no boys allowed in the room!!!!

jealousy is a perfectly normal emotion. you can care about your friend and still be envious of her

No, I know it is but it still doesn't feel great.

Weirdly enough I think I'm more jealous that her family is being supportive then of the actual having a baby thing. like I said, complicated.

jealousy never feels great.

well, no, it doesn't

I needed a lot of therapy support when I was trying unsuccessfully to get pregnant (and even before we were trying and I just wanted to get started) and people I knew got pregnant. Because yeah, it felt terrible and I wanted to be happy for my friends! I don't remember what specifically worked. Maybe just talking about it in a safe place? But mostly just sarahell OTM, and I have been there, and you're not a bad person for feeling that way.

i don't mean to be flippant -- i've just been there a lot of times -- most recently, someone who i used to be really good friends with but who moved away about 5 years ago, messaged me and asked about one of my bff's music and raved about how awesome she was (he had never met her), and part of me was glad that my bff was getting appreciated for something that she works really hard at, but part of me was jealous that he wasn't messaging me about how awesome my band is

in situations like this, it helps me to remind myself that what i am feeling is totally normal, and that i am not a monster

Yeah, I talked to my therapist about it a little bit last week and will again tonight. I honestly wouldn't have expected it to have this much of a negative impact on me. I think some of that has to do with how I'm feeling in general right now (not great!) and the circumstances etc. Thanks though, it does help to know that others have felt this way. I actually spoke to another friend last night who also does not have any kids yet but might like to in the future and she told me that when she found out her little sister was pregnant she dealt with profound sadness. I think I'll try to call her again tomorrow.

when she found out her little sister was pregnant she dealt with profound sadness.

Been there.

aw, Erica, i'm sorry things have been not great for you lately! i don't have any really good advice but i have definitely been in the place where i have been sad/jealous/other negative emotion about a friend's good fortune, and i agree with carl and sarahell. you have to just feel it--at least you're also capable of being happy for her! recently a person i went to graduate school with got an amazing academic job and posted about it on facebook and i don't even want an academic job anymore, but it stung a little. it's human.

this is not at all dumb. it's totally understandable & valid to feel that way, much as it sucks.

i get super complicated feelings about similar stuff--my life feels stuck. when others have big life events, the contrast freaks me out at times. when found out my sis was pregnant, i acted happy for her, hung up the phone, and sobbed....lost. my. shit.

I don't even want kids! but i can feel like such a fuckup sometimes next to others' responsible and adult(ish) lives.

>jealous that her family is being supportive

omfg so v relatable, that.

xps i'm slow. it's human--otm

awww thanks so much guys this is helpful! I have to run but will write more later.

HS - hi, you! Thank you but it's not anything very serious. It's just the middle of winter and everything is grey and cold and there is TOO MUCH SNOW and none of our trains work and I'm pretty sure winter is making most people here feel terrible right now.

your winter is totally crazy this year; that would be reason enough all by itself! <3 <3 <3 someday May will come!

oh E, I have had those feelings, and I'm past the age when I'm going to have kids of my own. Recently someone in the lab had a baby, and, in contrast to your situation, it was someone I very much disliked. I couldn't even be happy for her to balance things out. I also feel very sad recently that my parents' grandkids aren't my kids, they're my stepsister's, and that draws them much closer to her than to me. (I did admittedly choose to move to Canada...)

amen
may will come!!

feeling this but sarahell's right -- we're not monsters Weirdly enough I think I'm more jealous that her family is being supportive

cosigning that it's not dumb, be kind to yourself and let yourself feel those feelings

I was never really sure if I wanted kids but during my epic meltdown-over-ILX breakup I totally burst into tears on my walk home through a park seeing all the kids and parents around the play area and getting all "that will (probably) never be me"

