Continuing with CDs?

Muddy Waters at Newport last time, and two Count Basie lps this time. I have no idea why.

because she has good taste?

She's working towards it, sure.

The muddy, they'd talked about it in school.

The Basie, she was working through the jazz section and decided he must be good as there were two lps there.

I will never, ever understand people's affection for vinyl, especially not people younger than me. I'm 43, so I was already buying music before CDs were introduced, and I fucking hated records as a kid. If they didn't get scratched enough to skip, they still sounded like ass, all crackly and getting a little worse every time you played them; if your turntable was shitty (like mine was), the speed wavered so the singer's voice slowed down and sped up...plus they took up so much space and my room was tiny already...a fucking terrible format. I preferred tapes to vinyl, for all of the aforementioned reasons plus portability (I was never without my walkman starting in about eighth grade), and when CDs came out I was all about that shit, and have never looked back. Now, I do 90 percent of my listening on my iPod, but I still buy and rip CDs, and every once in a while will actually throw something on the stereo and lay on the couch and listen to it.

I don't understand the cassette revival. Yeah, they're as portable as CDs but sound like shit plus they lack the artwork of vinyl releases if you're into that sort of thing. The worst format ever save for the 8-track and I have no idea why hipsters thought it would be a good idea to bring them back.

I don't understand the minidisc revival!

i don't understand "cd vs. digital". uh, cds _are_ digital?

Don't vinyls also require a lot of maintenance? They seem to warp in the heat easily.
There's a big thread about audio file maintenance/collecting, all this crap about lossy/lossless files I need to learn. So I feel comfortable with cds because I never scratch them and very rarely have problems playing them.

i don't understand "cd vs. digital". uh, cds _are_ digital?

― rushomancy, Wednesday, April 22, 2015 8:19 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The distinction is about physical not sound quality.

getting ready to move and I've put aside about a thousand CDs to try and sell, knowing that I'll probably have to leave them in the street and should have done this 13 years ago. (haven't estimated how many are going into storage yet.)

OK that's true there are plenty of questionable pressings. It's up to the collector to be savvy.

this is an insane attitude.

currently in the process of cataloging on discogs and ripping all my CDs - well, re-ripping the majority at higher bitrate - and sticking them away into archive boxes. this'll clear out both a corner of my bedroom where I'd stuffed the old CD racks and made half of them a pain to access, and also free up the cabinet in the main room that currently has a boombox and piles of CDs strewn all over (and inside) it. not particularly interested in the streaming services so have gone with a sonos box to route everything through the amp that I also run my turntables through.

I'll still buy CDs though - it's not like I've run at the 4-5 new ones a week that I was amassing them at from '02-05 anyway. well, other than a recent eno reissue binge.

I am going to try and schlep off a pile of about 50 that a) don't interest me any more b) might actually go for something second-hand. which is an OK retention rate for roughly 1k in the collection.

my experience with an mp3 player/aux port in the car is that the signal from the mp3 is very weak, where you've got to nearly max out the volume on the portable player to get substantial sound. i've only used Sony or Sandisk-brand players, so that may be a factor in the signal weakness.

the convenience of the CD is its best quality, and there's a lot of specialised (EAI, electronic, weird jazz etc.) that isn't even printed on vinyl. CD-RWs are nice to test out new stuff on the stereo, but the cd-r still seems like a cheap/not 'true' medium for audio files. that's just a mental/aesthetic quip, i suppose.

i recently visited with friends who have a lot of interest in high quality amp/receiver/turntable setups, and while it seems a bit silly (and expensive) to me, there's something endearing about a room full of afficionados putting on something like sea change and really basking in/believing in the increased warmth/clarity/whatever such a setup/medium allows. these are mostly new/alt-country, 'easy listening' type chaps.

the cassette revival is annoying because people are putting out shoddy dubs on normal bias tapes, and while it's punk/novel/creative or whatever, i believe these people should re-examine their standards for audio quality. i'm all for high-bias audio cassette listening experiences, though the metal bias tapes are hard to come by. anything more than a limited run is unrealistic. tape is nice because you can't just up and skip ahead, without some difficulty. I think that limitation improves the listening experience. Also, mix tapes are still fun to make.. you're definitely spending more time with the audio material, which improves the sequence of tracks and the material you choose to include. unfortunately, most people don't really appreciate the process, or have the means to play it, nowadays.

my experience with an mp3 player/aux port in the car is that the signal from the mp3 is very weak, where you've got to nearly max out the volume on the portable player to get substantial sound. i've only used Sony or Sandisk-brand players, so that may be a factor in the signal weakness.

