no boys allowed in the room!!!!

Well sometimes they do it to "win" an emotional manipulation contest with someone they want to hurt very, very much, using such tools as angry stalker fanboys.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, February 13, 2015 11:24 AM (1 minute ago)

no doubt. I just don't have that instinct/impulse -- the initial exposure would just be too humiliating for me -- i understand manipulation, and revenge, but i just find public humiliation utterly repellent

Hahahahahahahahahaha that is amazing

Sorry, sarahell! That wasn't meant to be didactic up there, I was more like being fatalistic about how horrible the internet and its angry, insecure male minions can be to women under these conditions.

cillian murphy is all yours ladies

here's a q - is there a deprogramming course for misogyny?

for internalized misogyny? or like to deprogram men

the former, not related to just men

not limited to men, i mean

or like a Patriarchal Damage Repair Course?

Take two bell hooks and call me in the morning.

I was thinking more of a guided thing, with space for the student to respond and reflect in a controlled atmosphere, with help. A lot of people don't deprogram themselves. I recently saw a thing advertised called a Self-Love Course that promised to help women (I think it was for women, it was in a link someone posted from everydayfeminist dot com or something like that) silence their toxic inner voices and I was wondering if a similar thing existed for people who need to shed emotional scar tissue caused by prolonged/internalized belief in harmful patriarchal values.

if you find something like that, let me know

I...don't know. I don't know if mainstream feminism has been really great in recent erm decades? at finding that...motivation of love? self-love and acceptance through study and contemplation or however you'd describe that.

Consciousness raising?

I usually call it "Listening to bell hooks interview Chimananda Ngozi Adichie while reading radical body acceptance blogs" but that's just what works for me.

this is it
http://everydayfeminism.com/everyday-self-love/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=ad&utm_content=ES-Course&utm_campaign=Home-ES-Ad

(lol i thought it was about a different kind of self-love at first but after reading the bullet points, it's more what you describe)

i'm talking about something like this course but not for self-esteem or body stuff or negative self-talk as much as the internalized beliefs we associate with patriarchal values. and with help or guidance because not everyone is an autodidact.

i don't seek this sort of assistance, i was just wondering if such a thing existed

Yeah idk. I think a lot of women don't realize they're programmed, or don't feel the need to undo it bc they're happy enough with where they are in life with those messages, so the market isn't as big as it could be bc a lot of the need is hidden. There are prob some women who seek out feminist therapists to do this kind of thing?

i think men and women both feel that way tbh

HELLO did someone call my name with regards to a Welsh hottie upthread? Drog yw genev, yth esen vy yn Klass Kernewek.

I actually feel quite relieved reading this thread because I'm sorry; that suicide note just made my shoulders go up around my ears (as they say on Captain Awkward). Not just the contents of it (and the emotional manipulation therein) but the methods of dispersal - and y'know, there are press guidelines about how to report suicides and suicide attempts - but all that goes out the window when someone announces it so publicly? Not to speak ill of someone who is obviously ill and in pain, but... I just had this very strong sense of "this is only one side of the story here" and something just tweaking all of my "something is very wrong here" but thank you people for articulating what it was that was bothering me.

Coincidentally, I was just reading an Ann Friedmann (sp?) thing about Self Love on Tumblr.

I put out the Welsh Hottie Branwell Signal! I don't know what the Welsh part of your post means, but I'm assuming it means something like, "Heck yeah that is one fine looking Welshman."

And he's 28, which is young but not like "make me feel like a filthy old lady" young. And so brooding.

Oh God, I am so glad this conversation happened because I read the note earlier and found it fucking awful and manipulative and horribly abusive but then I thought maybe it was only me and I've been sitting here all day wondering if I was fucked up for thinking that. So, thank you. Also, I really helps he gets help/better.

And I feel a bad even talking about it because it's such a personal thing but it's been bothering me tremendously all day.

Do you like looking at handsome brooding Welshmen? It helps, and I've got a good one.

Who doesn't?

(He is indeed v good.)

(also lol and <3)

I think I've talked before about a friend of mine who works in Probation who was trying to put together a series on "Detoxifying Masculinity and Your Fucked Up Ideas About Women" for male offenders, but that's probably outside the remit of what you're looking for.

But yeah, feminist therapy and that sort of thing. It's hard, when something is internalised on every level.

