ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

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Or wait, same diff, except you can take the parens off your S, cause it'll be there either way.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 17:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Indeed.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 17:52 (seventeen years ago) link

wait why would the third S be there if the second one were there?

― 69, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link

OH OH jaymc's S nvrmnd

― 69, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link

re: a billion - some time in the 1980s?

― Nasty, Brutish & Short, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

semantics question:

what's the difference between a lodger and a tenant?

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:19 (seventeen years ago) link

lodger gets a room; tenant gets the whole property (or subdivision)

― stet, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link

"lodger" implies you have a room in a house run by a doddering matron who always keeps a cut-glass bottle 1/3 full of brandy in the downstairs sitting room, as well as a breakfast table around which sit an entymologist, a bounder with a mysterious past, a fallen woman, and a retired colonel

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link

You're legally required to provide a lodger with breakfast (though most people don't bother).

― Madchen, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

re: fewer/less

I was taught the rule about countable nouns and non-countable nouns being qualified by the words 'fewer ' and 'less' respectively when I worked alongside grammar fiends of the grimly type. Since then I have noticed when people don't follow the 'rule'. For instance, the other day I noticed John Humphers on the radio - after some politician had said something about 'less criminals in prison' - deliberately repeating the phrase back to the politician, but corrected. 'Blah blah ...fewer criminals in prison, ' he said, all smug.

Thing is: once you start picking up on this rule, you notice its breakage everywhere. 'Less people...less cakes...less flowers.....less books....less computers....less biscuits....' ...and I'm thinking NO! fewer fewer fewer! (But more biscuits, please, if you don't mind.)

I should really stop caring about this rule, no? It is torture to care.

― Zoe Espera, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, it's a rubbish invented distinction that never serves to clarify, but only as a show of plumage for grammar nerds. Flout it! Do not care what they think of you!

M&S has "five items or fewer" queues and it always seems a bit like they're trying too hard.

― Alba, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, I will drop it and also stop correcting the wife every time he gets it 'wrong'. After all, this business was turning me into John Humphers.

― Zoe Espera, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:23 (seventeen years ago) link

using 'less' and 'fewer' the wrong ways just sounds stupid

no matter how much I hate john humphrys

― RJG, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I have a Word question. I'm trying to write fractions into copy and while it's happily converting 1/2 and 1/4 into nice one-character thingies, it's refusing to afford me the same privilege for 1/3. Anyone?

Also, How do I do a "degrees" sign? As in 50(degrees)c?

Grrr.

― CharlieNo4, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:45 (seventeen years ago) link

for the second question, isn't there some kind of "Insert --> Symbol..." command?

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Here's one to paste: ° or type alt+0174. There is a unicode character for 1/3 - try typing 2153 and then hitting alt-x - sounds bizarre but should work in Word. Don't know how to get it to auto-insert.

― ledge, Friday, 30 March 2007 10:58 (seventeen years ago) link

start - run - (type the following word there) charmap

that's the character map where you can find all kinds of obscure stuff to paste into other programs.

― StanM, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Long-winded way to make any fraction in Word (on Windows):

Type the numerator, hold down Alt and type 0164 on the number keypad. Let go of Alt. Type the denominator, apply the superscript style to the numerator, select the weird "currency" symbol between the numbers and change its font to Symbol (it turns into a virgule - a more slanty slash), and finally, mess about the with the point sizes of the numerator and denominator until you are happy.

If you're having trouble working out the Alt - keypad stuff, or you're not on Windows, go to somewhere like here and paste the currency symbol from there.

― Alba, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:15 (seventeen years ago) link

brilliant! it all worked. i love ilx sometimes. thanks folks.

― CharlieNo4, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Whenever I want to use unconventional characters or symbols, I always just do a Google search (e.g., for "degree symvol" or "acute accent E") and then copy and paste accordingly.

― jaymc, Friday, 30 March 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

a rubbish invented distinction

We will not get very far with naturally occurring / divine distinctions! I always get less / fewer the wrong way round (which in the US just means saying "less" all the time and forgetting about fewer entirely), but it makes perfect sense to me any time I think of the meaning of "less." It carries the "less of a mass" connotation, to me, even if I'm misusing it.

Ha, I think there might be a corresponding social / psychological shift, actually, where we increasingly think of certain countable items (especially classes of people, like "criminals") as a mass anyway! We live in a mental universe of uncountable categorical masses -- I blame YouTube!

― nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

E.g., nobody would ever misuse it the other way -- "we need fewer crime!"