When I plug my iPod into my car stereo, I can control the volume via the iPod or the car stereo. And yeah, I have to turn it up louder than I would if I had headphones on, but not that much louder.

I think the "vinyl resurgence" is mystifying and kind of awful

OK, I'll take the bait, why? I love buying vinyl these days, can't imagine why I'd buy a CD for the life of me.

This sums it up, pretty much (though I'm about ten years younger):

[q]I will never, ever understand people's affection for vinyl, especially not people younger than me. I'm 43, so I was already buying music before CDs were introduced, and I fucking hated records as a kid. If they didn't get scratched enough to skip, they still sounded like ass, all crackly and getting a little worse every time you played them...(snip)...a fucking terrible format. I preferred tapes to vinyl, for all of the aforementioned reasons plus portability (I was never without my walkman starting in about eighth grade), and when CDs came out I was all about that shit, and have never looked back.[q]

CDs aren't perfect but that they're still the physical format with the least disadvantages.

I understand the aesthetic appeal of LP album artwork but from a sonic perspective CDs are easily superior for the most part (much better signal-to-noise ratio, none of the consistency problems due to different pressings, worn-out stampers, etc.) In any event, almost all new vinyl is pressed from digital files these days. Plenty of people I know and respect are very passionate about new vinyl releases but I just find the whole thing faintly ludicrous and (to use a very hackneyed phrase) a triumph of style over substance.

Buying new vinl2015 strike me, to use a hackneyed phrase, as a triumph of style over substance. Plenty of people I know and respect are really into it, I just think it's silly.

Ugh, formatting blues. Take 2:

I think the "vinyl resurgence" is mystifying and kind of awful

OK, I'll take the bait, why? I love buying vinyl these days, can't imagine why I'd buy a CD for the life of me.

This sums it up, pretty much (though I'm about ten years younger):

I will never, ever understand people's affection for vinyl, especially not people younger than me. I'm 43, so I was already buying music before CDs were introduced, and I fucking hated records as a kid. If they didn't get scratched enough to skip, they still sounded like ass, all crackly and getting a little worse every time you played them...(snip)...a fucking terrible format. I preferred tapes to vinyl, for all of the aforementioned reasons plus portability (I was never without my walkman starting in about eighth grade), and when CDs came out I was all about that shit, and have never looked back.

CDs aren't perfect but I think they're still the physical format with the least disadvantages.

I understand the aesthetic appeal of LP album artwork but from a sonic perspective CDs are easily superior for the most part (much better signal-to-noise ratio, none of the consistency problems due to different pressings, worn-out stampers, etc.) In any event, almost all new vinyl is pressed from digital files these days. Plenty of people I know and respect are very passionate about new vinyl releases but I just find the whole thing faintly ludicrous and (to use a very hackneyed phrase) a triumph of style over substance.

- lots of old music still hasn't been properly mastered to cd, but i say that every week around here.

- lots of new music isn't pressed on cd, period. i don't know about rock music but new techno vinyl still sounds pretty good.

- yeah it sucks having to spend 20 seconds cleaning a record. but it does actually prevent the whole "sounded like ass, all crackly and getting a little worse every time you played them" thing.

- seriously, though, it does suck having to spend $100 every 5-10 years for a new stylus

- cds are cool

good breakdown imo

like, deep purple in rock, the 1995 remaster that's out there sounds so bad. i'd have to find a 1980s out of print edition, one of those $50 out of print audio fidelity edition, or *GASP! HIPSTER! UNCLEAN!* some 70s vinyl edition to fully get my rock on

i bet the friday music lp reissue of in rock sounds awesome. that's a label whose vinyl pressings really sound great. no crackle or nothing, honest!!

maybe these 00s japan cd issues are worthwhile..

so, in conclusion, everybody's wrong and everybody's right. this court is adjourned *pounds gavel*

- lots of old music still hasn't been properly mastered to cd, but i say that every week around here.