I am a basically shitty human being for this, but: I have a friend who is currently doing exactly that, doing a feminist form of therapy to repair a lot of damage and I can see her, on social media, trying to articulate things about herself, and practising self affirmation. And *I* find it hard not to react negatively to that. Like, part of it is that whole "ugh, girls and their ~blessed~ affirmations, ugh, gross" - even when I *know* this is therapy to get over some shit, there's still that kneejerk asshole that kicks in, wanting to deny it. Not to mention the whole British "how dare you think you're better than you are" reflex. Kinda peeling that back, and seeing this as something she's working on, and is healthy for her. If it's like that watching someone else do it, I can't even imagine how I'd react to trying to do it myself.

But I dunno, let's talk about crushes and Cillian Murphy's cheekbones and who *is* that Welsh boy and actually ugh I hate to admit it but I'm still nursing my HAAAAAATE crush, like, what on earth does it mean to have a massive throbbing crush on someone you loathe and think is terrible and ugly and ~annoying~ in every sense of the word but my god you want to smash them into subatomic particles crush. UGH.

I think I've talked before about a friend of mine who works in Probation who was trying to put together a series on "Detoxifying Masculinity and Your Fucked Up Ideas About Women" for male offenders, but that's probably outside the remit of what you're looking for.

i dunno that's almost exactly what i was talking about! c

not for prisoners necessarily but in terms of content and delivery

we are all prisoners iirc (lol/sob)

That fellow is Aneurin Barnard, Welsh actor, and excellent object of a Google image search.

I need him to star in a BBC period piece involving cravats, like stat.

Sort of on the seminar topic, this is a fascinating book, even as it is really kind of bleak - http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656

haha carl agatha, no, that just means "sorry, I didn't see it, I was in Cornish class."

Hot damn, this is one fine welshman would be... Splann! Ass yw Kembro pur vrav!

...his name is Aneurin, too? God I love that name.

In 2011 he starred in Hunky Dory alongside Minnie Driver. The film is set in 1976 during the hottest summer recorded, in a school in Swansea. Barnard played the role of Davy and in the film sang songs from the era such as David Bowie's "Life on Mars" and The Who's "Love Reign O'er Me".

I need to stop because my beloved husband lurks on this thread, but I'm just putting that here for no reason.

You're putting it there because I need to know these things, clearly! Let your conscience rest easy, and your husband too.

Feel my PAAAAAAAIIIIIIN. Feel the weight of my HAAAAAAAAATE-crush.
http://media.wix.com/ugd/af1bd4_bc8a0f962db54d27a4e9f7b881cfc579.pdf
I want to punch the smirk off his face*.

*by "punch" I clearly mean not in the awful DV sense of the word but just bear the general heat of my frustration and annoyance and the martyr-saint who is my namesake was known for out-arguing 1000 philosophers who were sent to confound her by evil pagans and basically that is what I want to do to him.

That's a fine looking dude.

That book WHY DOES HE DO THAT? INSIDE THE MINDS OF ANGRY AND CONTROLLING MEN is really good. Like, reeeeeeeally good.

NO HE IS NOT. HE IS HIDEOUS. AND TERRIBLE. AND ANNOYING.

x-post

Just based on that picture and his little hair swoop, but I trust you that he is hideous and terrible and annoying and should be banished.

He should totally be banished. To my vagina.

irl LOL

I can talk about Cillian Murphy's cheekbones all day, they're so dreamy.

So what do we think, Wuthering Heights with Aneurin Barnard as Heathcliff and Cillian Murphy as Hindley?

I don't know, what happens in Wuthering Heights?

Well, it's kind of a terrible story of a bunch of people who live in the moors in northern England and absolutely fucking HATE each other and are shockingly cruel to each other in ways both petty and grand, that for some reason has been recast as a love story, BUT it's a great role for a broodingly handsome Welshman and there damn sure would be cravats.

It's a really good book, too, as long as you go into it with 1) an org chart to differentiate all of the similarly named characters and 2) knowledge that this ain't a love story.

I think I'll pass but let me know if like Guy Richie or someone directs it and puts in more car chases and making out? Thx <3 <3

But... cravats.

Mmmmm...nah. I like 'em scrappier than that.

okay okay okay how about a Baz Luhrmann-esque Wuthering Heights re-imagining with cravats AND car chases!

You and Branwell should be absolutely bursting about there being moors and brooding, though! Happy for u