― nabisco, Friday, 30 March 2007 22:14 (seventeen years ago) link

"there is plenty to see"

vs

"there are plenty of films to see"

why do both of these look right? one of them's wrong, no? argh!

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 09:56 (seventeen years ago) link

what's the context?

― the next grozart, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:01 (seventeen years ago) link

yes they're both correct.

"There are plenty to see" sounds wrong unless you say "As for films, there are plenty to see".

― the next grozart, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Is it...

King James' Bible

or

King James's Bible

?

I'd go for the latter myself as "James" is a proper noun and not a plural, but many people argue that it is the rule wherever.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:07 (seventeen years ago) link

It's pronounced James not Jameses (and it's The K J B ain't it?)

― ledge, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:12 (seventeen years ago) link

It's The King James Bible. It doesn't belong to him, it's named after him.

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:14 (seventeen years ago) link

and my context:

"There's plenty to see this Easter weekend"

"There are plenty of films to see this Easter weekend"

A writer submitted "There's plenty of films to see..." and it wrong-footed me!

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:15 (seventeen years ago) link

"there's all kinds of things i'd like to talk about" - this sounds fine to me although i know it's wrong; i could make the argument that "all kinds of things i'd like to talk about" (or "plenty of films to see") constitute(s?) One Big Thing - a mushed-together agglomeration that is conceptually singular - "plenty of films to see" is something that's happening this easter weekend - the films themselves are something to know about, but the fact that there are so many films to see is also something to know about, and in fact that is the main point of the sentence

i COULD make that argument but i mean, that would faintly ridiculous?

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Pretend that (for this example) the King James Bible belongs to King James. Like Prince Charles(')(s) ears. What is correct?

― the next grozart, Friday, 6 April 2007 02:51 (seventeen years ago) link

There's a long history of debate on this point. I'd go for Prince Charles's ears, following the simple rule that singular words ending in s take an apostrophe s, and plurals just take an apostrophe. I think that's the Chicago Manual style, as well as that of the publication I work for.

Some people say it depends on how you pronounce it. Some have other, complex rules.

― Alba, Friday, 6 April 2007 07:46 (seventeen years ago) link

is king james a plural?

no.

there's your answer.

simple, efficient and correct. next!

― grimly fiendish, Friday, 6 April 2007 09:09 (seventeen years ago) link

"The 14 animals will have two months to decide if any of the salt varieties are suitable for road use."

are suitable? is suitable? isn't "any" technically singular, being shorthand for "any one"? argh.

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link

"varieties" makes it "are", I'd say

― RJG, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:30 (seventeen years ago) link

if any of the salt is suitable

if any of the salts are suitable

― RJG, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:33 (seventeen years ago) link

b-b-but "none of us is insured for this car" is correct isn't it? so that makes no sense...

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought it was "is" but I might be wrong.

― Alba, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:36 (seventeen years ago) link

none of us are insured

what an oversight

― RJG, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:37 (seventeen years ago) link

but "none" is a contraction of "not one", therefore "is" is correct!

No? Why not? *shoots self*

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:39 (seventeen years ago) link

except none is singular

crosspost

― RJG, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:39 (seventeen years ago) link

guess it depends whether you predict only one or more than one of your salt varieties may be suitable!

― RJG, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:42 (seventeen years ago) link

i guess they could all be ok...oh bollocks.

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:44 (seventeen years ago) link

'none of us is' is correct

― braveclub, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Cuz "none" is "not one," right?
I don't know about the road salt thing. It would seem that the "is" or "are" would be referring to (modifying?) the "any" and not the "varieties," thus making "is" correct, but it sticks in my craw. Perhaps moving away from this hyper-correctness in conjugating the "to be" verb is an area where the language is evolving.
Also fading into extinction, most probably, is the word "whom," use of which I can never figure out on the fly, that is, when speaking.

― Beth Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 12:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I saw Amazing Grace last night and Wilberforce saying "to who" about three times in the space of a minute really grated! Also, he kept saying "bored of" instead of "bored with". Slack git.

― Alba, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 12:39 (seventeen years ago) link

AP style says that proper names ending in "s" just get an apostrophe to show possession, and that's it - I like it cause it's more efficient innit

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 14:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd have gone with Prince Charles' ears on instinct.

― Madchen, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

"All," "any," "most," "none," and "some" can be either singular or plural, depending on what they're referring to.

"All of the milk is gone" vs. "All of the candy bars are gone."

"None of the crowd was left" vs. "None of the fans were left."

― jaymc, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

not one of the fans was left

vs

none of the fans were left

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 12 April 2007 09:18 (seventeen years ago) link

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