no boys allowed in the room!!!!

TOTALLY AGREE dude pulled 150% awfulness.

Kind of just feeling a Hindenburg "OH THE HUMANITY" think except of course especially awful for wife and kids b/c women/children/nonrockstar status vs ohcooldudewithaudience power.

I think before even addressing the domestic violence pov, at the very least your suicide note shouldn't be your revenge tool. Once you're there (and full speed ahead too), that's the end of my interest in the matter. I've tried to keep friends alive; I might have even succeeded once or twice. I've also straight walked away from people with the knowledge that I could 100% turn off my sense of responsibility for their welfare because of their actions.

One of the nicest things about not being young anymore is that my boundaries are a lot better.

at the very least your suicide note shouldn't be your revenge tool.

it's not that great a tool though, presumably you are dead afterwards, and the other person gets to live and get over you.

BOY YEAH isn't that true??? It's fantastic. I'm also a lot better at being assertive as necessary.

io, have you watched the Stars series The White Queen? About Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Neville, and Margaret Beaufort and the War of the Roses? It's on Amazon Prime streaming if you have access to that. But it's AMAZING and full of awesome models for exerting a certain kind of female authority, even in the face of powerlessness, that is really inspiring. Also amazing costumes. Also the dude who plays King Richard III (lol spoiler?) is so cute omg.

xp

yeah the first time this happened to me i was 17 and i learned a lot
the second time was very different and not analogous outside of the threat of suicide
all of this was a very long time ago too

I was in my teens the first time I had a dude threaten suicide to try to get me to do something (not dump him I think) and before he said that, I was feeling really bad about it, like awful, and then he said that and it was like the door to my feelings area slammed shut and I was like, "Get the fuck out of my face forever."

i should just bow out of this discussion, as I feel like the odd one out in terms of my opinions and experiences.

i identify more with a suicidal person and victim of infidelity, and my experience of relationship abuse was 20 years ago and relatively minor

I don't mean to derail but if anybody involved in this heavy convo wants to take a moment:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/15/f0/45/15f045f26e10d60c81a4fb384700559c.jpg
https://40.media.tumblr.com/abecf5e908182c31ffbea6ec892bb2cd/tumblr_n26v3uYRlM1sfyn7co1_400.jpg
http://media.tumblr.com/ee77ecd41ef362ebe158ae554cfe1835/tumblr_inline_mtsnipnbKU1s1xn3j.jpg

He's Welsh. Where's Branwell?????

i should just bow out of this discussion, as I feel like the odd one out in terms of my opinions and experiences.

i identify more with a suicidal person and victim of infidelity, and my experience of relationship abuse was 20 years ago and relatively minor

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Friday, February 13, 2015 7:09 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well in my case this dude was very very much using a suicide threat as a tool of manipulation. He was no more suicidal than I was. and it is a common tool of abusive, manipulative people.

Pajo is more complex because that is a freaking manipulative letter but he was clearly also suicidal. But given the way things go for women on the internet these days, posting a public accusation like that is basically like calling down hellfire on his ex, and that's pretty inexcusable.

oh yeah there are lots of people threatening her and calling her slut on the comments of his instagram ad for the note

god that's horrible
i think the thing about it that made me the most sad (aside from the obvious) was his warped notion of love

Yeah and if she wasn't expecting that and hasn't taken steps to protect her identity, and especially if the MRA monsters get wind of this, they'll post her physical address and do god knows what else.

Here's a pretty upsetting rundown of the kinds of things they do, with a heaping helping of trigger warnings - http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/01/27/7-tactics-of-highly-effective-harassers-how-a-voice-for-mens-internet-hate-machine-works/

My reading of the letter is that he only hit her once

no care evar

xxxxp Oh dear he is rather adorably broody.

I only have eyes for Cillian Murphy at this moment in time though. The dirt, the blood, the wrinkles and smile lines he's developing--every. thing.

http://d1oi7t5trwfj5d.cloudfront.net/b4/1f/88f322d640acbc25ac3a86df701e/cillian-murphy-peaky-blinders.jpg

oh yeah there are lots of people threatening her and calling her slut on the comments of his instagram ad for the note

― jello my future biafriend (roxymuzak), Friday, February 13, 2015 11:15 AM (4 minutes ago)

oh lord, i hadn't thought about those implications -- what carl said upthread about the use of the internet. sorry for being so dense.

i still don't understand why people make things like this public.

Well sometimes they do it to "win" an emotional manipulation contest with someone they want to hurt very, very much, using such tools as angry stalker fanboys.

oh i loved cillian murphy when 28 days later came out. there was a silly 1p3 thread about this and i got hate mail from a random googler

I quit my job and married Cillian Murphy

Well sometimes they do it to "win" an emotional manipulation contest with someone they want to hurt very, very much, using such tools as angry stalker fanboys.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, February 13, 2015 11:24 AM (1 minute ago)

no doubt. I just don't have that instinct/impulse -- the initial exposure would just be too humiliating for me -- i understand manipulation, and revenge, but i just find public humiliation utterly repellent

Hahahahahahahahahaha that is amazing

Sorry, sarahell! That wasn't meant to be didactic up there, I was more like being fatalistic about how horrible the internet and its angry, insecure male minions can be to women under these conditions.

cillian murphy is all yours ladies

here's a q - is there a deprogramming course for misogyny?

for internalized misogyny? or like to deprogram men

the former, not related to just men

not limited to men, i mean

or like a Patriarchal Damage Repair Course?

