The secret to having a tidy dwelling is to keep all your shit at your parents :~}
― 龜, Sunday, 22 February 2015 21:52 (five years ago) link
i bought this house like a year and a half ago and still my second bedroom is the don't-want-to-unpack zone. slowly i have just been throwing everything in there away. it makes me feel so free. i only have 2 cardboard boxes left but also some plastic totes. i'm going to dump their contents. i haven't used any of the stuff in them.
― computer champion (harbl), Sunday, 22 February 2015 21:55 (five years ago) link
i live to donate garbage bags of my crap
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 22 February 2015 21:55 (five years ago) link
i recently threw 2 xl garbage bags of clothes in to a donation bin
― lag∞n, Sunday, 22 February 2015 21:56 (five years ago) link
right now i have a garbage bag full of dumb towels that were cluttering up my closet
and a bag full of books I will never read
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 22 February 2015 22:24 (five years ago) link
The best thing for me is her clothes folding and "vertical" drawer stacking - that continues to be awesome everywhere I apply it.
― Jaq, Sunday, 22 February 2015 23:21 (five years ago) link
We still have 2 pallets of banker boxes, stacked 4 high, in the basement from our move to this house 5 years ago. Maybe by summer I'll be up to tackling them.
― Jaq, Sunday, 22 February 2015 23:23 (five years ago) link
throw them in the river m8
― lag∞n, Sunday, 22 February 2015 23:25 (five years ago) link
Have to touch each thing, see if there's joy, then into the river
― Jaq, Sunday, 22 February 2015 23:27 (five years ago) link
let the river touch joy --the life-changing magic of tidying up pt 2
― lag∞n, Sunday, 22 February 2015 23:32 (five years ago) link
i bought this as a pass agg birthday gift for my boyfriend in a fit of pique but after it came it just sat on the porch for a week because i was gone and so the post office sent it back. amazon gave me a refund and i didn't even have to do anything. very clutter-free.
― hammer smashed nagls (mattresslessness), Monday, 23 February 2015 02:30 (five years ago) link
Burn After Cleaning
― 龜, Monday, 23 February 2015 02:33 (five years ago) link
i bought this book today
― Treeship, Monday, 23 February 2015 02:46 (five years ago) link
It is my intention to have far less things. Compared to most people I know, I am light on useless crap. Sometimes I buy small ceramic things and I have some feminist art I found at a bus stop and carried home once. I am willing to part with all the things that do not give me joy. I have many things that give me anxiety, like a vase with a weird crackly surface. When I see this vase I worry that it will get dirty and that I will have to clean it and that in cleaning it the surface will crack more and more. I should probably get rid of it. I think I could start a very well curated Etsy store for tasteful 1970s pottery.
My problem is more about clothes. I need much more clothes than the ones that give me joy for practical reasons. I work with special needs kids, I cycle everywhere, rain and shine. I have a whole pile of clothes that exist to get destroyed by the elements, I need a t-shirt to wear everyday in hot weather. Sometimes two. I don't want to ruin my "special spark of joy" trousers by wearing them when I cycle across town and then get vomited on by a four year old. I need a pair of jeans to wear when I paint the hallway or a t-shirt i don't mind getting splattered when I cook. the problem with so many decluttering minimalist manifestos that i see is that it doesn't keep in mind the fact that I sometimes don't have time to do a wash and I often have to do things that are dirty or messy. I always have to bear in mind that my parents are basically hoarders and I have to stop myself from keeping things that "might come in handy" all the time.
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 16:43 (four years ago) link
is everything supposed to have a "special spark of joy"? what is "joy" anyway? I have a box of lightbulbs, a flashlight, an off-brand leatherman, laundry detergent, and a tin where I keep quarters for laundry, in the weird built in shelf thing by my door. I feel satisfied that I have these things, and that they are in that place because it is strategic and convenient. Is that the same thing as "joy" ... idk
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 18:04 (four years ago) link
I have too much stuff and have clutter issues but I'm going to stick with "emotional resonance" or "physical need" when cleaning. My joy is internal, thanks
― mh, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 19:52 (four years ago) link
except for that mop I bought, the joy mop
my mop is pretty damn dope.
i haven't read the book (my mom has it), but does the author address the issue of items related to one's menstrual cycle?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:20 (four years ago) link
i also realized that the majority of space in my apartment is taken up by things that are part of an "archive" or "library" ... where the thing is a part of a larger collection of things, so it isn't just about my relationship with each individual thing.
