defend the indefensible: RATTLE AND HUM by U2

superstition? like, if I confess to liking Rattle and Hum I will get hit by a car or have bad luck for 7 years?

Allmusic: this ties for third-worst U2 album based on their star system
Christgau: lists Achtung, Baby as a bomb
Rolling Stone: 3.5/5, which makes it third-worst album, amazing considering the band could basically fart into a boom mike and RS would give them 4 stars
Amazon: lol you're joking, right?

Exactly the opposite Shakey one, if you just go with the flow of any given small-community consensus, it's like accepting a superstitious belief because, well, you want to belong, you don't want to be seen as different and you are, at the end of the day, afraid to express yourself and venture out in the world as an individual.

omar little and small cat, those four sources above are, at the very least, as valid as this one.

railing against the ILM "hivemind" = strawman argument

I know it's confusing given the maturity level of the average ILX post but this isn't high school. People here aren't "going with the flow", they are agreeing because that's what they believe.

vision are you this bizarrely accusatory and conspiratorial when you talk to people in person?

i think rattle and hum is embarrassing and weak because i've listened to it, and that's what it sounds like. look at me, venturing into the world, totally unafraid to express myself

Shakey, not if you take the thread's original premise into account: it's about how ILMers think "this one is pretty bad".
small cat, there's no difference, it's just your way to give more weight to the opinions found here, it's still arbitrary.

Defend The Indefensible: Babies

I don't agree with Dan the small cat about very much but he is right on this count.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/automatic_writing/EvenanAndroidCanCry.jpg

I will say you are excellent with the type of trolling that stimulates conversation, Vision; you could give Geir a run for his money.

xp: meglolz

70s Vision = klassick

00s Vision = troll

Really? How am I a troll again small cat? I don't remember calling anyone a "deaf person"-- now that would be trolling.

he's got you there dude

okay i'm done on that front.

anyway, i just put the studio tracks on my itunes and listening to it, it makes a nice studio album as i suspected. hawkmoon is my favorite track.

it's a much more pleasant listen without the hectoring, i think the closest any tune gets to it is god pt 2.

This album is like listening to Joe Lieberman speak.

look Vision the problem is accusing everyone of being conformist mouthbreathers does not advance debate - it cuts it off. Rather than presenting an opposing viewpoint and encouraging a deeper engagement with the material in question, it merely impugns the motives of those who disagree with you. People here have listed a number of things they dislike about this album, cited specific problems, etc. You can either attempt to expose those arguments as being innacurate or wrong or misguided or what have you, or you can spell out why you think the album is actually good - but just saying "waaah you guys are all ganging up on it for no reason I'm taking my ball and going home" is childish.

Personally fwiw I haven't listened to this album in 20 years and have no real inclination to refresh my memory - what I do remember of it is prety cringeworthy. jeezus the album cover alone.

I like "Hawkmoon 269" (wtf the title though) and "Heartland" just fine, and in the right mood "All I Want Is You". The record was a heartbreaking disappointment to me at the time, but that's probably for the best, otherwise I'd have been a thirteen-year-old listening to Melissa Etheridge and T-Bone Burnett records.

yeah I never noticed the Moorcock ref before - don't remember the song at all!

Neil Tennant's tetchy, impromptu review still the best:

Rock critics liked RAH because they want a return to the traditional rock values. What they basically want is for it to be like 1969 again. It's this thing where British -- or in U2's case Irish -- groups discover the roots of American music. U2 have discovered this and they're just doing pastiches (his voice rises) and it's reviewed as a serious thing because `Dylan plays organ' on some song and B.B. King plays on some throwaway pop song `When Love Comes To Town' that could have been written by Andrew Lloyd Webber. It could be in `Starlight Express' if you ask me.

The fact is that the PSB stand against all of this, so it's quite right that people like that should slag us off. Because we hate everything that they are and stand for. We hate it because it's stultifying, it says nothing, it is big and pompous and ugly. We hate it for exactly the same reasons Johnny Rotten said he hated dinosaur groups in 1976.

Neil Tennant is big and pompous and ugly.

haha you know I don't own a single PSB release but I love Neil Tennant and always dug their singles and that review is hilarious

omar little and small cat, those four sources above are, at the very least, as valid as this one.

http://darklondon.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/wisdom.jpg

ps Vision WAHT CAMILE THNIK OF RATTLS N HUN?

i say this as one of ilx's few other u2 apologists btw

There's nothing wrong with being retro. "Rattle & Hum" failed because the songs were generally too bluesy and not diatonic enough.

Recently I realized I didn't have "Heartland" on my iPod and dug it up and put it on there. I found out it wasn't really as good as I remembered.

really like the singles on this. rest of album mostly bleh. bb king song is lame. "ok edge, play the blues" is still funny 20 years later.

FWIW, I really like U2 a lot; just not this album.

it says nothing

i thought pop folk are cool with that
funny also that he rips U2 as being pompous as tennant comes across as being super pompous in any interview i've ever read
this album does stink tho

i wrote a mocking review of the movie for my college paper and got a phone call from an angry kid who informed me that his dorm wall was covered -- covered! -- with u2 posters and i didn't know what i was talking about.

So what else did Mr. Flowers have to say.

Wow, back it up a few years, Tipsy Mothra, and it would have been ME arguing about U2 with a bunch of posters of them on my wall!...only...U2 would not have yet made such a shitty movie as this one...so um...

Right...early b-sides anyone?

really like the singles on this. rest of album mostly bleh. bb king song is lame. "ok edge, play the blues" is still funny 20 years later.

"When Love Comes To Town" was a single......

And I don't like the singles at all. Some of the non-singles were OK - "Van Diemen's Land" was great. But mostly too American and too bluesy. U2's worst album!

Agreed. Sadly, also the first proper album on CD I ever owned.

this album sucks! i kinda like it.

on the other hand, Joshua Tree is pretty awesome, and i kinda hate it!

I still love this record, or both these records, as it's a double LP.

And Neil Tennant is still an ugly, pompous, droning whiner. Most of his records are not nice to listen to. When they come on last.fm from someone else's library I have to shuffle it on. I will take no lessons from him.

Neil Tennant is still an ugly, pompous, droning whiner

OMG this is so OTM it's scary.

The Pinefox is miffed.

allmusic is exceptionally generous in their star ratings, christgau is notoriously rong much of the time, rolling stone lol, amazon lol

i say this as one of ilx's few u2 apologists btw

I'm in agreement here. I love a good bit of U2's catalog, pretty much everything from Boy to Pop... but this is not good at all. Their only big misstep before the last decade or so.

"When Love Comes To Town" was a single......

ok well the other singles. i like "desire," "angel of harlem" and "all i want is you."

And Neil Tennant is still an ugly, pompous, droning whiner. Most of his records are not nice to listen to.

The Pinefox is usually OTM but not in this case. I mean, I don't buy Neil Tennant's attack on U2 and what U2 used to stand for, or his entire pathetic "anti rockist" stance for that matter. But the guy has made a lot of really, really great music. Particularly after he struggled to dominate the charts, but got better than before at irony.

Hmmm.. I said I dislike all the singles there, which is not entirely true. "All I Want Is You" may be the greatest song on the entire album. "Desire", "Angel Of Harlem" and, most of all, "When Love Comes To Town" leave me very cold though.

XP to Ilxor: It was "Pop" that was their last misstep yet. The two albums after "Pop" have both been great. Particularly the first of the two.