Take two bell hooks and call me in the morning.

I was thinking more of a guided thing, with space for the student to respond and reflect in a controlled atmosphere, with help. A lot of people don't deprogram themselves. I recently saw a thing advertised called a Self-Love Course that promised to help women (I think it was for women, it was in a link someone posted from everydayfeminist dot com or something like that) silence their toxic inner voices and I was wondering if a similar thing existed for people who need to shed emotional scar tissue caused by prolonged/internalized belief in harmful patriarchal values.

if you find something like that, let me know

I...don't know. I don't know if mainstream feminism has been really great in recent erm decades? at finding that...motivation of love? self-love and acceptance through study and contemplation or however you'd describe that.

Consciousness raising?

I usually call it "Listening to bell hooks interview Chimananda Ngozi Adichie while reading radical body acceptance blogs" but that's just what works for me.

this is it
http://everydayfeminism.com/everyday-self-love/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=ad&utm_content=ES-Course&utm_campaign=Home-ES-Ad

(lol i thought it was about a different kind of self-love at first but after reading the bullet points, it's more what you describe)

i'm talking about something like this course but not for self-esteem or body stuff or negative self-talk as much as the internalized beliefs we associate with patriarchal values. and with help or guidance because not everyone is an autodidact.

i don't seek this sort of assistance, i was just wondering if such a thing existed

Yeah idk. I think a lot of women don't realize they're programmed, or don't feel the need to undo it bc they're happy enough with where they are in life with those messages, so the market isn't as big as it could be bc a lot of the need is hidden. There are prob some women who seek out feminist therapists to do this kind of thing?

i think men and women both feel that way tbh

HELLO did someone call my name with regards to a Welsh hottie upthread? Drog yw genev, yth esen vy yn Klass Kernewek.

I actually feel quite relieved reading this thread because I'm sorry; that suicide note just made my shoulders go up around my ears (as they say on Captain Awkward). Not just the contents of it (and the emotional manipulation therein) but the methods of dispersal - and y'know, there are press guidelines about how to report suicides and suicide attempts - but all that goes out the window when someone announces it so publicly? Not to speak ill of someone who is obviously ill and in pain, but... I just had this very strong sense of "this is only one side of the story here" and something just tweaking all of my "something is very wrong here" but thank you people for articulating what it was that was bothering me.

Coincidentally, I was just reading an Ann Friedmann (sp?) thing about Self Love on Tumblr.

I put out the Welsh Hottie Branwell Signal! I don't know what the Welsh part of your post means, but I'm assuming it means something like, "Heck yeah that is one fine looking Welshman."

And he's 28, which is young but not like "make me feel like a filthy old lady" young. And so brooding.

Oh God, I am so glad this conversation happened because I read the note earlier and found it fucking awful and manipulative and horribly abusive but then I thought maybe it was only me and I've been sitting here all day wondering if I was fucked up for thinking that. So, thank you. Also, I really helps he gets help/better.

And I feel a bad even talking about it because it's such a personal thing but it's been bothering me tremendously all day.

Do you like looking at handsome brooding Welshmen? It helps, and I've got a good one.

Who doesn't?

(He is indeed v good.)

(also lol and <3)

I think I've talked before about a friend of mine who works in Probation who was trying to put together a series on "Detoxifying Masculinity and Your Fucked Up Ideas About Women" for male offenders, but that's probably outside the remit of what you're looking for.

But yeah, feminist therapy and that sort of thing. It's hard, when something is internalised on every level.

I am a basically shitty human being for this, but: I have a friend who is currently doing exactly that, doing a feminist form of therapy to repair a lot of damage and I can see her, on social media, trying to articulate things about herself, and practising self affirmation. And *I* find it hard not to react negatively to that. Like, part of it is that whole "ugh, girls and their ~blessed~ affirmations, ugh, gross" - even when I *know* this is therapy to get over some shit, there's still that kneejerk asshole that kicks in, wanting to deny it. Not to mention the whole British "how dare you think you're better than you are" reflex. Kinda peeling that back, and seeing this as something she's working on, and is healthy for her. If it's like that watching someone else do it, I can't even imagine how I'd react to trying to do it myself.

But I dunno, let's talk about crushes and Cillian Murphy's cheekbones and who *is* that Welsh boy and actually ugh I hate to admit it but I'm still nursing my HAAAAAATE crush, like, what on earth does it mean to have a massive throbbing crush on someone you loathe and think is terrible and ugly and ~annoying~ in every sense of the word but my god you want to smash them into subatomic particles crush. UGH.

I think I've talked before about a friend of mine who works in Probation who was trying to put together a series on "Detoxifying Masculinity and Your Fucked Up Ideas About Women" for male offenders, but that's probably outside the remit of what you're looking for.

i dunno that's almost exactly what i was talking about! c

not for prisoners necessarily but in terms of content and delivery

we are all prisoners iirc (lol/sob)

That fellow is Aneurin Barnard, Welsh actor, and excellent object of a Google image search.

I need him to star in a BBC period piece involving cravats, like stat.

Sort of on the seminar topic, this is a fascinating book, even as it is really kind of bleak - http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656

haha carl agatha, no, that just means "sorry, I didn't see it, I was in Cornish class."

Hot damn, this is one fine welshman would be... Splann! Ass yw Kembro pur vrav!

...his name is Aneurin, too? God I love that name.