Oum Kalthoum, Om Kolthom, Om Kalsoum, Omm Kalsoum, Omme Kolsoum, Oom Koolsum, Oum Kalthoum, Oum Kalthum, Oum Kalsoum, Oum Kaltsoum, Oum Kolthoum, Oum Koulsoum, Oum Kulthum, Oum Kulthume, Um Kalthoum,

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Where do you live?

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 January 2003 01:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Philadelphia, PA. I bought these at one of the many Israeli (or possibly Israeli-American) owned record/stereo equipment stores in center city.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 31 January 2003 01:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I never got back to you re: the 1920's recordings and their times.

From Vol. II of the "Anthologie de la Musique Arabe" Oum Kalthoum CD series: Kam Baatna (1926) 7'25; Dzikra Saad (1926) 4'30; Ya Assiya Elhagr (1927) 6'48; Ala Anni El Hagr (1927) 6'00, etc.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 31 January 2003 01:37 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
Here is an active site* where Listen to Om Kolsoom mp3s.

*Unlike about a dozen great Arabic music audio sites I had bookmarked long ago, which have either disappeared, no longer work, or now charge money.

A Music Consumer, Tuesday, 4 March 2003 02:18 (seventeen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
yesterday i picked up an LP copy (french pressing) of Fakkarouni (it says it's from '71). i don't own much arabic music, so i'm trying to digest it now as it's a completely new genre for me. the strings are pretty neat. snakey and squirmy. and at times it seems like either the strings or her vocals might be improvised, but they're not because they're exactly in sync at many moments. each of the two songs takes up a side of the record, so they're pretty long.

my favorite part of the album comes in the intro to the first song where there's an electric guitar playing the lead melody. it's got a clean tone, and almost reminds me of either surf music (yes i know dick dale was heavily influenced from his lebanese upbringing) or some of the guitar leads in a Morricone western. i guess i like this now because it's the most western, recognizable element of the music. something i can grasp onto. it's also neat because, the guitar being fretted, you can't get many of the semitones you would be able to get from a violin or oud.

btw. Rockist: you're A Music Consumer and DeRayMi? i always thought there were two big salsa lovers on the board, and now i find it's just you?

JasonD (JasonD), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link

the strings are pretty neat. snakey and squirmy. and at times it seems like either the strings or her vocals might be improvised, but they're not because they're exactly in sync at many moments.

The music (by Mohammed Abdel Wahab) and lyrics are both pre-composed, but there is room for melodic, and other types of improvisation, by Oum Kaltoum. Also, Oum Kalthoum frequently would repeat verses or longer passages in response to audience requests to hear them again (or simply in response to her sense of the crowd's mood); and part of the challenge would be to sing the same thing again, but change it in effective ways. I don't think that her orchestra would have had much difficulty staying in sync with her improvisation, since (a) they seem to have had certain conventional little sound squiggles they could fall back on and (b) they worked with her so extensively, and would have included musicians who had been with her for decades, probably.

Keep in mind that this is late in her career, and her voice is not as flexible or powerful as it was when she was younger.

Some other recordings that include electric guitar: Alf Leyla, We Marret el Aym (sometimes: Daret el Ayam, etc. etc.), Inta Omri.

("A Music Consumer" was an abortive name change, and yes DeRayMi is an earlier screen name, changed in a futile effort to stop putting out so much information that could identify who I am in real life.)

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 31 March 2003 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

RS – Simon Shaheen has been performing music by Mohamed Abdel Wahab & Oum Kulthoum. Did you get to see any of those shows?
I think he’s releasing an album of that late this year and mounting a larger tour for it than the few shows he did at end of last year/beginning of this year.

H (Heruy), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 08:03 (seventeen years ago) link

H, Thanks, I haven't heard about that. Maybe I shouldn't say this but I find Simon Shaheen's approach to things a bit dry. Maybe he tries too hard to treat this music seriously (kind of like Munir Bachir, though maybe as not as extreme), to the point where some of the juice is lost. I haven't checked him out for a while, though, so I might be tempted to give this a try. I do appreciate the work his has done to promote Arabic music, including his organization of the Maharajan (sp?) festival in Brooklyn (though either that has stopped, or no one is making an effort to keep the mailing list up-to-date); but his own music has mostly left me cold. I kind of liked a CD he did with Ali Jihad Racy (who I also generally find to be "too dry" as a musician).

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 12:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure Simon Shaheen did an album of Abdel Wahab songs a while ago, and I wasn't too taken with it.