I caught up with some old friends that I mostly lost touch with recently and some of them brought babies/toddlers along. I expected to be totally sad about how much they'd all moved on omg kids and careers, but actually I was more hit in the gut by how everyone was exactly the same except a little balder and older-faced and almost like 15 years hadn't even happened. the kids mostly just reminded me that I don't get how to be around kids, they make me uneasy (also everyone who was there got sick the next week and all the kid-free attendees blamed the kids, ha)

but despite acknowledging that unease I still get the pangs sometimes and I don't know if it's "I really want(ed) kids" or "feels like a milestone I missed and I should at least have some other life plan but I don't" or "never actually wanted but internalised every time my mother told me my aunt and uncle didn't have kids because they were weird/selfish/socially inept/too self-important in their careers as academic geniuses* to waste time on humans etc"

* which I certainly am not, university dropout here, an extra level of angst to catching up with former university friends

also everyone who was there got sick the next week and all the kid-free attendees blamed the kids

I'm generally the first to jump to the defense of children but in this case? It was TOTALLY the kids. Adorable little germ bombs, they are.

i don't get pangs or anything about kids, but marriage/weddings ... my weakness.

ehh it's bad enough you have to deal with the shitty complicated envy feelings, don't do yourself more damage by beating yourself up over it. you'll get used to the idea of your friends pregnancy and the feelings will sting a lot less very soon.

i get those pangs too, even though i know having kids isn't right for me; i always wanted a very idealized family of my own, to make up for what i lacked growing up. i realized that that was not a good reason to have kids, and that the reality of having children just isn't something i'm capable of dealing with.

so yeah, there's still a sting of negativity when i see my friends' happy family pics.

eh Branwell going way back but you mentioned the stoics
I liked this book as a general overview of that kind of worldview, modern & old, western & non
The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking
dumb self helpy title but I liked it as an overview & a breezy light read

feeling envious of other people's babies, lives, etc is ok
all feelings are ok 2 feel
i cried for a couple days after both my younger sibs had babies
jealousy, confused for not fitting into their perfect role
I don't want to be in their place & I'm happy where I am
it was like barfing after bad food, though, just some reaction that happened
holding it in would've made me explode

my goal lately is talk before or when I get to 80% explodey
so I never totally explode

I don't want to be in their place & I'm happy where I am
it was like barfing after bad food, though, just some reaction that happened

very accurate even though i don't have siblings
any barf-related metaphor is one i'm likely to understand because i will puke at the slightest provocation

But it's really thinking about the various ways that men perform 'anti-sexism' or 'feminism' and how eye-rolly it can be. But this idea of evaluating people who say they're 'allies' not on what they say, but on what they do. Evaluating them not on what they say or perform about Women and Feminist Topics, but on how they treat actual women, especially ones who disagree with them. This will tell you a million times more than all the posturing on all the threads saying all the Things.

I've been trying to move beyond the endless cycle of outrage and rage - because it's so wearing and exhausting - and accomplishes little. But one aspect of that is noticing how many men use "lookit that terrible sexist over there! that man is bad!" as a way of distancing themselves from Sexism. That (bad man) is sexist. Not "we all exist in a constant background tide of sexism, in which I am myself complicit and carried along by." The actions of the Bad Man can be a convenient stand-in for repositories of bad feelings and exorcising them, rather than a call to action to examine how they may be swimming in the same current without realising it.

― Branwell with an N, Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:24 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i am very very very much feeling this today. an activist dude in my circle who seems to be constantly attempting to sow discontent among women, who uses women's labor and steals credit, etc. i want to confront him with what i've noticed about him, challenge him to reflect and change if he really believes what he gives lip service to.

is there something stopping you from laying out the facts about his counterproductive behavior and asking him to make xyz changes? (not a flippant question, just wondering)

I'm not going to speak for Roxy but I think many of us have had encounters with the Right-On Dude and the seemingly inevitable shitstorm when you suggest that his actions might be somewhere beneath his lofty conception of himself as "A Good Guy." Like, it's true, you are in a way fundamentally undermining his preconception of himself. (With the resulting shitstorm of "how dare you impugn my credentials" and "stop being divisive" and "you're the real problem here")

Does anyone have a method that actually works? Because I sure as hell keep doing the wrong thing.