- lots of new music isn't pressed on cd, period. i don't know about rock music but new techno vinyl still sounds pretty good.

- yeah it sucks having to spend 20 seconds cleaning a record. but it does actually prevent the whole "sounded like ass, all crackly and getting a little worse every time you played them" thing.

Thanks for adding this so I don't have to. I also like the format, I like that I can watch it play and handle records when DJing. I accept the fact that there is a resurgence of vinyl and have read about the quality issues that have stemmed from that demand, but I haven't personally had that experience. I download music for many genres and if there's a nice vinyl release, then I will purchase that.

Actually I don't even own a CD player, except in my old Mac. That said, I'd sooner get a cassette player these days.

haha great posts brimstead

I bought a cassette a couple of weeks ago, I just rip them to digital like LPs, no big deal.

Yeah, there's the occasional cassette where I think that it would be cool to own it with the artwork as the official release and listen to it that way as well.

I feel less like a persecuted minority after this thread. CDs are fine by me, although I sometimes wish the brittleness and unnecessarily generous depth of the standard jewel case had been resolved in some other way early on. When it comes to storage they're not really all that compact.

I have plenty of vinyl but can't imagine any situation where I'd buy it new unless it was cheaper than the corresponding CD. Given the cost of used CDs these days, this situation doesn't seem to arise. Downloads too are comparatively expensive, especially lossless, and frankly I find it too easy to skip around a collection of soft copies, thereby failing to really listen properly. I came to the latter conclusion after doing precisely that for a decade.

One area where where I suspect there's little chance of a major vinyl revival is with classical audiences. There seems to be an expectation that both new recordings and reissues of older recordings should be filled out (often twofer style, in effect) to near the capacity of a CD. Makes the prospect of listening to 4 sides of vinyl to hear, say, one Bruckner symphony seem a tad archaic.

I haven't bought CDs since my whole collection was stolen in 2008. I can't say I miss them at all.

Buying second-hand CDs benefits the artists even less than streaming. My main issue with CDs is that a whole wall full of cases looks fucking ugly, especially once they get past a certain age, they're just not nice as an artefact and they mostly look cheap and shitty. A wall full of vinyl looks cool, a wall full of books looks cool, a wall full of CDs looks like a 90s student bedroom.

as someone who has been through traumatic hard drive crashes, the "u might lose ur entire collection!!!!!!1111" fear is really misplaced. the only things impossible to find again are the ones never available in physical form in the first place (rip all my grime mp3s). and as someone who still owns boxes of old CDs that i still haven't got round to ripping or selling, it's also my experience that it's often easier, when i suddenly think of an old album/song i know i own on CD and want to hear years later, to grab it off the internet than root around in those horrible boxes.

i feel like society moving away from physical possessions is only a mark of progress. unnecessary physical possessions = clutter and dust and a terrible time when you move house. begone.

(lol @ anyone who argues that buying vinyl isn't a lifestyle signifier. it's a perfectly valid one of course but c'mon!)

might start a project to knit jewel case cosies to make them look nicer, get the innocent smoothy generation on board, hey people we can do this

I haven't bought CDs since my whole collection was stolen in 2008. I can't say I miss them at all.

Yeah, my CD collection just look depressing and hideous. For me, a prevailing image of the late 90s/early 00s is that of hundreds of cracked jewel cases with ugly minimalist inlays chucked in an Our Price cut out bin.

I like my CD collection. It doesn't look hideous.

Panoramic shot of my CD collection in my office:

https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/1452014_10153555178025597_159051485_n.jpg?oh=9fa8f1b73ffb84ff21e065c423df66f0&oe=55A1F36F

I just bought a new CD shelf that is in the living room as I have no room anymore.

I don't think it looks hideous.

no it looks nice.

I like how my HD looks:
http://www.wexphotographic.com/webcontent/product_images/large/142/1552330.jpg

(lol @ anyone who argues that buying vinyl isn't a lifestyle signifier. it's a perfectly valid one of course but c'mon!)

