This is the thread where I try and summarise Cerebus

oh gosh

Bearing in mind his relationship with medicine, I think it must be fairly serious to make him go. He's still refusing pain relief there, apparently.

how old is he?

he didn't check in for the hand thing either, rather for abdominal pain...

xp 58

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hut7FmavBa8/VQfETGN3UsI/AAAAAAAAOGk/zmxtaQmAWlI/s1600/sim_hospital_march_2015.jpg

Goes into surgery in the next 10 minutes.

Moment of Cerebus site says surgical intervention to clear a blockage. Intestinal blockage is totally ungodly excruciating. I can see that driving even the most bloody-minded antimedicinist to the ER. IDK if they have to do a resection or what.

They updated again-- it's volvulus of the colon (essentially, a twist in the intestine creating an impassible point). That is some agony right there. They're doing a bowel resection surgery. I've had that. It sucks, and i'm guessing they will have to do it in two stages, with a temporary colostomy bag in between the two procedures.

I'm not real clear on how the hell these twists occur in someone's guts...

Well, if G-d is paying attention, Dave certainly showed Him how tough he is.

goddamn, that's terrible.

a little part of me hopes he has some kind of epiphany from this... but I'm not getting my hopes up. It bothers me that someone who did something great which was v important to young me is more than likely going to grow old and die a sad figure of folly with their work swept out of the canon as a result

he is a v curious figure, I think it's really hard to predict how his work will be viewed once he's gone

on its own merit, I hope

I admittedly own all of Cerebus but have been procrastinating reading it for way too long.

I've never finished it and don't intend to tbh (I stopped at Rick's Story, which is great and feels like enough of an ending for my purposes).

Sim's contributions to the medium are hard to gauge - dude was certainly groundbreaking, just from a business standpoint, but also in form and content. And I can't really fathom how any fan of comics could look at peak period Cerebus and not concede that it's the result of a master of the medium working in top form. But (as has been pointed out here before iirc) there's a lot of elements of his work that limit its appeal and impact - the constant industry in-jokes, his personality/politics bleeding into the material in such a literal way, the impenetrability of long stretches of text etc. You can point to other self-published b&w comics that came out in his wake, you can point to various (mostly parodic) comics that took Cerebus as some kind of inspiration, you can point to other people tackling similar long-form storytelling, but I dunno he just doesn't seem like one of those universally revered figures to me that everybody in the industry acknowledges as a giant. Maybe that's because he just burned so many bridges, maybe it's because his signature opus is such an outlier in so many ways, or some combination thereof.

Yeah, I can't really imagine people caring about all of Cerebus, but maybe eventually one or two of the phonebooks will settle into "classic" status. Like I can imagine "Jaka's Story" taught in some kind of graphic novels undergrad class. Especially if Cerebus somewhow ends up reprinted by another (bigger?) publisher...which of course would probably only happen after Dave dies...Right now is all of it even properly in print?

Dave talked about a deal with Kim Thompson to republish but that died when Kim did I guess. There's probably too much water under the bridge with Gary Groth - I have memories of TCJ being a real bone of contention because of an interview? - for it to happen with Fanta without Kim.

I think Dave's legacy will be as maybe the greatest letter that wasn't Eisner, and maybe even better than him. I think the problem with Cerebus itself is that it's a sustained narrative. It needs commitment from the buyer and I just don't see that happening in Archive editions or whatever outside of existing fans; and then runs the problem that Vol 1 is very patchy and wouldn't necessarily sell well enough to make a company think it's a viable idea. Maybe if you started with HS and then did a prequel volume like they've done with Walt & Skeezix? To overcome aversion to Reads and the... slightness... of Women you might want to do all of Mothers & Daughters as one volume.

So there's a way to package it, and a way to sell it, but unfortunately I don't think either have the commercial return. I think Dave could well end up like Ditko - admired, but dismissed as going wacko and all work after a certain period just forgotten.

i would guess dave puts the whole thing up on the web for free when he dies, the end.