Crabbit, is that book by Oliver Burkeman? I liked his Guardian column but I'm not sure I could take a whole book of him. But that is the thing: I mean, you know my beef with mindless positivism.

But that's what I like about the Stoics: they fully admit, lots of shitty things happen. Accepting that and sometimes trying to think about the outcomes of shitty things and how you would handle them better is a good exercise

I'm also kind of relieved about letting go of the idea of being "A Good Person" - like, there is no such thing as a good person. (A relief because I have been a terrible person fairly often.) One can choose to act in accordance with "virtue" (I am going to end up learning Greek to understand these terms better.) If one doesn't, one learns from the mistake.

I guess that's a way to think about the Right-On Dudes who talk a feminist talk but act in ways that are harmful to individual women? I have no idea how to express it to them without that "how dare you, a mere, simple woman CALL OUT me, the Great Feminist Man!" But you can usually tell actual feminist men from the way they handle that.

like, there is no such thing as a good person.

I disagree ... not that I believe my definition of "a good person" is universal or that there should be a universal definition ... but having that idea to aspire to is important to me existentially.

Well there are people who act well, and people whose actions are good, and people whose intentions are good? But "good people"? People are inherently ambivalent, capable of both good and evil. It is the actions that matter. No one just sits in their room being holy all day.

Thinking more on my above post: a think a proper Stoic response would be to say nothing. You cannot change other people, you can only change your views of them and your responses to them. You can certainly withdraw your assent of your agreement from their behaviour. But if they choose to privilege their belief in themselves as "A Good Feminist" over actually treating women like human beings, that's their bag. I'm obviously not a good Stoic as I have trouble not putting my 2 cents in.

On that note, I will shut up, as cavilling does nothing.

Well there are people who act well, and people whose actions are good, and people whose intentions are good? But "good people"? People are inherently ambivalent, capable of both good and evil. It is the actions that matter. No one just sits in their room being holy all day.

i think that is what makes a good person, good, to act well even though they are ambivalent and capable of acting badly. And few people act "good" all the time. Anyway, this is more of a morals and religion discussion that is odd having here

Ugh, I typed out a reply and lost wifi connection.

Yeah I think that we're talking at cross purposes?

Perhaps this is a holdover from Protestantism: the idea that there are Inherently Good people, which, holds within it the idea that there must also be Inherently Bad people. Letting go of the idea of (Inherently) Good People means that I can also let go of the idea of Inherently Bad people. This is twofold: first, letting go of the terror that *I* might just be "A Bad Person". (I often think I use ILX as an instrument of self harm in this way: a whole selection of people very vocal and willing to tell me to my face what a Terrible Person I am! Thus confirming that view.) But also it might lead to me trying to learn more compassion towards other people? They're not "Bad People" either, just consistently making choices that seem right to them, but are deleterious to me or others?

I don't want to go too far down the "Choices" road because Structure always affects the choices that are *available* but it's a new way of thinking for me.

Apologies if this is an inappropriate place to have had this conversation. Apologies if this is something that everyone else learned in Sixth Form and I'm a simpleton for not thinking about it that way. I guess I was absent that day.

I was really looking forward to being off the pill because I dunno seemed like it would be nice or at least no much more of a bother. RONG.