I wouldn't necessarily argue it isn't, but music consumption is somehow always about lifestyle signifiers. Not sure what you're getting at, unless you're suggesting it's elitist to purchase vinyl? I dunno, maybe it is, but I don't find it expensive, I don't have a problem with sound quality, I like that it's a way to support artists and get their music in often the only format that it's officially released in, I like that it's not skippable in the same way as digital, I like the physicality of it, and the artwork. And it does feel nice having an actual release of something fairly limited as well (recently like Mood Hut or the Workshop releases). I supposed I have a bit of a post-digital investment with vinyl in that respect.

Of course it also helps that there's interesting record stores like Rush Hour nearby with a great selection of stuff as well, and that I'm into house and techno, for instance, where vinyl is still a key format anyway.

I should say as well that I don't begrudge people being into CDs either. I just couldn't see myself in general buying them in light of MP3s.

"Cheap"/"disposable" re CDs seems a common sentiment amongst vinyl fanciers. Which is interesting given vinyl-plus-sleeve = not terribly dissimilar set of basic materials. :)

That HD looks like a solar powered dingy.

It's vvverry bouncy. Floats in water too.

Actually the other day I was looking at friend's copy of the new Aphex Twin CD and the Designer's Republic really did an exceptional job on that. It was the first time for ages that I considered getting the CD.

Cd's all the way for me although I do buy FLAC's occasionally. CD's sometimes have a bit of re-sell value on discogs plus they're small enough to hide away if necessary. And the art work can be innovative(see above). I look at vinyl prices in record shops and my stock response is: "you are having a fucking laugh...?!"

Although I do agree with this:

i feel like society moving away from physical possessions is only a mark of progress.
― lex pretend

Mmmm, I like less clutter, but I also miss going to people's houses and making snap judgments about them based on their bookshelves and CD libraries.

I managed to get everything restored from my last couple of hard drive crashes but that's made me more assiduous about backing up, and the price and storage of cloud services has got to the point where it's relatively easy to back up an entire digital music and photo collection. Profoundly un-rock and roll obviously.

Technically I should have got rid of every book I've already read and just keep one at a time, but there's a reason I don't. Somewhere between 'It looks nice on my shelf' and 'I have read and absorbed this - it is a part of me, and while I don't intend to re-read it I feel reminded of it when I see the spine'. Same with records and CDs - being able to flick through album covers feels natural and I feel as though I can ascribe more to an album if I have a visual/tangible stimulus to go along with the music. Digital is very useful and tidy, but looking at a long list of folders and artist names just isn't as appealing. My eyes get used to seeing the same list each time and I often automatically skip over some folders out of habit. Later I'll find myself in a record shop and see an album from my HD folder that I haven't played in years and suddenly get an itch to listen to it - something I don't generally get from the 'detail' view in a windows folder.

"Cheap"/"disposable" re CDs seems a common sentiment amongst vinyl fanciers.

The cheapness/disposability of CDs to me comes partly from how many junk CDs there are in the world, and in my flat specifically. Free magazine CDs, installation CDs for random software hardware, stacks of blank CDs that will never now be used, things that look like blank CDs that turn out to contain my shitty demos from 2002, or someone else's shitty demos, or random bits of porn. I hate it all. If home vinyl pressing had ever been a thing I would have now at the back of a cupboard dozens of discs containing loads of terrible 90s bands' live performances recorded off the TV, and I certainly wouldn't be buying any fresh stuff.

i'm kind of on board with lex here too. when people talk about music formats i think about the transition to a post-scarcity economy.

because most of my youth was spent trying to gain access to recordings that were mythologized but unavailable, so when downloading became a thing i hoovered down everything i could get my hands on, under the assumption that any minute now THE FEDZ would swoop in and it would all be shut off.

except that never happened, and as it didn't happen i became more and more comfortable about the notion of not "possessing" or "owning" music. an album isn't "my" album unless i made it myself, and even then the point is debatable. music is now attaining the status of unsubsidized public good. which is bad for the musicians, but good for everyone else.

i still download instead of streaming, but if i was 20 years younger i'd definitely be streaming.

Illuminating, Eyeball Kicks! Turns out that deep down I 'get' this more than I thought I did.

Hoovering up music comes with it's own unique set of issues though. Other than filesharing and streaming being 'bad' for musicians, there's the fact that everything collapses into flatness and excess, attention itself become scarce, while a whole bunch of new ways of measuring and monetizing user behaviors through networks have been put in place - hardly what I would describe as an unsubsidized public good.