Metallica - C or D?

I have a hard time taking that story at face value, given how long it took to come out and how "evil villain beard-stroking" it is.

really kinda don't care about what caused it at this point - though it will always lead to entertaining speculation so there's that.

My theory is it was more of a James/Lars collabo while Kirk sat in the corner listening to Erik SAtie on headphones

Gotta admit, the bass playing almost always sounds like an afterthought in tons of metal. Yeah, it's definitely there in dudes like Cliff and galloping along in Iron Maiden or Motorhead, but darned if I can think of what the bass even sounds like in Judas Priest or Slayer or other fast stuff or whatever.

yeah it's not a genre known for its bass. although i seem to recall some pretty neat licks in the odd megadeth song.

No wonder I don't like metal much. Imagine Sabbath without Geezer!!!!

!!! There's tons of great bass in metal. It largely depends as to what subgenre you're looking at here. and while there are many metal bands where you don't notice the bass I don't really think that's more true of metal than, basically, any other genre (other than maybe funk)

In Slayer, the bass is nondescript because Tom just doubles the guitars (he's not much of a bass player); same is true of Deicide for the same reasons (Glen sucks at it). but stuff like Death had tons of technical counterpoint bass riffs, Cryptopsy had this crazy 'boingy' bass sound that was a defining aspect of them in their prime...and the entire stoner/doom metal genre, you'll pretty much get written off as boring if you don't have a bass player that can do some interesting shit, ie Sleep. Alex Webster of Cannibal Corpse does some fun bass shit, hell there's any number of technical death bands that have crazy bass playing (ie Desecrativity). even black metal often has a lot of fun, simple catchy bass riffs (ie Mayhem's De Mysteriis, Emperor's Anthems, etc)

I mean yeah sure there are a lot of bands where the bass player is some schlub just doubling guitars but it's hardly something I'd say is 'default'

Maybe it's because the bass is so often distorted or fuzzed or in a lot of ways resembling another guitar, even if it's not doubling the guitars? I know there are exception to everything, but for the longest time metal has seemed really ruled by guitarists and killer drummers, with the bass almost an afterthought.

The thing with ...And Justice For All is that it doesn't just lack bass guitar, it lacks bass frequency. There's countless metal tracks where the bass is doubling what the guitars play and blends in with the overall sound so that you can't pick it out, but at least the bass is EQ'd so it occupies the lower end of the sound spectrum.

It's weird that they don't remix it. It might actually sell them a few albums.

Yeah, I'm surprised that they haven't remixed it. After all, if the bass guitar is present on the master tapes and the weird sound of ...And Justice For All is down to the weird mixing/EQ'ing, then it's possible that someone could go in there and make it sound better. I suspect that Ulrich or Hetfield have some kind of weird reason for not doing it, though.

The band owns their entire back catalogue now, and is in the process of starting a massive reissue/remaster campaign. So I'm hoping Justice will be given a significant spruce-up.

I sort of like the sterility of Justice's mix, it fits in with the gothic songwriting. I grew up with it sounding that way anyhow, it would be really strange to hear a new version of such familiar music.

I can only assume that they'll reissue Justice with lots of re-recorded fixes, new vocal tracks including a new voiceover on "To Live Is To Die" from the late Lou Reed, and the St Anger snare sound Protooled in.

Agree with chap; Justice sounds how it's supposed to sound. To me it fits just fine alongside other sterile, ultra-dry art-thrash albums of the era - Prong's Beg to Differ, Coroner, etc. I'm interested in a reissue if it comes with, say, contemporaneous liveage, but not if it's "now with bass, so you crybaby fucks will leave us alone."

I'd be happy with a 2CD edition: original mix on CD 1, remixed edition on CD 2. For what it's worth, I don't mind the way ...And Justice For All sounds as it is, but I'd still be interested in hearing a remixed, fuller-sounding version.

Because of bass talk, xposting myself from the Rolling Metal thread: Scott Clendenin, bassist on Death's final album The Sound of Perseverance passed away yesterday; his performance on said album is one of the reasons it sounds so phenomenal.

http://loudwire.com/former-death-bassist-scott-clendenin-dies-at-47/

Be sure to play that live clip embedded in Richard Christy's tweet. Wicked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=22&v=Xui06jwWaAM

So weird. What have I been doing wrong? Anyway, it's "Master of Puppets" with the snare sound replaced by the "St. Anger" snare sound.

It's that t= part, and you beat me by 23 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xui06jwWaAM

oh dear lord

Now replace the the snare with duck quacks and I'll be doubly impressed.

sounds like you're cranking Puppets in your bedroom and your dad is banging on the door with his fist to get you to turn it down.

is there any group of superfans that appears to hate the band they supposedly like more than Metallica?

haha good question.