but for the most part (like 99%), everything I own is either art/knowledge-related or it is functional. I don't have a bunch of trinket-y things. I have very few things that are mementos or are kept for purely sentimental reasons.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:27 (four years ago) link
i'm moving house tomorrow and christ alive do my partner and i own far too many books. she'd never let me get rid of them though
― TARANTINO! (dog latin), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 21:21 (four years ago) link
my wife read this book (or some of it at least) and said it's mostly about folding things and rolling clothes up into tubes and dumb shit like that
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 21:41 (four years ago) link
The clothes-into-tubes thing is cool - that way you can see all of your shirts in the drawer rather than just what's at the top of the stack...
― schwantz, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 22:26 (four years ago) link
Xp lol no it's not
It's a great book if you can see past some of "whimsical" wording - which is prob the result of translation - and the "spark of joy" in relation to practical items is explained pretty well; the point isn't getting rid of stuff, it's about deciding what's worth keeping and appreciating your shit and what your shit does for you. So the "joy" of tampons is supposed to be like "I appreciate these tampons bc they stop me leaking blood everywhere". So yeah it's corny af, but makes a lot of sense.
NB I read it a while ago and still haven't actually konmari'd any part of my house.
― just1n3, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 22:34 (four years ago) link
Fuck u, zing!!!
i think she has a section in the book about getting rid of duplicate items
― nomar, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 22:36 (four years ago) link
I misplaced this book under a stack of magazines and some socks
― mh, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 23:49 (four years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, July 6, 2016 5:41 PM (2 hours ago)
seems like she read (some of it at least)
― assawoman bay (harbl), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 23:58 (four years ago) link
i read this, and did it. i took a few months to really do it, and if you add up all the steps to the very end it took me about a year. i got rid of and replaced some furniture, which takes a while. and i just looked thru a box of personal childhood stuff only recently.
if you skip all of the stories of her clients going thru it and distill the steps of the process you could fit the real meat of the book on a notecard.
i'm really glad i did it. biggest impacts are probably on the wardrobe and the kitchen -- i didn't think i had much stuff, but of course i had a piles of clothes i didn't like and grubby old tools & utensils i didn't use.
i wasn't quite as ruthless as she insists when it came to my books, but i did offload about half of them (adios college) and got rid of no cds. honestly the step dealing with miscellaneous paperwork was probably the most painful.
the book is a funny read for its mix of whimsical touchyfeelyness -- "everything should bring you joy" -- and utter severity -- "keepsakes of the past are useless trash, if your family doesn't like you doing this, lie to them"
i wonder if 2nd-hand shops are seeing a weird glut, the book is enough of a phenomenon that it's inspiring some backlashy thinkpieces; "stop cluttershaming me!" etc
― goole, Thursday, 7 July 2016 18:47 (four years ago) link
like, i just wanted to take stock of what i really owned in life and have an apartment that i enjoyed being in, not reach some shintoist level of immanence or w/e
― goole, Thursday, 7 July 2016 18:50 (four years ago) link
of all the people I can think of, I would trust goole to be able to accomplish this
I think my coworker, who is kind of all over the place unless she's concentrating on a specific task, probably shocked her family by getting rid of everything in their house over a long weekend
― mh, Thursday, 7 July 2016 18:51 (four years ago) link
distill the steps of the process you could fit the real meat of the book on a notecard.
please distill for us
― sarahell, Thursday, 7 July 2016 18:59 (four years ago) link
throw out everything
― assawoman bay (harbl), Thursday, 7 July 2016 20:11 (four years ago) link
i think that the backlash pieces are really dumb. she doesn't cluttershame - she's just really focussed on how you're probably hanging on to shit that is causing anxiety. if you actually like all your clutter and it makes you happy, she's not against that. but she gives you permission to throw out shit you're only holding onto out of guilt. and the idea is to get rid of all the bad shit so your life in your home is more enjoyable.
eg the paperwork thing - she talks about how we keep way too much unnecessary paper and with her system, once you've gotten rid of the excess, it promotes keeping that paper to a minimum, i.e. you keep all your important papers together, but they're so minimal that it's easy to find what you need when you need it but also each time you go to find something, you're forced to look through what you have and discard expired stuff (like warrantees etc)
eg gifts - she talks about how you don't have to hang onto gifts just bc they're gifts, you should look at the gift, appreciate the intent of the giver, and then if it's something that doesn't 'spark joy', you discard it.