If anyone wonders who I consider to be not-dry oudists, I give my usual examples: Riad el-Sounbatti (whose CD of taksim is once again unavailable, so I've missed out for now), Mohammed el-Qassabji (though I haven't heard much of his solo playing at all), and Farid el Atrache (despite his over-reliance on the same formula for most solos).

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 2 April 2003 01:40 (seventeen years ago) link

how do you rate Hamza El Din? pretty beautiful stuff, i think.

JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 01:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm more hesitant about saying anything bad about Hamza el Din, but he's not really a favorite. I tend to prefer Egyptian oud playing and take that as my model. (I see from a quick check of liner notes that Hamza el Din studied in Cairo, but I still think he took the sound in a different direction.) I don't really like Sudanese music that much, either, from what I've heard of it.

I'm more willing to criticize someone like Simon Shaheen (or Marcel Khalife's oud experiments) because I think I have a handle on the tradition they are operating out of; but in the case of Hamza el Din, I don't think I have enough of a feel for Sudanese music, or for the distinctive Nubian ethnic tradition.

I'd be interested in hearing more though. The only CD I have by him is Music of Nubia. What have you heard and what would you recommend?

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 2 April 2003 02:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually a thread on oudists would be a good idea.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 2 April 2003 02:02 (seventeen years ago) link

What I was sort of trying to say above re: Shaheen is that the music of Abdel Wahab and Oum Kalthoum was extremely popular music. The audience was very involved, audibly so. It was rooted in Arab classical tradition, but it's energy was not rarified or conservatory-oriented. Clearly, Shaheen is fighting an uphill battle to preserve tradition (while not ruling out innovation) and to do so in the U.S., where this type of music hardly has a broad popular base. But I miss the "vibe" that is present in the older recordings of the popular masters.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 2 April 2003 02:33 (seventeen years ago) link

to see this thread brought up again and again is just great; haven't contributed to it myself (haven't heard that much of OK's recordings, only compilations at a library a while ago),
but now a related question occured to me --
Mahmoud Fadl feat.Salwa Abou Greisha:Umm Kalthum 7000, what about this record? anyone here familiar with it? what is actually on it?

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 07:43 (seventeen years ago) link

re: Hamza el Din. i don't know much about this stuff, so i don't have many comparisons. i was in a record store and they played what i think was Music of Nubia and i thought it was beautiful. i ended up picking up Eclipse (which i'm listening to now) because it was cheap used on cd rather than expensive on LP at that store.

what i like about it is it's sparseness and feelings of melancholy and introspection. for most of the disc it's just him on oud and voice with the occasional percussion or clapping. everything is real slow and dark (just like i like my salsa, heh).

when i bought this cd, i was really feeling Sandy Bull and Peter Walker (a little less so). since then i've gotten more into Fahey and Robbie Basho. but this music really reminds me of these players. a man and his guitar. it's very intimate.

what i like the least about this is that it was recorded and produced by Micky Hart. i guess this isn't really a bad thing in itself, but it almost sticks a tag of "New-Age-World-Music" on it.

my tastes might be a lot different than yours RS. not that i don't think what you think is good is good, but that i really, really enjoy non-western musics, but from a western perspective. i really like stuff that is a foreign interpretation of western music. Brazilian tropicalia, Afro funk, Ethiopiques, Italian psych, French rock, Krautrock. I'm starting to get into Salsa because it reminds me of funky-jazz.
(ugh, i reread this and feel like a total bandwagon scenester dork)

JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 08:17 (seventeen years ago) link

RS - I understand you re Shaheen's 'dryness', but his more recent stuff does seem much looser. His last album 'Blue Flame' has some missteps, but generally his mix of jazz, arabic, flamenco works well and seems much more relaxed than on some of his older work.

and yeah, Shaheen does have an old Wahab album but this is a new project.

re Hamza el din - try Waterwheel his first album just rereleased by Nonesuch, his last album "the wish" is also pretty good

so why do you not care for Sudanese music? or perhaps, who have you heard as that might be part of it.

H (Heruy), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

t\'\'t, I haven't heard that Mahmoud Fadl album (and I've never heard any CDs by him), though I am curious about it. I think some of the songs it chooses to cover are quite coverable, in the sense that they stand alone as compositions, depending more on the control of the composer than on Oum Kalthoum's improvisatory digressions. I personally think the strength of "Daret el Ayam" has more to do with the instrumental passages than with the sections that are sung. "Baid Anak" is also a good song to cover, even though Oum Kalthoum's live recording does contain some very strong improvisation and interaction with her audience. At a glance, almost all these songs look like they are from late in her career, incidentally, so it is a limited introduction (even as a set of cover versions), but it makes sense to choose songs from this time to cover. There are some reasonably lengthy audio samples here (I hope they don't actually cut out the best part of "Daret el Ayam"! This sample starts after the introductory passages I love the most.) I think I like this singer. (Some of the samples from Fadl's other albums sound good too.)

