Miles Davis - In A Silent Way

yeah i just got turned on to that too -- is waldron's other 70s stuff along those lines?

^^^ yeah, I was totally unfamiliar with this, thanks for the tip.

Same here, thanks!

Mal Waldron is great! Hard Talk is amazing - gets wilder than silent way tho

My Mal Waldron experience is limited to the three live Five Spot albums with Eric Dolphy and Booker Little, which I love madly. I should hear the one referenced itt!

yeahhh those five spot albums are so amazing. maldron's on a few mingus things from the 50s too, and I've got a couple albums of stuff with coltrane (also from the 50s). but i really don't know anything about the later phase of his career. seems like I've got to catch up!

his album "first encounter" w/gary peacock rules too (getting off the vibe of of this thread) but just in general he's excellent

The only Waldron that comes to mind is "Up Popped the Devil" which is great. I'll have to check out some of these others.

y'all know about waldron's work with the band embryo, right? it's not quite the world-historical event that a free jazz/krautrock crossover could and should have been, but it's quite good.

wait i forgot that "the call" /is/ embryo, essentially.

anyway your next stop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbRlAygcMFo

yeah that's what got me on the waldron kick -- "the call" is outstanding.

I agree with ILM's album poll:

Best Miles Davis Album 1949-1974

I wont argue with the winner but I don't agree with zero votes for Big Fun.

pretty far afield from in a silent way in terms of sound, but i just heard this early attempt at electrifying Miles this week: http://bigozine2.com/roio/?p=2195
terrible recording, sounds like a great performance

finally getting around to the In A Silent Way sessions. it's interesting when you hear this period's recordings in order - from say '67 through '75 - there's a pretty clear but gradual evolution. It's not like he went from post-bop to Hendrix-style guitars all of a sudden, there's a real continuity to it as the personnel shifts and changes. But it feels like historically the short-hand is that this was so shocking and abrupt, a la Dylan-going-electric, but how much distance is there really, compositionally and sonically, between Miles in the Sky and In A Silent Way? It's not *that* abrupt a shift.

yeah it's in the keys mostly i would think. i recall crouch's big hit on this stressing the wallpapery background sound of it - which would mean he glommed on to the main differentiator from the 'miles in the sky' sound, too.

why did jazz dudes hate the fender rhodes initially, was Miles really the first to bring it in? (Obviously Ra loved electric keyboards but he was kinda off in his own little universe) Listening to Chick Corea bitch about being forced to play it is always lol

or was that Jarrett? shit I think I'm mixing them up

someone else is sure to know better but for sure jarrett bitched about it and steered clear as soon as he could; i thought corea was playing electric in one of his own bands well enough past this?

Things to remember:

- Miles in the Sky didn't sell very well at the time; it was kind of a forgotten album for a lot of years
- In a Silent Way was a breakthrough because it was where rock critics started paying attention, and (then as now) very few of them journeyed backwards to contextualize what they were hearing

Generally speaking, I agree that there's a clear evolutionary process going on, with the big leap being the introduction of electric guitar all the time. Prior to IASW, Miles had only had guitar on Miles in the Sky, and even there it was George Benson. The other, weirder track with guitar - "Water on the Pond," IIRC - was left in the vault until the mid '70s. But when McLaughlin joined the band, everything changed. The rhythms, the compositions, everything.

Jarrett hated the electric keyboard and never played one again after leaving Davis's band.

There's a great documentary called Miles Electric: A Different Kind Of Blue where a number of Miles' sidemen from his electric period are interviewed. Jarrett, as noted, whines about how much he hates electric keyboards. Hancock initially scoffs when Miles directs him to play a Rhodes -- "You want me to play that toy?" -- but then grows to love it. Corea jumps immediately into stacking ring modulators and Echoplexes on top of his Rhodes, so he apparently had no aversion to it.

why did jazz dudes hate the fender rhodes initially, was Miles really the first to bring it in?

I think it was just the usual "that's, like, selloutsville, daddy-o" stuff. Cannonball Adderley had a hit with "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" which featured Joe Zawinul on electric piano -- a Wurlitzer rather than a Rhodes -- and I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some level of professional jealousy/resentment.

Miles Electric: A Different Kind Of Blue where a number of Miles' sidemen from his electric period are interviewed. Jarrett, as noted, whines about how much he hates electric keyboards

yeah thx this is what I was thinking of

Don't forget about all the Hammond organ-led jazz trios from the late '50s/early '60s on. Electric pianos were probably viewed by many as a combination of dinky/toylike and downmarket - not forward-looking music, but shit for drunks in bars to listen to.

It's the difference between an acoustic guitar and electric. Acoustic instruments are much more touch sensitive and there is much greater range in the sensitivity.

that is a very weird thing to argue about electric vs. acoustic guitar. I mean, electric guitars are more sensitive to touch by their very nature - they're amplified.

But it depends on the sound from the pickup and amp, not necessarily on the fingers on fretboard.

You do some big fast run on an electric guitar that has a real compressed signal, it's much easier to make all the notes run out clean. On an acoustic, that clarity is much more in players hands.

i have this on repeat in my car right now. the "in a silent way" section sounds like the calm beautiful morning after a massive riot. i.e. this morning. i'm so sad.

I was revisiting the Complete In A Silent Way Sessions when I came across this frustrating bit from Bob Belden's liner notes where he discusses four brief "interludes" recorded at the November 12, 1968 session for the tune "Splash":

The unissued "interludes" are something of a mystery. They are only a few "cue" length introductory phrases, having nothing to do whatsoever with any tracks that Miles had recorded up to this point. Herbie is on electric harpsichord and Chick is on organ, and these snippets do have a flavor of Sgt. Pepper's. These interludes are just fragments of something; perhaps they were just test recordings for Miles to hear. They are not included in this set.

Maybe I sound ungrateful/entitled, but I think it's bad form to tantalizingly describe these interludes as having "a flavor of Sgt. Pepper's" and then immediately follow that up with something to the effect of "too bad for you, you're never gonna hear them lol." Am I right that they still haven't been released?

Yeah, I don’t think those ever came out. It’s definitely somewhat dickish to mention those without any explanation as to why they’re not included. Miles supposedly didn’t want any of his unreleased material to come out anyway, according to Teo Macero, so it can’t be put down to “Miles wasn’t happy with these.” I know that the reissue/boxed set program played fast-and-loose with the terminology: the Complete Bitches Brew Sessions set is nothing of the sort. Unlike the IASW set, it doesn’t include the unedited takes of what would be assembled later. So Belden probably just excluded those “interludes” because they spoiled the flow of the box, and/or stuck out as jarringly different to the rest of the set.