Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

straw dicking

is that anything like shrimping

no but shrimpdicking sounds like something to try too

Posts where the poster advocates shrimping serious dick and totally means to

like butterfly shrimp?

mark my words, surgical procedure for butterfly dick = future fad

Vic perry, more like dick parry the saxophonist for pink floyd

It's hard to know whether Lou Christie's Lightnin' Strikes was intended as a parody of the Neanderthal sexual politics of the era, or if the egregious douchebag portrayed in the lyric was supposed to be appealingly roguish.
Either way, great song.

xxxp - if you're talking Dire Straits, then the "everyday bloke" speaking in Money For Nothing comes across as a hell of a dick. I'm not sure he cares. Written by both Knopfler and Sting you have to hope they didn't share the same beliefs. I think?

What about 'one of us' by ABBA? always loved the song for its musicality but knowing the lyrics were written by the guys for the girls to sing makes me wonder where the stakes were at that point.

speaking of ABBA we only actually "know" the girl in "Does Your Mother Know" is flirting because the pervy older guy says she is

Climax Blues Band, "I Love You."

"Ooh babe, you got what it takes [basically, enabling my alcoholism] so I made you my wife."

heard one of these in a bar earlier tonight: Billy Joel - Tell Her About It. "But a nice girl wouldn't tell you what you should do". ugh

God help me, but this might be the one time I ever defend Billy Joel. I wouldn't say it's in any way good, and that line could've been phrased more elegantly, but the lyrics of that song are about as far from dickish as it gets (facilitate communication with your partner, don't rely on her to remind you that you need to communicate, do what you can to shore up trust). A more a propos title for the Innocent Man album might've been Couples Therapy.

xxxxxp that's more like Knopfler and Sting's self-congratulatory projection of what ordinary shmucks who deliver microwave ovens for a living and suchlike, must think about rock stars.

guess i'm not suggesting that the sentiment of the song itself is particularly dickish; his intentions are sincere, i get it. it's just so smug and presumptuous. even if i needed that kind of advice, i wouldn't want it laid out to me like that.

x-post

BB otm altho iirc the claim is that the lyrics were taken pretty much verbatim from a real-life prole observed in the wild. Christ that song is horrible. I only discovered earlier this year that the full version is like 15 minutes long & features repeated use of the word "faggot", that was a shit day :-(

xpost Yes, the idea that he's the one who has it all figured out is a little dickish on BJ's part, I will agree.

to Vast Halo:

Indeed!!! with Lightnin' Strikes. Glad you brought this one up, because this sent me off for Lou Christie info. I already loved the hit singles, especially "I'm gonna make you mine," but what a career!

In terms of the awareness of the sexual double-standard question, I presume total awareness. Not least of the reasons for this is finding out that his career-long co-writer, Twyla Herbert, was a woman in her mid-40s - I have to figure she knew exactly what she was doing. Not that I necessarily needed this info - the lyrical juxtapositions are so startling that nobody could miss the irony.

Very sad that nobody seems to have interviewed Twyla herself before she died in 2009. Did anyone try?

Oh, and the guitar solo is Velvet Underground worthy.

despite the title's claim, "I Don't Care Anymore" sounds like it is being shouted in a back garden at 3am in violation of a restraining order

it's just so smug and presumptuous. even if i needed that kind of advice, i wouldn't want it laid out to me like that.

'Tell Her About It' being framed as advice to his younger self makes it seem a bit less dickish imo ('you know I don't like watching anybody make the same mistakes I made')

Agree 'Just The Way You Are' is indefensible, tho

I'd prefer to think he really is singing that song to a clown mask on a pillow.

I only discovered earlier this year that the full version is like 15 minutes long & features repeated use of the word "faggot", that was a shit day :-(

― Finn McCoolit (wins), Saturday, April 4, 2015 10:57 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Money for Nothing" was routinely aired uncensored when the song was new, but I haven't heard it without "faggot" being bleeped out in the last decade. Every live version I've heard, even from when the record was still new, changes it to "queenie".