H, I haven't heard very much Sudanese music, and at this point I no longer remember who it is that I have heard. I am afraid I can't really describe what I don't like about it, but I think it might be that it sounds as if it's going to do what the Egyptian/Syrian/Lebanese/Gulf music I especially like does, but then instead it goes and does something else, leaving me disappointed.

I don't like jazz all that much, so Shaheen + Jazz isn't really a draw for me. In fact, in general, I don't like to hear Arabic music mixed with jazz (not that there's anything inherently wrong with it).

JasonD, Since so much salsa has been recorded in New York, I think it's fair to say that salsa is an American form of music (and Puerto Rico is, of course, kind of/sort of part of the U.S.). No need to defend your taste. I sometimes laugh at the "expert" persona I am wearing on this thread. You might like Abdel Wahab in particular, among Oum Kalthoum's composers, since he tended to make the most blatant use of various western styles. There are a lot of great electric keyboard sounds in this music from the 60's and 70's, but unfortunately, they often only appear in the introduction and maybe occasionally later on as a little added timbrel (sp?) variety.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 2 April 2003 14:11 (seventeen years ago) link

thanx, Rockist Scientist
as per that M. Fadl rekkid, i've tried to order it (tho 'm not sure whether i'll ever actually get it (long story))

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 21:34 (seventeen years ago) link

RS - I was mulling over what you said upthread re Sudanese music that perhaps the reason you didn't like it was that

>it sounds as if it's going to do what the Egyptian/Syrian/Lebanese/Gulf music I especially like does, but then instead it goes and does something else, leaving me disappointed.

This struck me as its so different from how I listen to music -enjoying similarities between e.g. Ethiopian & Indian, but also enjoying how they then go off in such completely different directions. I'm trying to think of what might cause that equivalent diappointment for me (only exxample i can think of is thinking "Under Pressure" is coming on the radio when it is "Ice Ice Baby" but that doesn't really work)

What in particular about this style grabs you to create that loyalty? We talked about rai on another thread but do you listen to music from Turkey? Armenia? I'm curious.

(was inspired to look up the Fadl album and was reminded on the website about the fact that 3 million (!) ppl attended Oum's funeral.)

H (Heruy), Friday, 4 April 2003 08:24 (seventeen years ago) link

H, I would like to try answer your question, but I want to think about it first; maybe try listening to various examples of the music we're discussing, and then jotting down some notes. I'm not sure I can really explain what it is that I like though, let alone why.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 4 April 2003 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Some of the things I like about the Arabic music I like:

The Vocals: Somehow the vocals in Turkish and Persian music that I've heard often feel either too restrained or too harsh, but Arabic vocals, at their best (a sneaky qualification), seem to me to strike an ideal balance. I like the sense that the vocalist is deliberately reeling out the singing.

The Instruments: I don't think there's a single traditional Arab instrument that I find bothersome. The oud, the kanun, the ney, and all the percussion typically used, sound "just right" to me. (The biggest problem for me in most of the Arabic music I like is the imported western string section, even if it is used differently.) Some Persian instruments are jangly in a way that I dislike (and I think some of these are used as well in Turkish music). Even one type of drum used in Persian music has this sort of rolling quality that I don't like (the percussive equivalent of the string instrument jangliness I hear elsewhere).

Improvisation: This applies especially to Oum Kalthoum, I suppose (and definitely not to Fairouz), but I enjoy the improvisatory element in Arabic singing. Maybe I have simply not listened to the right examples of related musics with an improvisatory aspect.

Rhythms: I'm not sure I have any problem with Persian and Turkish rhythms, but, I am very sure that I like Arabic rhythms, and I'll be damned if I can explain why, but I feel as though I am being re-organized by them, in a beneficial way. The rhythms in Oum Kalthoum's songs aren't usually the main draw for me (though I've gotten to like them over time, after taking a while to even notice that something was going on with the percussion), but I like belly dance rhythms; the fantastic rhythms in folkloric and some pop Syrian and Lebanese music; and much of the rhythm in Iraqi and Saudi music. Okay, one thing I can think of is that there's a certain way the rhythms seem to fall back on themselves, and then recollect themselves and keep moving. Also, they often contain a very long cycle of beats.

Melodies, modes, and structure in general: This is harder for me to talk about. I don't really have a way to describe these differences. The modes are pretty much exactly the same (from one middle eastern tradition to another), taken as a series of tones, but there must be some sort of difference in some of the other conventions surrounding how the modes are used. I don't know.

