a .zip file. ot if by 'bonafide copy' you mean a physical copy then the deciding factor for me is often price. are the cd sleevenotes worth the extra couple of quid (and the extra couple of quid of postage)? if the only other version that's available is a vinyl copy then this is a no-brainer - flac every time.

http://boomkat.com/vinyl/1230196-gomila-park-ununoctium
vinyl 12" - £12.99
flac - £2.95

also, you can turn FLACs back into WAV files and burn them to a CDR

apparently depending on how wonky your CD/CD player is, you might not be getting all the bits of data off the CD from a regular listen (hence why some ripping programs make multiple passes to make sure), so FLAC might be better for perfect sound forever purposes.

I did not intend to suggest that flac files contain any less audio data than the wav -- but, yes, the bonafide copy in my book is the physical copy. Besides the hard copy archival value, we could quibble over the value of the art and liner notes -- and not only do i place value on the art and notes, i would urge musicians to exploit these spaces to bring more value to physical copy (at least until the industry finds a reliable way to equitably compensate them for the digital ones).

Kinda wonder if the no-internet crowd are changing their format habits much. I've got a couple of friends with no internet so I'll probably ask them next time I see them. There's only a few choices so the results probably won't startle.

I'm sure hundreds of big cities around the world don't have a good enough connection for streaming.

In the decade I've had internet, the longest I've ever had completely satisfying internet service is just over a year. Streaming probably won't be an option for a long time but I don't think I'll ever use it much even if I can.

When does loss occur in an audio file? I've tried to find succinct explanations but can't.

When does loss occur in an audio file? I've tried to find succinct explanations but can't.

Compression or making a file smaller causes loss. Streaming and mp3 conversion both equal loss.

is there a streaming FLAC service? that would be lossless.

uhh

Tidal

apparently it has already crashed & burned though

There are a couple i've heard of -- but they're not ready to go mobile.

http://tidal.com/us
http://www.deezer.com/offers/elite -- piggybacks on Sonos

Tidal Hi-Fi is $20 / mth

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/ is $20 as well

Having a new generation jump on the bandwagon keeps manufacturers making new gear

No new record presses have been manufactured in the last decade or two; the tooling is prohibitively expensive and/or non-existent, and the people who knew how to make them are either dead or retired.

and will also lead to another buyers market when the folks who bought into LPs as part of a fad get out of the medium and, in turn, bolster the second hand market.

This will likely happen, but the problem is, this second-hand market will lean heavily towards the crappy overpriced mastered-from-CD reissues currently clogging pressing plants.

http://qz.com/103785/hipsters-are-buying-vinyl-records-but-they-arent-listening-to-them/

While vinyl sales have increased at about 30% compounded annually over the last 6 years, turntable sales have remained fairly flat over that time, ranging from 104,000 to 115,000 according to the Consumer Electronics Association. So either the newer turntables purchased are far, far more durable than those in recent memory (they aren’t—high quality electronics companies like Panasonic are discontinuing their units and those that are sold are increasingly cheaper, portable models like this one I bought from Urban Outfitters) or something else is happening with these records.

thousands of people buying OLD turntables. people come in my place and want turntables and i tell them where they can get new ones and they don't want new ones. they want "cool" vintage tables. for, like, a dollar. but anyway, no way to know how many old ones have sold in the last five years. tons though.

> the bonafide copy in my book is the physical copy

fair enough. and i will buy cds if they are comparative in price. but, like i say, sometimes the only alternative is an expensive vinyl copy...

and i realised the other day that it's not just the booklet and sleeve you miss with a digital copy, often you don't even get a catalogue number.

(flac, in my book, is superior to wav in more than just filesize because you can embed metadata to it.)

> Compression or making a file smaller causes loss.

no, you can compress a file losslessly, the same way you can zip a file and unzip it again and not lose any information. flac compression will typically make a file 60% of the original size without loss. mp3s at 128 are about 10% the size of the original wav but are lossy, so some information is lost. the trick is to try and throw away the unimportant data, things you don't normally perceive anyway...

or they inherited one from their parents like i did.
xp