Sim's argument to Kim that the first volume that should be separately collected/published was the Hemingway one was so smdh stupid

agree w aldo that there's definitely a barrier-to-entry thing w new readers - there's no obvious, easy entry point, which is something I can recall people remarking on as far back as Church and State (ie that you had to go back and read all the much inferior/clumsy early satire stuff in the first book to understand who half the cast of Church and State even was). Which was true for me, I started buying issues midway through Church and State I and then went back to High Society (the first "phone book" I purchased) and then went back to the beginning.

Cerebus will move into the public domain after Dave's death (or Dave & Gerhard's deaths, by another account). I wonder if any publisher will take a stab at republishing any of it then. Access to the (surviving) Preney film will be a big question mark.

i think his legacy lies mainly in (as noted by aldo) his amazing lettering technique and his (closely related) exquisite use of time/panel meter whatever you want to call it.

that painstaking metric quality i can only think of ware mastering to the same extent (but I'm kind of out of the loop)

what is the Preney film?

original printing press negatives

It'll go on the web. And it absolutely won't (and shouldn't) be forgotten. It's too unique. Too exciting. Too problematic. It's the perfect book for the cannon.

Moreover, there's too much meta-information for it now to be studied. Ditko won't leave behind a commentary.

Preney Print & Litho was the printing company that printed the comic for most of its lifetime, and went out of business pretty soon after Cerebus was done iirc. I seem to recall somewhere reading that Dave got the archive of film from which the issues & phone books were printed after Preney closed. The film from the High Society issues was destroyed in a fire in 2012. xxxp

thx

According to AMOC Dave has to go back for more surgery and the diagnosis won't be known until they've removed parts of his colon, but he looks chirpy enough.

I originally found out about this from a Tom Spurgeon blog post this morning. Looks like among the other comics news sites, only Rich Johnston has posted about it. I'll be interested to see if and how the other sites report this, or if Dave is so non grata that they just won't bother.

It's definitely a major surgery, but I feel like it's not an immediately life-threatening one that people would feel the need to cover, unless it was something putting him into financial hardship? Maybe that'd be different in the current news cycle panopticon, but I can imagine a lot of people in comics have had surgery without press coverage.

Iirc you can die from a volvulus? Dogs certainly do all the time.

I didn't mean to say it wasn't serious, just that I can imagine a lot of people in comics have had serious medical issues without it making it to the press.

Quite true

Sim is quite the self-publicist, in his own strange way, and tends to provoke fascination in those who know about him.

People always way overstate the unreadability of the first phonebook imo. It's a hell of a lot cruder than what's to come, but it's fun! I started with it, and it worked out fine for me. In fact I like it better than quite a lot of the post Jaka's Story stuff.

Yep, agreed re: the first book. And I find High Society kind of overrated -- too many insider jokes, too much dull slastick. Church & State through Jaka is the imperial phase for me.

Church and State is just so dramatic! Bran's suicide has to be one of the best Shocking Twists in all comics.

Yeah, Jaka's story is the peak of his abilities. More or less a perfect comic.

It's the only book where Dave applies the right levels of Dave to the story.

I prefer both volumes of Church and State. the "punchline" of Jaka's story is a bit much

I'll take High Society and Church & State over Jaka's Story. I appreciate it as a peak of technique but never particularly liked it.

fwiw I don't think the first volume is bad or anything - it's enjoyable and absolutely gets better as it goes along, feel like it really hits its stride when Lord Julius enters the picture. But if you aren't familiar with 70s sword n sorcery tropes or have any idea where the book is headed a new reader might be befuddled at what the fuss is all about.

The old "Swords of Cerebus" version of the first volume is cool with Sim's original commentary from then (and before he went down that path). The Beguiled knock-off is great.

Right now is all of it even properly in print?

Nope, several volumes are out of print. Sim has been Kickstarting limited edition prints of original art to fund restoration work on High Society and Church & State.

Dave talked about a deal with Kim Thompson to republish but that died when Kim did I guess.

No, Dave publicly dicked Kim around for weeks, making him jump through ridiculous hoops and negotiate in public (while also ignoring Eric Reynold’s upfront offer to publish the Death Of Alex Raymond book), at the same time that he was privately negotiating with Ted Adams to reprint the work that Kim was pitching to print. The IDW deal was announced 8 months before Kim’s death.