I love 'Money for Nothing', I should stop reading this thread before I feel compelled to defend all the songs that are being mentioned

has this article been linked to on ilx yet?

http://africasacountry.com/the-unexpected-popularity-of-dire-straits-in-north-african-tuareg-communities/

I had no idea that the unedited "Money for Nothing" was slipping out of familiarity! There was an outcry when the broadcasting industry association proposed a ban four years ago. I kind of love the song in its dickish self-congratulation but it's def dickish.

supposedly Knopfler took all of the lyrics from shit he heard in a Montgomery Ward's or something one afternoon. conversations he heard people having in the television section I think

Ha, the story is quoted in the decision that I just found, which was softened after any outcry:

The lead character in “Money for Nothing” is a guy who works in the hardware department in a television/custom kitchen/refrigerator/microwave appliance store. He’s singing the song. I wrote the song when I was actually in the store. I borrowed a bit of paper and started to write the song down in the store. I wanted to use a lot of the language that the real guy actually used when I heard him, because it was more real. It just went better with the song, it was more muscular. I actually used “little faggot,” but there are a couple of good “motherfuckers” in there. I wanted to do a second version that way but I never had time. I’d still love to be able to do it. Even if just the band had it, because it would be the real version. I mean that is the way people speak. I think people still get the general idea. You can use other words that will suggest the general feel.

It also has to do with the context in which a song’s received. If we walk into a hardware store and hear someone say, “Look at that motherfucker” it means nothing to us, but if you hear it in a pop song …

If you hear it in New York it means nothing. If you’re living in Tallahassee then maybe it’s a different thing. There is no way that I would expect people to receive all that in the spirit in which it was intended. They’d probably think I was just being vulgar.

http://www.cbsc.ca/english/decisions/2011/110831.php

*an outcry

M. Parkinson: Tell me about “Money for Nothing”, which is one of the most famous songs you wrote and where that came from.

M. Knopfler: Well, I was in New York, and I was in a, in a, in a kitchen appliance store, um, ah, there you go, like you are, you know [laughter in the crowd], and it had a window. There was a kitchen display in the window and there’d be a row of microwaves or, you know, cupboards and things like that, and, at the back of the store, there was a big wall of televisions, all, all tuned to MTV. And, um, there was some bonehead who worked for the store, a great big macho guy with a, you know with a checked shirt on and a cap and a pair of work boots, and he had been delivering stuff at the back and he, so he was watching MTV, and he was saying all these great lines about, you know, “that ain’t working” you know, “that’s the way you do it”, stuff like that, “what’s that Hawaiian noises”, he was saying. So, I just thought it was so classic, that I went and asked for a pen and paper and started writing the lines down, you know? And then when I started putting it to music, again that whole finger and thumb thing [Mark Knopfler started playing his guitar on stage while sitting next to the host. The familiar sound of the opening rhythm of “Money for Nothing” can be heard with clapping in the background].

Minor point of information on "Money for Nothing."

My understanding has always been that the story behind Sting's involvement is as follows: he was brought in to sing backing vocals. He ended up singing the "I want my MTV" bit using a bit of melody from "Don't Stand So Close to Me," hence is co-writer credit.

Ah, those chummy days when globally famous millionaires calculatedly wanted to be just dudes hanging out.

On Easter, I happened to be in a Christian church where they sang "Oh death, where is thy sting?" And all I could think about was the Joe Queenan line, "Oh Sting, where is thy death?"

Agree 'Just The Way You Are' is indefensible, tho

I once read an interview in which Joel mentioned that although he feels compelled to perform it when he plays live, he hates singing Just the Way You Are, because "I divorced the woman I wrote it for".
I admired his honesty, I must say; it's so rare for stars of his calibre to demonstrate any semblance of self-awareness.

lol

has enough time passed to put all of The 20/20 Experience here?