I think a lot of it is just that of all the modal, microtonal musics I've been exposed to, Arabic music is the one I've had the most exposure to, so it's become my "home base" in a way (at least for modal, microtonal music).

I'm pretty keen on some of the Greek music I've heard, but have had trouble finding anyone to guide me into more of that. Incidentally, I did start a thread about Turkish music here.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 4 April 2003 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link

The beginning rhythms of one Milhem Baraket song (sorry, no title in English) remind me of a skeleton puppet beginning to move.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 4 April 2003 23:36 (seventeen years ago) link

wow, great answer to my not very well phrased question.

Something which I think was in the back of my head earlier was your coment on not liking jazz and Arabic mixes. I think perhaps I read (projected) a little more traditionalist approach into that than was meant as I was thinking ‘bout how ubiquity of jazz in 20s & 30s led to developments in many local music scenes from adoption of different instruments to new approaches to folkloric and that it is a building block for a lot of stuff (tho you do note above you don’t like the use of western string sections)

hmm, have to think and come back to this

H (Heruy), Saturday, 5 April 2003 11:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't mind the introduction of new instruments as such. I like the way Arabic music uses accordion, saxophone, electric guitar, and electric keyboards. Also, the inclusion of upright bass in these orchestras is a nice touch.

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 5 April 2003 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link

(Also regarding fusions with jazz: I just don't like jazz all that much, so it may come down to that.)

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 5 April 2003 12:30 (seventeen years ago) link

aargh...how can you say that rockist? you like sun ra! ;-)

BTW great thread, I haven't got round to anything since the cassete but I'll try to get some more during the easter break (I haven't investigated good places to get 'world music' in london but I'll look).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 5 April 2003 18:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Julio, I know, but if I like Sun Ra, yet hardly like any other jazz, that leaves me thinking I don't really like jazz as such. Plus he is obviously a crossover jazz artist, who attracts a lot of people who primarily listen to other genres. (I saw the smiley face but thought I would respond anyway.)

Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 5 April 2003 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah it was a nice jokey comment.

even though sun ra has done a lot with jazz, you know, that's where he starts from but I get what you're saying.

Though I still think you might get to like some jazz in the future.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 5 April 2003 18:34 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
To add a little bit to my answer to H's question, one reason (though by no means the only reason) that I tend to be dissatsified with more contemporary Arabic music, compared to Oum Kalthoum's recordings, is that I really like the way her songs frequently slow down for long stretches. In general I like the way she doesn't restrict herself to metrical regularity. (Is that the right term or am I thinking of poetry?) For effect, she will pull up more slowly on a given line, and the like. I like the pauses and relatively silent moments.

Contemporary Egyptian dance music is not going to give me this. I like dance music (that is: music for dancing), but the old popular classical music is largely non-dance music for me.

Odd that people don't seem to talk that much about variation in tempo with a performance (or recording) as a value similar to variety of dynamic range. (One exception would be fans of prog.)

(Julio, once I have listened to all he Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald I want to listen to, my familiarity with the standards they sang might make me more receptive to instrumental jazz of all types. Not that that's why I want to listen to them (I want to listen to them because I like them--well, I know I like Billie Holiday, and I think I could like a lot of Ella), but it occurs to me that it could be a byproduct of doing so.)

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 15 May 2003 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm always seeing this thread pop up and meaning to read it but i never have up until now...
anyway,i think i'll download some of her stuff and see what i think
i know nothing about arabic music beyond seeing rahib-abou-khalid live,what i have read on this thread,and heard in random places without knowing anything about it,so god knows what i will think of it,but i'm curious so i may as well give it a try...
there's a track called hob eh on kazaa so i'll give it a shot,will report back later...

robin (robin), Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

actually i'll go for el hob kolloh,since the file is about a third of the size and i have a really slow connection
is this in any way representative of her work?

robin (robin), Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that's from the 60's. It's not one of my personal favorite Oum Kalthoum recordings, but it's okay.

Oh wait, you're shifting gears. El Hob Kolloh. Let me see what that is. That's very very late and not representative. If it's the one I'm thinking of, she's sounds like she's on her last legs. It has some creepy organ sounds in it, but I can't recommend it. It's more represenative of Abdel Wahab's compositional style than of Oum Katlhoum's singing abilities.

What else is there?

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link

If you can find Ha Ablou Bokra or Qquab Qablou Boqura or anything that looks like that, it's a good short song.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:28 (seventeen years ago) link

You can always go here to just listen.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link

i have that page bookmarked but unfortunately i dont have real player at the moment...
i'll see if there's anything else...

robin (robin), Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:36 (seventeen years ago) link

is ya msaharny any better?
that's all there seems to be at the moment...

robin (robin), Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Sigh. Ya Msaharny is just okay, too, in my opinion. It's quite late in her career. Of course, a lot of the late stuff is still really popular, but these aren't necessarily the best of that lot.