even tho i haven't actually done this yet (i haven't had, and still don't have, the mental energy to do this yet), i've packed up my life and thrown away or given away 95% of my shit 3 x in my life, and never regretted anything i've gotten rid of.
i also really appreciate that she doesn't really care about types of storage or organization - sure, she recommends ways to store things better (the clothes rolling for example) but she doesn't have you meticulously organizing shit or buying special storage systems. all you need to do is find a place for everything and make sure things go back to their place every time they're removed. once you have a place for everything, the idea is that when a new item enters your home, you have decide whether it has a place or if you should discard it.
― just1n3, Thursday, 7 July 2016 22:48 (four years ago) link
she's about a million times more reasonable on life advice than alain de botton
― mh, Thursday, 7 July 2016 23:24 (four years ago) link
all pro kondo people otm
― Treeship, Thursday, 7 July 2016 23:40 (four years ago) link
― goole, Friday, 8 July 2016 15:43 (four years ago) link
once you have a place for everything, the idea is that when a new item enters your home, you have decide whether it has a place or if you should discard it.
I just started doing something like this with clothing. When I get a new thing that goes in the closet, I will remove an old thing that I don't wear. However, the old thing goes into one of the to-be-altered/refashioned bins under my sewing table ... it does bring me joy thinking how I could alter/refashion said item ... I am probably "doing it wrong"
― sarahell, Friday, 8 July 2016 19:58 (four years ago) link
lol on another site some dude was asking "how do I tell people I know that owning too much stuff is bad?!"
made me realize "too much stuff" is kind of a self-defeating phrase. how much is too much? how little is too little? what is clutter, really
― mh, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:10 (four years ago) link
clutter is the box of every TV Guide magazine from 1985 that I collected at the time because at the age of 10 I had the idea to write some insightful essay about the contents of TV Guide magazine, and this box has sat in my parents garage for almost 30 years. (Though I think they finally got rid of it in the past few months)
― sarahell, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:16 (four years ago) link
as a child, marie kondo used to steal stuff from her parents and siblings that she felt they didn't need and throw them away
― Treeship, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:18 (four years ago) link
my sister, before she could talk, was grabbing my toys and hiding them under her bed. my parents couldn't believe my claims that she was taking my toys until they cleaned under the bed.
― mh, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:19 (four years ago) link
this is why marie kondo and i will never get along
does your sister still do this?
― sarahell, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:20 (four years ago) link
you know, she dropped by to feed the cat at my place while I was out of town. should probably go to her house and check.
― mh, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:22 (four years ago) link
Far from apologizing for discarding their things without permission, I would retort, "I threw it out for you because you were incapable of doing it yourself."
i got the book to learn the life changing magic of tidying up but instead of changing my life i just ended up really enjoying reading about the author's eccentricities. in some ways it was hard to relate to her because i am a slob (something i hate about myself) but in other ways it was easy because she is also a weirdo.
― Treeship, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:25 (four years ago) link
For myself, I especially hate the idea of turning stuff into family heirlooms which then must be handed down across generations and kept safe by each successive owner so it can be passed along at death. It doesn't matter how small it is or how seemingly 'valuable' or emblematic of family history. If it has no place of its own and no real value to the present owner, it has lost its privileged aura and should be let go of as lightly and easily as if it were an empty cardboard box. Give it away within the family if you can, but if nobody else in the family wants it, ditch it without guilt.