Kiss, Van Halen, GNR...

weezer.

https://metallica.com/blog/news/429181/hardwired-to-self-destruct-available-november-18-2

The single's not bad actually, though obviously the lyrics are terrible, and obviously it's a total Battery/Damage Inc retread. Sounds like the production might be a good deal closer to how it should be this time though.

Gotta say a double disc Metallica album in 2016 sounds like a fucking slog.

there's a dedicated thread for their new record, laughing at press shots & album cover etc. Metallica ARE...Hardwired…To Self-Destruct

Ah, thanks!

I got really into the Cocaine and Rhinestones podcast, so I sought out Coe's other podcast, Your Favorite Band Sucks, which is just him and his friends essentially roasting a band and/or sacred cow. The Metallica one is vicious enough that they say the entire show could just be a 30 part series on that band alone, and they go through most of the first of two parts without even getting to the stuff they had outlined in advance. But along with the plagiarism stuff, which maybe I knew of but never sought out, or the band's original bassist, who the band used for money and quickly discarded, I heard for the first time about the supposed real reason that Mustaine was kicked out. The story always went that it was his substance abuse/drinking, but of course the whole band was wasted all the time, so that didn't really add up. The alleged real reason is that Mustaine supposedly had a dog to protect his weed stash at home (he apparently dabbled in dealing), and one day brought his dog to practice. Because it kept barking they put it outside, where it supposedly scratched someone's car. Hetfield being a stupid dickhead allegedly kicked the dog, which, rightfully, sparked a fistfight with Mustaine, and that was that. Who knew? Not me.

This anecdote is on Mustaine's Wikipedia page so it's more or less general general knowledge. Also there's apparently some time between that incident and his sacking.

Your Favorite Band Sucks, which is just him and his friends essentially roasting a band and/or sacred cow

i hate this

Yeah no kidding

I've listened to maybe two eps and it largely seems like a goof, kind of like Mike and Tom Eat Snacks. It's like they're playing characters, and at least in the background I have no problem with people playing dumb and ripping on bands they often clearly know are better than they say. My player started a more recent episode, a Christmas episode, and one guy blurts out at the beginning "Christmas is the best holiday." And a few minutes later says "Can I correct something? Christmas is the worst holiday." It's just dumb time-filling trash-talking, like, I dunno, I can't think of anything like it ...

(Needless to say, I don't think I have ever checked out Dave Mustaine's wiki page)

Plagiarism? Do tell

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4F0skwb__A

yeah they totally ripped off all those proto-metal Willie Dixon songs

Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXUYGraNtHU&list=RDVXUYGraNtHU&start_radio=1&t=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXUYGraNtHU&list=RDVXUYGraNtHU&start_radio=1&t=1

dear god, if that's what they stole Sanitarium from, thank god they improved it

Ugh. Anyway, that's "Tapping into the Emotional Void" by Excel. I saw some more. Supposedly back in their early days the band used to cover songs from the NWOBHM but not reveal they were covers?

Here's another one that people cite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OzAo1lsvr8

think people are confusing plagiarism with "used a common chord progression" but

I love what they did with those licks. I saw some video, maybe a 3-parter, about all the stuff they ripped off, and some of it was pretty tenuous. Other stuff, I got no problem with it, but like Zep it's there.

That Sanitarium thing is not some "common chord progression." It's pretty specific, and I think Hetfield has admitted he copped it.

surprised no mention of Diamond Head's "Dead Reckoning", which they pretty much admitted aping for "Seek and Destroy"

it's a pretty straight forward open string voicing that keeps the fingers in a fixed position as they move up the fretboard. hell, did Seven Mary Three also rip off the same song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an0VNmQrO0k

anyway, Sund4r to thread, he can give his thoughts way better than my amateur, non-studied ass can

anyway just sayin Metallica knows what they nicked but lord I think they nicked from better sources. like an assload of Diamond Head on KEA.

I can see Excel for "Enter Sandman" in that the drum beat and the build from quiet to heavy both follow.

Lotta Venom in Metallica, too. Like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbldM7JEIeE

What's funny is that the comments suggest Kurt Cobain ripped it off for "Teen Spirit," which is silly. But you can def. hear bits of "Seek and Destroy around the 1:30 mark.

I always figured the standing up thing is just because everyone else gets to stand up and the drummer is always hidden behind the drums, more of a showpersonship thing.

yeah, plus he has been doing that for decades, so that would scan. there was an ep of Beavis and Butthead where they showed For Whom the Bell Tolls from the Black album tour and Beavis kept yelling at Lars to quit standing up and sit down and play the drums like he was supposed to.