Yam Saharny is a great song in its own right, I just am not crazy about her version (which is the original).

I would recommen Hob Eh more over the other two, but I realize that download time may make that impossible.

I'm listening to El Hob Kolloh now and she sounds a bit out of place in the midst of this music, though it has its moments.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:45 (seventeen years ago) link

well i'll get hob eh for the moment so,and see what i think
i should have my computer sorted out over the next week,so i'll go to that site and listen to some of the files there as well...

robin (robin), Thursday, 15 May 2003 23:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Hob Eah is from 1960, though the recording you have might be from later. The one I have sounds later than that to me, for what that's worth. It's composed by Baligh Hamdi.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 16 May 2003 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(I wish I could say I liked her singing more on this one.)

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 16 May 2003 00:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I scored a 5CD Oum Kalsoum box thing for 25 bucks at Tower the other week. It's great--the sound quality is ass as is the packaging but the sheer volume means I've been surrounded by her voice a lot lately and have been beginning to notice more nuance. I know very little about Arabic music but I figure listening lots is the best way to learn.

adam (adam), Friday, 16 May 2003 02:31 (seventeen years ago) link

adam, what's in that set? (Are there any titles in English?) Is it the EMI Arabia set with "Diva" in the title? I've never seen an actual box set of her work before.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 16 May 2003 12:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I’ve seen it but never picked it up, called Anthologie and released on Sonodisc.

Volume 1
1. Azkouriny 33:37
2. Salo kaos al fella 31:13

Volume 2
1. Hadeeth al rouh 26:23
2. Ghareb ala bab el raga 22:26

Volume 3
1. Woleda el hoda 56:54

Volume 4
1. Gadet hobak leih 39:18

Volume 5
1. Al nile 27:04
2. Nagh el borda 22:56

H (Heruy), Friday, 16 May 2003 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link

These are personal favorites:

Salo kaos al fella
Woleda el hoda
Nagh el borda

Judging by the track lengths, it looks like the box set versions of the latter two would be live recordings. I have only heard the studio recordings of these songs. They should still be good. For a long time I didn't like these two songs though. The melodies are very counterintuitive from a western point of view, and possibly even from an Arab point of view, since these were considered difficult songs at the time.

I am not sure I've heard the others, though I suspect they would be good. They seem to all be from around the 40's.

It's possible that more recent, individual, recordings of these songs would have better sound quality, but these are pretty old recordings to begin with.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 16 May 2003 13:43 (seventeen years ago) link

listening to hob eh now
i like what i've heard,so far
the music is really good,i can see how her voice is a bit of an acquired taste,she sounds like she could do with clearing her throat every now and again..
i'd definitely like to hear more,anyway...
i'll have to have a look for some of your recommendations...

robin (robin), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Her voice got deeper and deeper as she got older. It's still an acquired taste, but the version from about 10-15 years earlier is a little more appealing (to me anyway). I find the singing here a little overblown at times. She's still got incredible force at this point, but has lost some subtlety. (I have no idea what I'd think if I could understand Arabic though.) I agree that the music is good, and there are some high points in the performance as well.

Rockist Scientist, Friday, 16 May 2003 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link

two months pass...
ilove very very very much Om Kalsoum
for me she is like a religion
ho can answear me

najib ibn khayat, Monday, 28 July 2003 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

What is your question?

amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 28 July 2003 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

My lovely friend bought a record by Um Kalthum in Brussels. it is very good. yes, perhaps she is the best singer of the 20th century.

[the record is WAY better than the REALLY LAME Fairuz record I bought; I am no worrying that Fairuz is actually rubbish, and the good record I have by her is an aberration]

DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 3 August 2003 22:39 (seventeen years ago) link

DV, happy to hear that. What Kalthum song(s) was it?

What I think about Fairuz is that she is a great singer, but doesn't have the best judgment about what material to use. Basically anything from the 80's forward is iffy. But the styles in which she works are extremely varied. But I bet there is more than one CD worth material by her that you would like. I can't be as helpful with her, since I don't know her nearly as well as I know Kalthoum. (Of course, that unevenness is partly why I don't know her work as well.) What Fairuz did you get? Have you heard Soiree Avec Fairuz? The sound quality is really poor, but the music is quite good. That's cheating a little since it's more classical than most of her work.

Al Andalous, Sunday, 3 August 2003 23:57 (seventeen years ago) link

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