For example, in about 1930 my grandfather, as newly minted associate professor who'd grown up as a poor farm boy in ragged overalls, bought a deluxe calfskin-bound Eleventh Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica in its own custom bookcase. It was the supreme emblem of his rise in the world. It stood proudly in his living room in every place he dwelt. My mom knew how precious it was to him and took it in at his death. She passed it on to me, because I was the only child willing to take it. I did it to please her. Recently, I gave it to Goodwill. It had lost its purpose.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Friday, 8 July 2016 20:26 (four years ago) link
imo the purpose was to sell that sucker to a collector and have a nice meal celebrating granddad
― mh, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:30 (four years ago) link
you'll be sorry once this internet fad is over and you can't look up anything
― Treeship, Friday, 8 July 2016 20:30 (four years ago) link
ENDING IS BETTER THAN MENDINGhttps://static.adweek.com/adweek.com-prod/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ikea-lamp-hed-2017-600x315.jpghttps://www.scifi-movies.com/images/contenu/data/0004210/affiche-brave-new-world-1980-1.jpg
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 15:25 (one year ago) link
I appreciate that someone wrote this article. I couldn't articulate a lot of this before . I think someone mentioned on the netflix thread about her shinto mindset.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 15:26 (one year ago) link
interesting, but it also seems absurd that that joking tweet about books required an apology
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 15:44 (one year ago) link
Oh, I didn't even see that. My tweet blocking powers are getting stronger and stronger.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 15:48 (one year ago) link
also totally makes sense to me because the little once more religious Jewish voice in the back of my head said "that's idol worship" when I was watching it, lol
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 16:00 (one year ago) link
thx for that article Yerac
― Nhex, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 16:51 (one year ago) link
I think the point was that it would be more lasting and sensible to reject an "excessively consumeristic life" than to merely maintain it in a way that makes it more tolerable.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, January 22, 2019 5:07 PM (yesterday)
this is kinda like my "waiting for the revolution" type anarchist friends that don't see the point of voting or getting involved in any form of activism that doesn't result in overthrowing capitalism, the patriarchy, etc.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:27 (one year ago) link
lol what? It's nothing like that.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:29 (one year ago) link
it kind of is because you are going to accumulate things and clutter and stuff you don't need because that is life in America, sorry.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:30 (one year ago) link
or stuff you want for a while and then don't want -- consumerism is like gravity at this point -- sorry, this is just how I feel and also true
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:32 (one year ago) link
Buying behavior can just as much be altered as hording behavior. Of course no TV show is going to focus on not buying stuff though /trench
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:34 (one year ago) link
imo it's a trickle-down effect, by making you reconsider what you want to keep it makes you reconsider what you've been buying, and what you'll buy in the future
― omar little, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:37 (one year ago) link
whether you buy it yourself, or receive it as gifts from well-meaning family members, like YMP's, you are gonna end up with a bunch of stuff you end up not wanting ... maybe not as much, but ...yeah, I challenge you to create an anti-clutter force field in yr home to prevent it from getting in.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:37 (one year ago) link
Oh well for sure it can't be 100% stopped, I understand that well having a 3yo and a 7yo. We have a policy of throwing away all goodie bag junk after they go to sleep for example.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:40 (one year ago) link
there’s kind of a Say’s law to clutter imo; having a tiny apartment helps. people with houses seem to love filling them up with random crap. my sister has an entire room in her house that’s just ‘storage’ (enormous piles of junk)
― flopson, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:43 (one year ago) link
I have an anti-clutter forcefield. It was work though.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:44 (one year ago) link
Plus it helps that my spouse was a techno hippie and he cleans his shit up like an adult.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:46 (one year ago) link
having a tiny apartment helps. people with houses seem to love filling them up with random crap. my sister has an entire room in her house that’s just ‘storage’ (enormous piles of junk)
yeah!!! i remember when real estate ppl started selling the concept of the "bonus room" -- where the bonus room really was just a room to put piles of junk so the rest of the house could look fashionably tidy. otoh, I know plenty of people who live in small apartments that rent storage units.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:52 (one year ago) link
Yeah was just talking about that with H -- we are a musician and artist and we always talk about wanting a house to have space for doing music and art. We just visited another musician/artist couple who had moved to a house with extra rooms, but they had managed to fill the extra rooms with crap and still not have space for music and art.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:53 (one year ago) link
i just recently made more room in my apartment for music stuff -- such that, in theory, i could set up my drums in my living room -- which maybe i will do, however the downstairs neighbors would have an issue with me practicing them
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:58 (one year ago) link
Buy them earplugs
― Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:59 (one year ago) link
But them in little gift baskets with a note on scented paper saying you’re going to be drumming now
― sarahell, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:00 (one year ago) link
everyone hates the drummer neighbour
― flopson, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:09 (one year ago) link
a reason why I am not allowed to live in a house with a basement ever again
― Jaq, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 19:41 (one year ago) link
Our last place had a garage and my husband was mad the new place didn’t - but guess what we never parked the damn car in there we just filled it with junk. Not having a garage means we def have accumulated way less junk in the last 5 yrs than we did in 2-3 yrs in the old place.
― just1n3, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 22:55 (one year ago) link