There's probably too much water under the bridge with Gary Groth - I have memories of TCJ being a real bone of contention because of an interview? - for it to happen with Fanta without Kim.

Sim always noted how he and Groth enjoyed each other’s company while they were tearing strips off each other in public; if Groth was interested in publishing Cerebus, I don’t think that would be an issue. He’s not, though.

The last Sim interview in the Journal was by Tom Spurgeon in 1996; this was some months after the “Dave Sim: Our Hitler?” op-ed under a Bill Willingham painting of Sim that Sim purchased and framed.

I think Dave's legacy will be as maybe the greatest letter that wasn't Eisner, and maybe even better than him.

Eisner or Kanegson?

Maybe if you started with HS and then did a prequel volume like they've done with Walt & Skeezix?

This is exactly what Kim Thompson was pitching; Sim instead, partway through the weeks of negotiations, insisted they start with Going Home, and get it a good review in the New York Times*, before he would allow them to reprint another volume of his choosing.

*or get it on the NYT bestseller list and displayed in a NYC gallery, or something – Shakey may remember better.

i would guess dave puts the whole thing up on the web for free when he dies, the end.

a) Considering how badly the “putting High Society in digital / on the web” went, there is no possibility Sim will develop a plan for this in the next few years.

b) Anyone in the world will be able to reprint it, because:

Cerebus will move into the public domain after Dave's death (or Dave & Gerhard's deaths, by another account).

Gerhard sold his entire interest in Cerebus back to Sim several years ago, in order to not have to deal with him in business again.

Access to the (surviving) Preney film will be a big question mark.

The digital restoration project that’s been going over the past year will obviously supersede this. Maybe the guy that owns most of the original art but won’t allow it to be scanned will open a gallery in his house, to compete with the one in Sim’s house.

It'll go on the web. And it absolutely won't (and shouldn't) be forgotten. It's too unique. Too exciting. Too problematic. It's the perfect book for the cannon.

http://www.umich.edu/~csie/comicart/Cerebus61p18.jpg

Gerhard sold his entire interest in Cerebus back to Sim several years ago, in order to not have to deal with him in business again.

Did he relinquish his copyright in the work or just sell back his half of A-V? Dave's wiki page says public domain after his death; the Cerebus wiki page says after Dave AND Ger's deaths (citing a 2004 Village Voice story, which may have been sloppily fact-checked).

Well, 2004 was before they split, anyway. Not certain if they now pay each other a royalty-like share of C&S -> Last Day trade sales (for Ger from Dave) and art prints with characters, not backgrounds, in them (for Dave from Ger), but AIUI the intellectual property is 100% Sim’s now. (Hence him building a museum in his house, setting up trusts for his lawyer to get fans to run it when he dies, etc etc.)

Dave Sim Responds to Expressed Publishing Interest from Fantagraphics

Mea culpa sic, I had forgotten how one sided the 'deal' negotiations had been. That said, as that link shows, a lot of it is Dave indulging in Dave Classic Whataboutery - "Based on what I think about Fanta I think they'd only be looking for this market, and if they're looking for this market then this is the most obvious book if they're only willing to do a one book 'suck it and see' deal based on sales, which I assume they are, because why wouldn't you, right? And then if that was their logic, here's some other books published in that same ball park by other people and here's what I think is wrong with them; and I'd probably get treated the same way, so I don't think this is something I'll go along with."

Yeah, Ger sold everything to Dave. AIUI there aren't any royalty payments.

The Sim kickstarters aren't about funding reprints, they're about him living hand to mouth. The targets for income from each one were set on what he needs to get by and the extra raised has gone on other 'needs' - the first one paid for him fixing the foundations to the Off-White House, for example. The restoration is being done as a favour by fans with one exception thus far; some special prints were sold as part of the most recent one (CAN3) to fund some of the most time consuming work for 9(?) pages in very poor condition.

It's one fan and one person who's never read Cerebus, and they're being paid.