Apparently, off the pill my period will kick in oh say every two weeks? Which is particularly inconvenient when you are on overseas vacation thinking you are so fine, you have a big cushion of time until next period, and then WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK and it is so crazy heavy to boot (thanks a lot, fucking fibroids!). But what has brought me to tears (along with having a terrible cold with fever and chills and tubercular cough) is I am in TURKEY and JUST YOU TRY AND FIND A TAMPON IN TURKEY. YOU CANNOT. So poor spouse trekked in snow and ice (yeah, weather didn't work out so great for this part of the vacation) to the only shop he could find open. He asked "what do I look for" and I'm like "the heaviest ones!!!" So he brought back a selection, all of which have the max number of droplet symbols (five) filled in and something that looks kind of like "max" in turkish, in contrast to three droplets and something that looks like "normal" in turkish, and goddamn if the max are oh just above long pantyliner duty.

TURKISH WOMEN: WHAT IS YOUR SECRET TO HAIR, MENSTRUATION?

Anyway thanking u for rant space and also any ideas about what I should do about this sitch other than see my GYN, which I will. I have a feeling she'll be like options are a) deal with it, b) back on pill (I'm forty one years old! Started on the pill in my 20s! Give me a break), or c) some sort of interventional approach like fibroid shaving.

Just fucking take the thing out already. All of it. Please. Has been of no use to me since day one, only causes me troubles.

I'll shop around for that BOGO deal we discussed earlier.

I'm sorry you're dealing with that. It sounds fucking brutal. :(

thank you, carl.

Actually I am wrong that no good has come of being *off* the pill--I used to get really awful hormonally-triggered migraines when the estrogen went bye-bye. But my GYN helped me get that under control by taking a wee bit of premarin on days 24-28.

I'm sure she'll help me with this too. My two cents for anyone looking for a GYN is that it is helpful to have someone who does *only* GYN, not OB. The frees him/her up to be really focused on not preggos and their periods and menopause and such.

I have just been delivered hot soup and a xanax from my favorite person in the universe, so all will be better shortly :)

yeah going off the pill did some weird things to me, but getting rid of the migraines was the best
hope you feel better soon
sorry you got bad period on your vacation :(

congrats on having a favorite person in the universe who cares so much about you!

LL did you wait it out and things settled down? I know YMMV and all that but I'll gladly take anecdotes.

xpost yeah I am lucky big time. Person is now showing me videos of red foxes playing in the snow and ommmmmmmmmmmgggggg

wait the red pandas you mean?

This one might make you feel better too then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Se6flT2EWs

oh yes red pandas! Thank you! They are so cute, I don't know why I did not realize the cuteness potential before!

LL did you wait it out and things settled down? I know YMMV and all that but I'll gladly take anecdotes.
yes
definitely settled down. aside from having to deal with it every 4 weeks, my only menstrual complaint these days is mittelschmerz on my right ovary. otherwise, it's really great to be free of that dull feeling that pervaded every waking day and then erupted into a monthly migraine followed by a light period. i'll take a slightly heavier period and even cramps for a week if it means i feel alive for the rest of the weeks i am not having my period.

i resent the fact that my menstrual cycle is now 26 days. maybe it has been for a while, and i never noticed? anyway, i just want those extra 2 days back.

the mirena IUD has lightened my periods and reduced the severe back cramping, but now i get really terrible boob-pain! not every time tho.

my PMS is more manageable now too
i feel capable of handling it, whereas before between the headaches and the emotional shit i was a total messssss

i resent the fact that my menstrual cycle is now 26 days. maybe it has been for a while, and i never noticed? anyway, i just want those extra 2 days back.

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Friday, February 20, 2015 9:15 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not to alarm you, but mine has gotten shorter as I've gotten older and I'm at about 21 days now. :|

if genetics are anything to go by, i've got another 10 years to go

anyway, these posts are so otm right now

i hate dryer sheets, they are pointless

― harbl, Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:43 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't like anything that makes things smell like anything!

― harbl, Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:43 PM (5 years ago)

Dryer sheets are not only pointless they actually make towels LESS ABSORBENT by coating them in a layer of goo. No thanks.

i've never understood why or how to use fabric softener

White vinegar in a Downy ball for towels, IMO.

xp me neither, but i have some downstairs neighbors that do a lot of laundry that always involves scented dryer sheets