If the Temptations sang "Beauty is Only Skin Deep" to a woman's face they'd get slapped, I think today they would get charged with bullying or harassment or something it is so mean

The protagonist in that song basically says "you don't have a pretty face but I don't care; you're a great person and that means more to me". Most people wouldn't be that blunt, it's true, but I don't see how it could be seen as bullying or harassment. If anything, the fact that it seems mean probably reflects the amount of importance we place on a woman's appearance. (It wouldn't seem as harsh if a woman sang it to a man, I don't think.)

That little Clampett got his own cement pond
That little Clampett, he's a millionaire

The protagonist in that song basically says "you don't have a pretty face but I don't care; you're a great person and that means more to me". Most people wouldn't be that blunt, it's true, but I don't see how it could be seen as bullying or harassment. If anything, the fact that it seems mean probably reflects the amount of importance we place on a woman's appearance. (It wouldn't seem as harsh if a woman sang it to a man, I don't think.)

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:13 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe? no one seems to mind my funny valentine sung to either genre

My Funny Valentine has the singer addressing him/herself - sung into a mirror basically.

maybe originally but it's doubtful every one of the 3287893 total performers took that interpretation

I recall Charles Willeford's main character (not a nice man by the way) in Burnt Orange Heresy (1971) found it incredible that anyone could regard that song (MFV) as anything but thinly veiled aggression. I'm sure he phrased it more interestingly than that, but I don't have the book in front of me.

It's well known to be an expression of Lorenz Hart's self-loathing. When it's sung by a man it's about the man. When it's sung by a woman - it's still about the man. The preamble part of the song which is usually not sung establishes that it's about a "gent".

When it's sung by a man it's about the man. When it's sung by a woman - it's still about the man.

― everything, Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:02 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the height of undickishness

"the preamble part of the song which is usually not sung"

Not to go on about it unnecessarily, but I do think it's a fascinating lyric. It really does make more sense, when sung by a man, to be be interpreted as introspective self-mockery.

The first time I heard this song was as the b-side of Oliver's Army - I used to listen to it a lot. The a-side of the single is credited to Elvis Costello and the Attractions while the b-side is just credited to Elvis Costello. So there's a sickly-looking, anti-glamour icon of self-loathing, isolated from his gang. Not that E.C. doesn't have more than his fair share of passive aggressive attack songs but he's also self-critical and in this case I'm pretty sure he was deliberately trying to interpret the song as being about himself.

The preamble part of the song also establishes that the protagonist views the subject with admiration and that the later part is generally good-natured. Take it or leave it - if it's omitted as it almost always is, then it unimportant but it does display the songwriter's original intended tone.

"Behold the way our fine feathered friend,
His virtue doth parade
Thou knowest not, my dim-witted friend
The picture thou hast made
Thy vacant brow, and thy tousled hair
Conceal thy good intent
Thou noble upright truthful sincere,
And slightly dopey gent"

Is the preamble really usually omitted? Ella Fitzgerald included it, which for me feels like the definitive reading.

It's hard to find any other versions with it except for Ella and the original take from the movie Babes in Arms.

I was obviously being facetious about the bullying/harassment thing

The moral of the song isn't wrong but I would say a guy telling his girl "a pretty face you may not possess" is a dick move you can't argue with

I woulda said "More Than Words" but I sure would hope they had at least an inkling of how shitty they were being

I was obviously being facetious about the bullying/harassment thing

Ha, wasn't sure.

"Spaceboy" by the Smashing Pumpkins. a song ostensibly about/dedicated to Bill Corgan's younger brother Jesse. he was born with a developmental disability and Bill had to take care of him quite a bit. he related his own sense of abandonment and isolation to his handicapped brother, who was bullied and insulted by people of all ages constantly, in front of both of them. i always thought it was sort of tin-eared and in bad taste to compare being the weird kid to having a chromosomal disorder.

Not to go on about it unnecessarily, but I do think it's a fascinating lyric. It really does make more sense, when sung by a man, to be be interpreted as introspective self-mockery.

― everything, Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was also being somewhat facetious but as someone who's been on the receiving end of dudes filtering everything about how they relate to others through their own introspective self-mockery/loathing, it truly is the absolute height and pinnacle of dickishness even before it inevitably collapses into overt dickishness